Questions about the auditing experience

[uniquemand]

Okay, one more big question. How were sec checks different from auditing? Were you warned ahead of time that you were going in for a sec check, or would they ambush you with questions? Was it like going through security at an airport (from an emotional standpoint) or like the FBI banging on your door? What sort of things led to a sec check and how often did you find yourself having them? Did you have negative emotional reactions to your auditor while going through a sec check, or did those feelings get pushed up the command lines or onto yourself (if you had any bad feelings at all)? Have you ever had something said during an auditing session or sec check used against you at a later date, and if so how deeply did the feelings of betrayal hit you?

The Sec Checker STARTS the session by telling you he's not auditing you. This is supposed to tell you that you are not protected by "priest/penitent relationship". There was no ambush, with me. It was part of the steps I took to leave the Church, on what is called a "leaving staff routing form". I paid for the privilege. The Church believes that the only reason you want to leave Scientology or are critical of the Church/Subject is that you have hidden "sins" and things you aren't telling them about. Thus, when you leave, you are "Sec Checked". I was also "Sec Checked" coming ON staff, but that was much shorter, and was basically about finding out if I was a reporter or there at the behest of the FBI, etc.

Yes, my file was given to Criminal Investigations Division during a clearance check when I was in the Army, and was instrumental in refusing me clearance. When the Army asked the Church if I had worked there, etc., they said "yes, here's his ethics file", with my "Sec Check" answers in it. It's the only way they could have known certain things about me at that time, because nobody else knew. How'd it hit me? Didn't surprise me. Infuriating, but I already knew that they had sold me out.

 

[FinallyFree]

Really? I thought those chunky things got eliminated in the mid-80s because they operate as a barrier between the pc and the auditor, and all auditors used the lids now. Or maybe one or two thin file folders leaning against the meter and with the meter stand on the other flap of the folder(s).

Paul

Nope - LA Day had "special" ones made for each auditing room.

 

[alex]

Okay, one more big question. How were sec checks different from auditing? Were you warned ahead of time that you were going in for a sec check, or would they ambush you with questions? Was it like going through security at an airport (from an emotional standpoint) or like the FBI banging on your door? What sort of things led to a sec check and how often did you find yourself having them? Did you have negative emotional reactions to your auditor while going through a sec check, or did those feelings get pushed up the command lines or onto yourself (if you had any bad feelings at all)? Have you ever had something said during an auditing session or sec check used against you at a later date, and if so how deeply did the feelings of betrayal hit you?

A sec check, techically is not auditing. It is done in HCO, with the ethics officer or MAA (master at arms), the folks in charge of dicipline if you will.

A sec check starts out with the statement "I am not auditing you".

I once had a full week of sec checking due to some things I did that were a bit outside the bounds, and we basically went through every thing I had ever done that "read", or indicated on the meter from my whole life and before. Well probably not everything but everything that came up.

I found it quite beneficial actually. It ended up with me being kicked off of staff and almost out of scientology. But I felt much better to have done it. I felt clean.

Since a sec check is not auditing, the things you say arent confidential, and can be used against you. So no betrayal there. But your choice is either to withold the bad things you have done, and probably not be allowed to continue in the church, or give them up.

In my case the person doing the extensive sec check was also an auditor and we dealt with things more on the lines of relieving me of the emotional anguish of them.

I have had other brief sec checks done in HCO that were more on the lines of just searching for "overts", contra survival things. These are usually done from a standard list.

One thing to understand is that in scientology it is believed that the repression of such things is bad for your spiritual health, and unburdening them is beneficial. To want to subvert the sec check or insist on not "giving up overts" would to be out of agreement with basic scientology beliefs....so there is no point in it.

A sec check is usually one of the first actions when routing onto a course, if you have been "off lines", or when joining staff, or if you have gave some indication that you need it, such as "dramatizing" or acting up so that you end up in "ethics". Its usually no big deal. It can feel like auditing, or feel like an interogation, but its part of the belief system, thus accepted.

The supposed intent if for you to be "clean" and thus receptive to spiritual gain.

If you want to read about another side of sec checks, read Carmels story, which contains incidents of them being used outside the intent of them as per Hubbards writings. This and other stories such as about gang bang sec checks at Int are what give sec checks such a bad reputation.

http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=141491#post141491

About half way down....example of "sec check" perverted into some evil inquisition. This is not how it is supposed to be, but an abuse and distortion of it. But it seems from peoples accounts it has happened.

Ironically I think this example of it perverted is how many outside the church imagine a sec check to be.

 

[Veda]

Has it been explained to blewwiggirl that only the beginning phase (taking months at least) of auditing necessarily involves two people, an auditor (who can see the meter) and a pre-clear (who holds the e-meter cans); while the "advanced" or "upper" levels of auditing are, mostly, done "solo," meaning that the person is by himself (preclear becomes "solo" auditor, holding rubber-insulated dual-cans with one hand), with his (LRH) materials, and the e-meter is now facing the person, and the dial (the needle reactions, etc.) is now visible to the person?

I'm not sure if that detail is mentioned in this thread.

The confidential levels of auditing are taken very seriously by Scientologists, although, if an outsider asks about auditing in Scientology, these confidential levels will be downplayed. (Pssst... They're supposed to be secret....)

This link includes the secret OT levels, plus some of the also secret "Class 8" lectures:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=204017&postcount=4

The "OT" levels linked above include both old and new "OT" levels, the levels above "OT 4" were changed after 1979. (Check sheets and repair lists are not included.)

Ron the Implanter:

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=67169&postcount=14

"Never proceed past a non-reading item. To do so can be very deadly":

http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=103577&postcount=124

As a general rule, the better parts of Scientology are publicized, and the nuttier or toxic parts are kept behind the scenes.

Security Checking is not much publicized (to "wogs" or "raw meat"), and always involves two people.

Scientology has been collecting blackmail-able information on its trusting preclears since, at least, 1960. Much, but not all, of it comes from Security Checks.

Scientology's founder, L. Ron Hubbard, a court recognized "paranoid schizophrenic" and "pathological liar," regarded all Scientologists as potential enemies, and his organization, reflecting those traits, continues the practice of collecting blackmail-able information on Scientologists.

Rank and file Scientologists are usually unaware of this practice, and Scientology PR persons routinely deny that any such practice is authorized.

 

[alex]

Bluewiggirl, us scientologists believe that we are infested with the souls of dead space aliens, and use auditing prodedures to find them and "blow" them.

Well at least us scientologists high enough to be in the know....we keep the lower ones in the dark so we can charge them a lot of money to learn the secrets.

But that is a whole 'nuther subject.

Here's a OT7 session...

http://www.torymagoo.org/ot7sess.htm

 

[bluewiggirl]

So, for the levels when you're solo auditing, or later on when you're projecting your feelings onto imaginary space ghosts, how is that experience evaluated? It seems like for the beginner auditing you have someone keeping track of your progress who can say definitely that you've gotten through something or you're still stuck on it. Are OTs just on the honor system more or less to make their progress? This is just curiosity talking at this point, btw.

 

[pollywannacracker]

Was there any physical sensation you associated with the experience of auditing? The temperature or texture of the cans? The smell of the room?

Exteriorization and a couple of times difficulty with balance when the session was finished. The cans were always cold. Well, I'm always cold, so the cans would need to be heated up for a looong time between two heating pads. The cans were okay, but I did receive some short of charge once or twice where the hairs on my arm stood up as soon as I picked up the cans. Smells? Only that of the hand lotion that I had to use LOTS of since my skin was so dry. Something about dry skin not conducting as well. The only other thing was having my hands be cramped into the shape of holding the cans. That was weird.

What was the emotional experience of auditing like? Is there anything outside of Scientology that you could compare it to?

Emotional and physical were both exteriorization. This can be hard to explain. For me, it was sorta like what I had always perceived an out of body experience to be like. I felt bigger and took up more space, but was also much less massy (lighter). The floating feeling like when you are dizzy and about to faint is also similar for me. I'll let you know about any near death experiences if I ever get to experience anything like that. HaHa.

If you ever had a secret come out during an auditing session, what was the emotional response to that? Fear, anger, resignation?

The auditor's response was totally calm, cool and collected. Refer to the Auditor's code for that. My response may have been more embarrassment but then always relief was the last thing. Not relief that I was no longer harboring a secret, but a calm. Complete calm.

When you were getting audited, did you feel more like the person auditing you was doing the work or the e-meter?

The Auditor definately. Now I was only public and really not on much training lines. But the auditors I had wouldn't fiddle with the e-meter controls near as much as the public who were training to be auditors. I quickly figured out how to "outsmart" the e-meter if you will. And this was by accident so that shows how much faith I actually had in the auditing process to begin with. Being a person of fidgety nature, I found out that if my toes wiggled, the needle would float. I also quickly discovered that if I went into a "State of meditation-like brain activity" the needle would float. Auditing acutally put me into that state fairly readily.

Did you have any positive experiences with auditing? How did it feel during the session and afterward?

Auditing, for me, was very similar to that state I achieved through meditation years earlier. Very calm and removed.

Who did your auditing? Was it typically one person, or a team? Did you get to know your auditor(s) well? Did you have any relationship outside of the auditing sessions? Would you describe the relationship with them (even if it was just through the auditing sessions) as being more equal or more of a teacher/student dynamic?

I only audited with two people, but not at the same time. My first auditor was ClassIX and my second auditor was ClassV. Both were very good. We didn't socialize outside of the org or work setting but I would definately call them more than acquaintances. The relationship between us in session was more of equal. Sure there was respect that they were so well trained. And they were very good auditors. A couple of times I had a fill-in auditor and we just didn't mesh. Maybe our personalities had to be similar for it to be comfortable enough to really look and see inside myself. The replacement auditors just didn't do it for me, so my sessions didn't seem as smooth or fulfilling.

What were your feelings towards the e-meter? Fear, resentment, appreciation? Was it a joke? Do you think people's responses to it would be different if they were born into scientology?

See one of the questions above. At first, I thought that the e-meter was this incredible thing, kinda like a lie detector. But I unintentionally discovered that I could manipulate or outsmart it to a degree. And even if I felt that I didn't have a "floating ta" the meter would show it - provided I altered my mental state. There were times when I just wasn't "sessionable" due to lack of food or sleep. I found that I could alter the meter if I altered my mind or wiggled my toes. I might have figured that my Class V auditor could be deceived, but not the Class IX auditor!

 

[alex]

So, for the levels when you're solo auditing, or later on when you're projecting your feelings onto imaginary space ghosts, how is that experience evaluated? It seems like for the beginner auditing you have someone keeping track of your progress who can say definitely that you've gotten through something or you're still stuck on it. Are OTs just on the honor system more or less to make their progress? This is just curiosity talking at this point, btw.

Its all basically on the honor system. You "attest" to the completion of the various levels. But there is really no reason to cheat, as you are paying good money to get certain results....

But also the c/s, "case supervisor", who gives the auditor his instructions on what to run in session, reviews the auditors notes on the session, the material that goes into the "pc folder", and that person makes a determination of the progress of the pc.

When a person is "solo auditing", which is done starting with the clearing course and including OT1, 2, 3, and 7 & 8 (ot 4, & 5 are done with an other, and 6 is a course basically), you keep the "worksheets" for the "folder" yourself and the c/s reviews them periodicly.

You dont project your feelings into the imaginary space ghosts.... you find other spiritual entities in your "space" telepathicly and you basicly audit them. You communicate telepathicly and also use the emeter responses to guide you.

And my previous response about dead space aliens was a bit facetious...sorry.

These entities you audit on ot3 and 7 are spiritual entities that you have mutual past experience with, and with whom you have mutual unexamined connection. It is in the realization of the connection and the unburdening of their stuck attention, that causes them to be freed from connection and influence on you.

Solo auditing on the ot levels is really auditing other spiritual entities you are connected spiritually to.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Solo auditing on the ot levels is really auditing other spiritual entities you are connected spiritually to.

Per Scientology theory. There are other explanations for the observed phenomena.

Paul

 

[Voltaire's Child]

So, for the levels when you're solo auditing, or later on when you're projecting your feelings onto imaginary space ghosts, how is that experience evaluated? It seems like for the beginner auditing you have someone keeping track of your progress who can say definitely that you've gotten through something or you're still stuck on it. Are OTs just on the honor system more or less to make their progress? This is just curiosity talking at this point, btw.

Anyone being audited is the one who is responsible for his or her progress- no matter what auditing they are getting, no matter where they are on the bridge. It's like any other therapy. The person can pretend and fart around and not really do anything and lie but why should they? They're there so that they can grow as a person. And they are spending a lot of money and time to do so.

Plus, auditing sessions are reviewed by church staff who specialize in such things. If a person isn't really participating in his or her own auditing (that he or she claimed to want and for which he or she is spending a LOT of money and time)- which is highly unlikely- staff would know and the next auditing program would be written up accordingly.

Scientologists aren't lab animals. They're not freaks. They get auditing for the same reasons some people get psychotherapy or meditate. They are trying to get somewhere. The relationship between an auditor and pc is similar in many respects to that of a psychotherapist and his or her counsellee.

Also, in any auditing, whether OT or introductory or intermediate- what one is really auditing is/are the person's considerations and decisions, not so much the incident content. So the "space ghosts" (rather unpleasant turn of phrase, if I may say so) stuff really eventually comes down to the same thing one would work on and get at in a session wherein the incident being run was a bad fall on the ice on the playground at school or a car accident, etc.

 

[uniquemand]

The main difference being that a counselor/psychotherapist knows what transference is, and avoids it, and the auditor doesn't know what it is, and cultivates it, by following Ron's instructions to the letter, creating Rondroids instead of free people.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I said "similar". And I was talking about the relationship vis a vis the way people conduct themselves, not what the differences between auditing and psychotherapy or psychoanalysis are.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program wherein Scn'ists are freaks obsessed with Space Ghost from Coast to Coast and want to fellate meters.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Now back to our regularly scheduled program wherein Scn'ists are freaks obsessed with Space Ghost from Coast to Coast and want to fellate meters.

Don't forget the thumb up the big socket at the back.

Paul

 

[ThisFenceHurts]

A sec check, techically is not auditing. It is done in HCO, with the ethics officer or MAA (master at arms), the folks in charge of dicipline if you will.

My experience was that sec checks often took place in the HGC, were done by auditors who had audited the pc on actual grade chart actions and were often referred to by those experiencing them as "sessions" or "auditing."

 

[Dulloldfart]

My experience was that sec checks often took place in the HGC, were done by auditors who had audited the pc on actual grade chart actions and were often referred to by those experiencing them as "sessions" or "auditing."

Yes. It would be a very rare org that had an MAA on post who was technically qualified to deliver a sec check, let alone who did so.

Paul

 

[alex]

My experience was that sec checks often took place in the HGC, were done by auditors who had audited the pc on actual grade chart actions and were often referred to by those experiencing them as "sessions" or "auditing."

Yes I have also had sec checking done in the HGC, but always prefaced with "I am not auditing you", but also there is similar processing in the grades....

And I have had a sec check in HCO in a class 5 org too....where its ethics officer rather than MAA...so it could go both ways...

Its supposed to be in HCO, and should. I think at Flag for instance it would be the standard to have MAA's doing it, other orgs perhaps less so...

I also found my extensive sec checking valuable, much like auditing.

Your opinion may vary!

 

[uniquemand]

The Auditor who was the "Staff Staff Auditor" at Boston Day was required by HCO to give me my leaving staff Sec Check. He had also been my auditor on all my Grade Chart actions, and was a personal friend. It was very difficult between us.

 

[uniquemand]

Sec Checking is brainwashing. It's that simple.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Sec Checking is brainwashing. It's that simple.

Remember this is bluewiggirl's thread. Even I don't get the meaning behind that post, Kev, so she isn't likely to.

Paul

 

[Veda]

Bluewiggirl, this video - up to 4:00 - has some info that may help in understanding the mental state of those who have been "set up" (not necessarily in a good sense) for the "upper levels."

Up to 4:00:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvfW...E72725850&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3

IMO, auditing is essentially a benign activity that becomes toxic and warping as the person becomes more deeply involved in Scientology.