Questions about the auditing experience

[uniquemand]

She's not looking to gain that experience, Paul, only to hear other people's accounts of it.

 

[alex]

Now you're missing the purpose of the test I want to do.

1) Body thetans are IN your body right?

2) They are NOT on the surface of the skin right?

3) The e-meter and other types of similar meters specifically measure galvanic skin resistance, right?

4) So, if body thetans are IN the body why do we waste time (and fortunes) measuring skin resistance?!

Hook up the needles so you actually measure the conduction INSIDE the body, in response to an auditor's questions.

I'd really like to try this test, so please anybody in the LA area with an e-meter, please PM me.

Body thetans are NOT in your body. They are not physical.

Also the e meter is not something that measures thetans!

My fucking god man you have some wacky concepts of what scientology does.

The emeter reacts to thought. It doesnt matter where you put the electrodes, needle in flesh, gel electrodes or soup cans.

You are creating false issues, false because they are not relevant to anything scientology does with the meter.

AND IF THOUGHTS ARE PHYSICAL AS YOU CLAIM, THEN WHY WOULD THEY NOT BE ACCESSIBLE VIA SOME SORT OF DEVICE?

 

[alex]

Sorry bluewiggirl, I have been trolled and am feeding it....


Perhaps you can ask some more questions relevant to your interests?

 

[AnonOrange]

Body thetans are NOT in your body. They are not physical.

Extraordinary claim !

The emeter reacts to thought. It doesnt matter where you put the electrodes, needle in flesh, gel electrodes or soup cans.

Let's test it then. $ bet ?

AND IF THOUGHTS ARE PHYSICAL AS YOU CLAIM, THEN WHY WOULD THEY NOT BE ACCESSIBLE VIA SOME SORT OF DEVICE?

Yes they are, MRI's are used in psychological studies all the time to see how thoughts affect brain activity.

 

[uniquemand]

Devil's advocate, AnonOrange: are you claiming that MRI detects thought? Because if you are, you're making the same error that clams do when they say that meters detect thought. Neither do. Both detect changes that are a result of thought/emotion. Neither directly detects thought.

 

[Ted]

There is no trouble. One is a perfectly reasonable claim and the other is a supernatural, extraordinary claim.

Mind you, the general religious population may think that thoughts being physical is extraordinary. They just need to do a little more science.

AO, thoughts are not physical. Thoughts are thought. They might or might not precipitate physical action and/or reaction.

Both you and the people of RTC are birds of a feather. I'd love to put y'all into communication. A couple of authoritarians go head to head is quite a show.

 

[AnonOrange]

Devil's advocate, AnonOrange: are you claiming that MRI detects thought? Because if you are, you're making the same error that clams do when they say that meters detect thought. Neither do. Both detect changes that are a result of thought/emotion. Neither directly detects thought.

You are correct here about the MRI.

The difference however, is that the e-meter does NOT detect results of thought/emotion except for someone's slight changes in grip or sweat due to stress. Fear of the e-meter is why it works, not it's ability to measure meaningful body responses.

I maintain, even though I have not yet tested it, that the e-meter will NOT register changes as a result of thought/emotion as the measurement of conductivity is made though the blood.

 

[bluewiggirl]

Sorry bluewiggirl, I have been trolled and am feeding it....


Perhaps you can ask some more questions relevant to your interests?

It's okay, everyone does it from time to time. I've gotten a lot of good information so far in this thread. Let me sort of summarize what I think is going on and you all can correct me where I'm mistaken?

The cans feel smooth and generally cool at the beginning of session and warm up as things move along, except in some cases where they're kept heated. Some people feel a tingling sensation.
You can't see the needle moving.
The auditor is not always the same person but people do see the same auditor more than once.
The room is supposed to be free of distracting stimuli, such as odor (am I right in assuming that temperature and visual stimuli are included in this?)
The typical reaction when confessing something in an auditing session seems to be relief.
The emotions before auditing are typically a combination of excitement and some apprehension if there are negative things the pc is expecting to reveal.
Most people feel tired after session.
Marriage counseling consists largely of trading off the cans while airing out the dirty laundry in front of the auditor.
For children raised in scientology, the e-meter may hold some extra supernatural significance than for other scientologists, who almost universally regard it as just another tool for them to use in the practice of scientology.
The auditor is the one asking questions, but the pc is the one doing the real work.
The auditor is not supposed to have any emotional reaction to anything the pc says during session.

Some people described a disconnected feeling after intense sessions, like they'd come undone from their physical bodies and were only barely connected to the real world. They felt bigger, more powerful, maybe a little physically numb too, or tingly. Most of these feelings were positive but somewhat muted, as if the feelings were coming from a distance as well. Is that about right, for those of you who had that experience? I have done a little meditation and self hypnosis, so I've experienced things similar to that, but I want to make sure it is roughly the same feeling after the fact.


How am I doing?

 

[alex]

Devil's advocate, AnonOrange: are you claiming that MRI detects thought? Because if you are, you're making the same error that clams do when they say that meters detect thought. Neither do. Both detect changes that are a result of thought/emotion. Neither directly detects thought.

Actually a very good point!

Galvanic skin response is not thought but just an indicator of it, as an MRI's imaging of the electrochemical activity in the brain is an indication.

The correlation is there though. The machines react when thoughts happen, in addition to other things that cause them to react or indicate.

 

[uniquemand]

Changes in sweat amounts (which influence conductivity) are a direct result of emotion, particularly fight/flight reflex. There is an argument there that changes in conductance indicate that a subject which has "charge" on it (emotional connection) would cause this.

At any rate, I'm done hijacking BWG's thread. Anybody want to discuss their auditing experience?

Mine was fascinating. I experienced what are called "satori" while in session, along with confronting very dark episodes of my own life, both as a victim and a perp and also as a witness. Reviewing these really lead to a lot of illumination about myself, my motivations, and allowed me to change.

Sec Checks were a different matter. They lead me to think "auditing doesn't work", because I was resisting, it wasn't for my benefit, etc.

 

[Dulloldfart]

The typical reaction when confessing something in an auditing session seems to be relief.

Confession as such has a far greater emphasis placed on it in the CofS today than it is supposed to. A typical cookie-cutter auditing program (the "Expanded Grades up to Clear") might take a few hundred hours, of which only a dozen or two might be confessional-type auditing, of the "Have you ever (committed this specific bad action)?" type. The rest of it involves different procedures.

Paul

 

[alex]

It's okay, everyone does it from time to time. I've gotten a lot of good information so far in this thread. Let me sort of summarize what I think is going on and you all can correct me where I'm mistaken?

The cans feel smooth and generally cool at the beginning of session and warm up as things move along, except in some cases where they're kept heated.
Actually they come up to temperature in seconds and really it is necessary that they do before the auditing is started. Some auditors have a heating pad to keep them warm, but that is silly in my opinion as they warm up so easily in hand....

Some people feel a tingling sensation.
You can't see the needle moving.

You are seated opposite to the auditor as in them on oneside of a desk and you the other, and usually the meter and the paper for the notes from the session, are shielded by a perhaps 10 inch high and across the work surface shield, usually made of wood and at an angle with a "stop" block on the bottom, so the auditor can place a book facing you so you can read references when needed.

It is important that you not be distracted by the auditor taking notes and operating the meter, you dont see the meter at all or the auditors hands and such...

The auditor is not always the same person but people do see the same auditor more than once.

Frequently you would have the same auditor, usually for a certain program or series of "intensives", but auditing takes place over years and at different locations depending on the level. So it would be highly unlikely to have the same auditor from beginning up through the OT levels.


The room is supposed to be free of distracting stimuli, such as odor (am I right in assuming that temperature and visual stimuli are included in this?)

Ususally there is some cheesy poster or forest scene "painting" on the wall. Many auditors decorate their rooms, they are not sterile, and some even have windows, but not often.

The typical reaction when confessing something in an auditing session seems to be relief.

Very much so

The emotions before auditing are typically a combination of excitement and some apprehension if there are negative things the pc is expecting to reveal.

Most people feel tired after session.

I usually feel envigorated. But tired is a possiblility if you were working on some difficult stuff ...


Marriage counseling consists largely of trading off the cans while airing out the dirty laundry in front of the auditor.

For children raised in scientology, the e-meter may hold some extra supernatural significance than for other scientologists, who almost universally regard it as just another tool for them to use in the practice of scientology.

The auditor is the one asking questions, but the pc is the one doing the real work.

Important point. Yes.

The auditor is not supposed to have any emotional reaction to anything the pc says during session.

Yes. To do so would be "evaluation". See invalidation and evaluation..see
http://www.doctrinalauditing.org/page01.htm for the "Auditors Code" which is relevant

Some people described a disconnected feeling after intense sessions, like they'd come undone from their physical bodies and were only barely connected to the real world. They felt bigger, more powerful, maybe a little physically numb too, or tingly. Most of these feelings were positive but somewhat muted, as if the feelings were coming from a distance as well. Is that about right, for those of you who had that experience? I have done a little meditation and self hypnosis, so I've experienced things similar to that, but I want to make sure it is roughly the same feeling after the fact.

Some folk experience a literal out side the body effect, seeing stuff from a location remote from the body...I dont think it is so much a disconnected feeling but a hyper aware feeling, both out of body for those who experience it and still in the body for others.


How am I doing?

http://www.scientology.org/#/inside_scn_church this video has a brief scene of auditing....

 

[alex]

Here is a video of auditing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3-A_xpzOE4

(Church produced)

Notice how the lid to the emeter is placed to hide the auditors note taking from the PC? But more common is a larger shield what hides both the meter and notes.

Although most auditing rooms are much smaller, little office spaces, maybe 10' x 12', not the open space shown.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOlteNk0UkI&feature=related

is realistic. Actual auditing in the freezone...although just very basic intro stuff clearing words... Note the folder used as a shield....

 

[Dulloldfart]

Notice how the lid to the emeter is placed to hide the auditors note taking from the PC? But more common is a larger shield what hides both the meter and notes.

Really? I thought those chunky things got eliminated in the mid-80s because they operate as a barrier between the pc and the auditor, and all auditors used the lids now. Or maybe one or two thin file folders leaning against the meter and with the meter stand on the other flap of the folder(s).

Paul

 

[Nomad]

So, I mentioned in another thread that I'm working on a writing project. It's a piece of dystopian fiction with a very thinly veiled Scientology stand in. Not being an ex-scientologist myself, there are some things that I feel like I need to know more about before I get into those experiences in the book, auditing in particular. So, here's a whole bunch of things I would absolutely love to know:

Let me preface my comments with the fact the experiences are over 20 years old, so have been well filtered by time, and may be a bit different than the current scene.

Was there any physical sensation you associated with the experience of auditing? The temperature or texture of the cans? The smell of the room?

I don't remember any strong sensations from the cans, my auditor normally did a good job of prewarming them so there wasn't the cold that some have commented on. The one smell that comes to mind was that often my hands were dry, and we would need to use hand cream.

What was the emotional experience of auditing like? Is there anything outside of Scientology that you could compare it to?

Some things that sometimes compare to the feeling of a big win in a session would be hiking a trail in the trees and suddenly coming out and being awe struck by the beauty, or the feeling when you finally get to doing something that you have kept putting off because you didn't want to have to face it, and when you finally do it, you feel the weight off your shoulder and even laugh at yourself for how you made it such a big problem when it wasn't.

If you ever had a secret come out during an auditing session, what was the emotional response to that? Fear, anger, resignation?

I never had a bad feelings about things coming out. Sometimes I might be a bit embarrassed by it, but then when the auditor just acknowledged the statement and went on it made it not so big of a deal. When we did follow up on it, it would tend to feel right, so I was normally happy to get into it.

When you were getting audited, did you feel more like the person auditing you was doing the work or the e-meter?

I never really noticed the meter, It was all about the auditor guiding me. In many was was ME doing the work, with the auditor in the background as a guide. You notice the meter a bit at the beginning when getting set up and checking that the hands were holding the cans well, and when you get the announcement of a Floating Needle. Other times I remember noticing the meter were: 1) when I was getting so into an process and getting relaxed that I would actually drop the cans and the auditor needing to "go visual" until we reached a point where he would stop and he would direct me to pick up the cans, and 2) One time when I hit something that felt like going through a major electrical shock, at the time I though I was going through an incident with an electric chair, but maybe it was an implantation, for parts of this I was looking at the cans as if THEY were the source of the electrocution. 3) if we needed to do an assessment, when the auditor just read a list of items looking for reads, that would bring the meter back into focus.

On the other hand, when on course and doing drills or a bit of co-audit, sometimes the other student made the e-meter really seem like a part of the session.

Did you have any positive experiences with auditing? How did it feel during the session and afterward?

Normally I came out of a session feeling very good and in control of myself.

Who did your auditing? Was it typically one person, or a team? Did you get to know your auditor(s) well? Did you have any relationship outside of the auditing sessions? Would you describe the relationship with them (even if it was just through the auditing sessions) as being more equal or more of a teacher/student dynamic?

Almost all of my sessions were with the same auditor. (The mission I was working with only had 2, and one was busy being the course director, she might have done an occasional repair if needed). I would talk to him sometimes out of session, but never got really close. Out of session he never made me feel lessor, but seemed genuinely interested in seeing me improve. In session he was more of a guide than a teacher. Leading me to things and having me do them.

What were your feelings towards the e-meter? Fear, resentment, appreciation? Was it a joke? Do you think people's responses to it would be different if they were born into scientology?

The e-meter was a tool. Most of the time I didn't feel much about it. At the end when things weren't going as well and most of the metered actions were listings and Sec Checks, I was getting a bit frustrated at it, as in why wasn't it finding what was the problem.

 

[clamicide]

Really? I thought those chunky things got eliminated in the mid-80s because they operate as a barrier between the pc and the auditor, and all auditors used the lids now.

Paul

Plus, the PC gets to see the lovely Quantum meter shield and reinforce that nobody would be caught dead using a 'lesser meter' now. Run to the bookstore and get yours now! Balancing the heavier vols on the meter shield could be a pain sometimes....making sure you didn't send the shield scooting across the desk was always fun.

 

[uniquemand]

Confession as such has a far greater emphasis placed on it in the CofS today than it is supposed to. A typical cookie-cutter auditing program (the "Expanded Grades up to Clear") might take a few hundred hours, of which only a dozen or two might be confessional-type auditing, of the "Have you ever (committed this specific bad action)?" type. The rest of it involves different procedures.

Paul

I know what you're saying, Paul, but I'd like to make a point. Even when a person isn't "confessing a withhold/overt", when auditing, they ARE confessing. Any time you are telling someone what happened to you, or what you have done in your life (Flow 2 in R3RA, for instance), that's confession.

 

[bluewiggirl]

Okay, one more big question. How were sec checks different from auditing? Were you warned ahead of time that you were going in for a sec check, or would they ambush you with questions? Was it like going through security at an airport (from an emotional standpoint) or like the FBI banging on your door? What sort of things led to a sec check and how often did you find yourself having them? Did you have negative emotional reactions to your auditor while going through a sec check, or did those feelings get pushed up the command lines or onto yourself (if you had any bad feelings at all)? Have you ever had something said during an auditing session or sec check used against you at a later date, and if so how deeply did the feelings of betrayal hit you?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

So, a couple people mentioned that there are actual situations where auditing is not one-on-one, which I'd never actually heard of. What sort of other patterns are there? Would couples be able to audit together, like couples counseling? The only experience I really have to relate back to auditing is conventional therapy, so I'm sure my ideas on it are a little off.

The other thing is group processing where a Scientology minister gives auditing commands to a group of people. Such sessions are very short and most people really like them.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Okay, one more big question. How were sec checks different from auditing? Were you warned ahead of time that you were going in for a sec check, or would they ambush you with questions? Was it like going through security at an airport (from an emotional standpoint) or like the FBI banging on your door? What sort of things led to a sec check and how often did you find yourself having them? Did you have negative emotional reactions to your auditor while going through a sec check, or did those feelings get pushed up the command lines or onto yourself (if you had any bad feelings at all)? Have you ever had something said during an auditing session or sec check used against you at a later date, and if so how deeply did the feelings of betrayal hit you?

Depends on if they are working on Grade II or not. If they are "going up the bridge" and are working on their grades (intermediate auditing that's part fo the bridge) one of the grades (Grade 2, IIRC) deals with overts and withholds, things the person may have done that are wrong. That would definitely be something to audit out because Scientologists believe that if you don't take responsibility for your past actions that you won't improve as a spiritual being.

Sec checks are also required at other stages. I've had them as part of a security measure to make sure I was who I said I was.

And, finally, sec checks are used against people in the church whom the church is angry at. Those are the ones the critics talk about the most.