Questions regarding Scientology vs Spiritual Rescue Technology

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
scn-srt-300x163.jpgSome of you may know that I was delivering NOTs and other standard Scientology Bridge actions in the field beginning in early 2010. While working with one client who was experiencing body difficulties from the actions of an entity, I was surprised to hear her say, “I think he is trying to help me!” That started the process of discovery which resulted in Spiritual Rescue Technology.

I asked myself if beings were trying to help us, why should we be getting rid of them as so much garbage to be discarded? OT 3 and NOTs is all about getting rid of entities by any means possible. This is not auditing in any sense of the word, it is forced disconnection and some of you will know how that feels.


Spiritual Rescue Technology (SRT) is all about rescuing beings from the incidents they are stuck in and bringing them to present time and putting them to work if they are interested in doing so. It was developed and is still being expanded with the help of dozens of friends and volunteers.


One of my clients who knows SRT raised some questions on the differences between Scientology and Spiritual Rescue Technology. The answers may be of interest to some of you. I have answered her questions on a point by point basis:


1) When people “handle” entities using Scientology OT tech, where do the entities go? What condition are they in? Have they been brought up to present time? Are they unstuck from the incidents they were in? Are they told, “Go away and don’t ever come back!”
When using Scn OT tech, the auditor or solo auditor is only interested in REMOVING entities. The entities can be scraped off if necessary but there is no attempt to bring them to present time. The auditor goes on to the next entity as soon as a blowdown occurs and a floating needle is observed. The relief may be coming from the OT as he realizes his problems came from the entity. Most entities in OT sessions are not handled or unstuck from the incidents they were stuck in. The process was continued until the point where the preOt got relief and F/Ned.
Often the entity just leaves the person’s body and hangs around in the auditing room. There were auditing rooms at Flag that were filled with entities hanging on the walls and ceilings and I resisted getting auditing from those auditors as they were not completing the auditing cycles.
We did some research recently and could sense clouds of unhandled and upset entities hanging over Flag and AOLA. Every NOTs session seems to produce more upset and disoriented entities.


2) When you’re doing SRT, how do you know if the problem you’re trying to fix is the result of an entity or the result of one of your own engrams? I know that in Scn, you wouldn’t be doing this until your own case was handled to everyone’s satisfaction and all of your own engrams had been handled (erased or just not being continuously created by yourself).
In SRT, you do not take anything for granted. If the person says the problem is coming from an entity, that is what you handle. If the person is not sure you check to see where the upset is coming from. SRT clients learn very early to identify whether it is them or an entity that has a particular thought or impulse or incident in restimulation.
Scientology processes are being run on entities and preclears at the same time. Most of the time the entity thinks he IS the preclear so the process runs well on him also. Believe it or not, all of the lower grade processes you ran were being run on entities for the most part and as long as they were not overrun, everyone got gains.


3) Are people who have completed OT VII uncomfortable around the rest of us who still have entities? Would they be uncomfortable around SRT people who have entities who are friendly and helpful?
OT VIIs come in all levels of ability and case completion. The OT has attested to “no more entities” or some equivalent statement so he or she has managed to put all of their entities into hiding or is so keyed out that they cannot “see” any entities that day and they attest.
Usually, they have trained themselves to not see entities as that would mean that they are not finished!
The ones who can still see entities do not know what to do with them and they usually manage to avoid upsetting their entities by avoiding things the entities do not like.
Any OT should be more comfortable around SRT people because the SRT people are less restimulating. There is one situation you should be aware of and that is an OT who knows he has false attested and still has entities may be upset at the fact that you do not seem to have “things” like masses or dangerous energies in your space and yet you are not an official OT! You will be missing his withhold big time!


4) Are people who have completed OT VII uncomfortable no matter where they go? There are entities EVERYWHERE! Are they AFRAID of getting “contaminated” again?
Some are not uncomfortable because they are much better off than they were before. They do not have as many entities affecting them and they are aware of that, Yes, many OTs are afraid of being contaminated again even though they attested to “All Gone!” They see themselves exhibiting strange behavior and do not know where it is coming from. Pity them because they have been indoctrinated and are afraid to talk to anyone about their fears or problems.


5) How does “getting rid of your entities” with Scn OT auditing make a person more able? I had always thought that the mysterious OT levels actually created tremendously able beings. How is Joe Blow MINUS his entities more able? This makes no sense to me!
Beings are naturally good and are naturally able unless they have some engram in restimulation. Put a lot of beings in control of a body with no realization that the others are there and they will do contradictory things like several people trying to drive a bus at the same time. Joe Blow without his entities is more able because his entities are elsewhere even if they are not handled


6) I’ve observed two people for years while they were on OT VII and after they completed it and then completed OT VIII. I didn’t notice anything different about them. Things didn’t get better around them. In fact, things seemed to get worse and they weren’t cause over it. They were the complete effect of it. People who weren’t even in Scn were doing far better than these two people were doing. Why?
Many people not in Scn gravitate to jobs and mates who do not restimulate them. They operate at their top potential if that occurs.
People with problems are attracted to Scn or psychology or psychiatry or something similar. In Scn it is now a crap shoot whether you will get help because the organization has gotten psychotic. You are indoctrinated more and more as you go up the Bridge so you are stopped from communicating as you supposedly gain more ability to communicate and you are more under the control of the organization at the expense of your first and second Dynamics. A fully indoctrinated OT is a spiritual zombie and you get this impression when you see one: http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=332. There used to be many OTs who were not indoctrinated and they are now out of the church.


7) How the hell could anyone ever be “done” with OT VII if it’s all about auditing entities like we do in SRT? Unless entities learn to avoid OT VIIs because they sense it’s unsafe to hang out around them?
People convince themselves they are done in order to escape from Flag or the ship and get back to their normal lives. There are always days when you have a big win and you psych yourself up to attest to completion. I know because I saw it all the time at Flag. Desperation can make you learn to F/N even if you are crying inside.


If you have done any SRT at all you are in better shape to create a future than any Scn OT. You, at least, know what you are dealing with and your product is enlightened entities who become your friends. Scn OTs do not have that option. They are surrounded by crippled or resentful entities that they are studiously ignoring.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
People do not have a bunch of spiritual entities around them running their lives.

However there are people who develop schizophrenia but it is just them split into pieces.

Your SRT is getting further from reality.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation



I'm really very happy to see that the "rumours of your demise were greatly exaggerated" Old Auditor, but not quite so happy to see that you are still trying to flog your "spiritual" cods-wallop ... here.




:melodramatic:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
People do not have a bunch of spiritual entities around them running their lives.

However there are people who develop schizophrenia but it is just them split into pieces.

Your SRT is getting further from reality.

Why can't they get

that spirituality has nothing to do with giving people a mental illness about pseudo-entities stuck to them which is related to psychiatry or exorcism.

:duh:
 

Queenmab321

Patron Meritorious
My eight year old daughter believes in ghosts. My eighty-four year old mother believes in a Spirit in and of himself infinite in his being, glory, blessedness, and perfection. I'm skeptical on both counts. So, tell me, how does it appear that such entities exist in the first place?

Edit:
Here's the answer my mother's catechism gives to this question:
"The very light of nature in Man and the works of God declare plainly that there is a God, but His Word and Spirit only do sufficiently and effectually reveal Him unto men for their salvation."

What an elegant circle!
 
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Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well it seems to me that El Ron is not the only person who went batshit crazy in Scientology. There is another guy posting his psychosis right here on ESMB. :omg:
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
You know, I distinctly remember thinking this up myself, a year or two ago I think, and posting it here. There was some thread about how there has been no innovation in Scientology since Hubbard died, because the Source had literally dried up, and so the CofS has been reduced to repackaging and repackaging. I piped up with the thought that it shouldn't really have been hard to come out with some truly new products; why, just off the top of my head, it seemed to me that the whole Body Thetan concept had long legs that weren't being stretched.

If I remember rightly, I asked, Why not crank out a bunch of OT levels that are all about training and harvesting your team of friendly and helpful BTs? It seemed like a really excellent scam, that would fit smoothly into the existing role-playing game — just exactly like adding "NEW: Collectible ITEMS!" to the World of Warcraft. It would be totally Pokemon. You could have one expensive level for collecting one kind of 'good BT', and another expensive level for collecting a whole new kind, and so on. There could be levels for upgrading the good BTs you already have, and levels for repairing ones that go bad. There could be super-expensive levels to teach you how to catch special, rare, super-effective Pokemons — I mean, helper BTs.

Everyone would have a blast. There'd be success stories and wins galore. You could charge a fortune.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I suggested all that pretty explicitly, in a post here, quite a while ago. I'm pleased to see someone is running with this, though still disappointed that it won't have the full-press glitz of the CofS behind it.

I don't mean to imply that Old Auditor has stolen my idea — not at all. The idea is obvious, and I'm quite sure anyone can have had it independently from me.

Now I'm revisiting it, though, here's a new thought — a way to take it to a new level. A bit of a risk, you'd want to do it carefully, introduce it slowly and quietly, see whether it really brought in enough money to be worth turning a few people off. The deal: you start selling physical items, expensive jewelry of course, with the claim that the items are somehow 'charged' in some magical way to help you attract or control some of these friendly entities. The risky downside is that this is introducing a significant shift, going from purely mental experiences to something physical. But you know, the e-meter has been a central part of Scientology for a long time. So something along these lines has to be possible. Maybe you just have to add some electronic circuitry to the jewelry. The great part is that you can still keep pushing gaudy trinkets and trophies, but now you can pretend they're really valuable, because they have genies inside. I really think it might fly, and be worth a mint.
 
You know, I distinctly remember thinking this up myself, a year or two ago I think, and posting it here. There was some thread about how there has been no innovation in Scientology since Hubbard died, because the Source had literally dried up, and so the CofS has been reduced to repackaging and repackaging. I piped up with the thought that it shouldn't really have been hard to come out with some truly new products; why, just off the top of my head, it seemed to me that the whole Body Thetan concept had long legs that weren't being stretched.

If I remember rightly, I asked, Why not crank out a bunch of OT levels that are all about training and harvesting your team of friendly and helpful BTs? It seemed like a really excellent scam, that would fit smoothly into the existing role-playing game — just exactly like adding "NEW: Collectible ITEMS!" to the World of Warcraft. It would be totally Pokemon. You could have one expensive level for collecting one kind of 'good BT', and another expensive level for collecting a whole new kind, and so on. There could be levels for upgrading the good BTs you already have, and levels for repairing ones that go bad. There could be super-expensive levels to teach you how to catch special, rare, super-effective Pokemons — I mean, helper BTs.

Everyone would have a blast. There'd be success stories and wins galore. You could charge a fortune.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I suggested all that pretty explicitly, in a post here, quite a while ago. I'm pleased to see someone is running with this, though still disappointed that it won't have the full-press glitz of the CofS behind it.

I don't mean to imply that Old Auditor has stolen my idea — not at all. The idea is obvious, and I'm quite sure anyone can have had it independently from me.

Now I'm revisiting it, though, here's a new thought — a way to take it to a new level. A bit of a risk, you'd want to do it carefully, introduce it slowly and quietly, see whether it really brought in enough money to be worth turning a few people off. The deal: you start selling physical items, expensive jewelry of course, with the claim that the items are somehow 'charged' in some magical way to help you attract or control some of these friendly entities. The risky downside is that this is introducing a significant shift, going from purely mental experiences to something physical. But you know, the e-meter has been a central part of Scientology for a long time. So something along these lines has to be possible. Maybe you just have to add some electronic circuitry to the jewelry. The great part is that you can still keep pushing gaudy trinkets and trophies, but now you can pretend they're really valuable, because they have genies inside. I really think it might fly, and be worth a mint.

"....You know, I distinctly remember thinking this up myself, a year or two ago I think..."

Silly me. Here was I thinking it was an Alan Walters rip-off....with a few megatons of super looney added.
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
Eennie, weinnie, jelly beenie, the spirits are about to speak!

Are they friendly spirits?

Friendly? Just listen!

Casper-the-Friendly-Ghost-Pictures_zps3fb7f717.jpg
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
"....You know, I distinctly remember thinking this up myself, a year or two ago I think..."

Silly me. Here was I thinking it was an Alan Walters rip-off....with a few megatons of super looney added.

I'm sure you're right, and Walters had the idea first. I'm not really claiming originality; my point was that the idea seemed obvious enough that anyone who was even half trying to flog Hubbard's cult a bit further should have thought of it.

I'm disappointed. I want to be able to buy a cheap bit of Scientology bling on E-Bay that is guaranteed to hold a trillion-year-old thetan who will happily help me find parking spaces and stuff. I'd tape it to my dashboard. That would be awesome. How come I'm still waiting? Grrr.

Get off your butt, Mr. Miscavige, sir. I need my thetan bling.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
View attachment 7619Some of you may know that I was delivering NOTs and other standard Scientology Bridge actions in the field beginning in early 2010. While working with one client who was experiencing body difficulties from the actions of an entity, I was surprised to hear her say, “I think he is trying to help me!” That started the process of discovery which resulted in Spiritual Rescue Technology.

I asked myself if beings were trying to help us, why should we be getting rid of them as so much garbage to be discarded? OT 3 and NOTs is all about getting rid of entities by any means possible. This is not auditing in any sense of the word, it is forced disconnection and some of you will know how that feels.


Spiritual Rescue Technology (SRT) is all about rescuing beings from the incidents they are stuck in and bringing them to present time and putting them to work if they are interested in doing so. It was developed and is still being expanded with the help of dozens of friends and volunteers.


One of my clients who knows SRT raised some questions on the differences between Scientology and Spiritual Rescue Technology. The answers may be of interest to some of you. I have answered her questions on a point by point basis:


1) When people “handle” entities using Scientology OT tech, where do the entities go? What condition are they in? Have they been brought up to present time? Are they unstuck from the incidents they were in? Are they told, “Go away and don’t ever come back!”
When using Scn OT tech, the auditor or solo auditor is only interested in REMOVING entities. The entities can be scraped off if necessary but there is no attempt to bring them to present time. The auditor goes on to the next entity as soon as a blowdown occurs and a floating needle is observed. The relief may be coming from the OT as he realizes his problems came from the entity. Most entities in OT sessions are not handled or unstuck from the incidents they were stuck in. The process was continued until the point where the preOt got relief and F/Ned.
Often the entity just leaves the person’s body and hangs around in the auditing room. There were auditing rooms at Flag that were filled with entities hanging on the walls and ceilings and I resisted getting auditing from those auditors as they were not completing the auditing cycles.
We did some research recently and could sense clouds of unhandled and upset entities hanging over Flag and AOLA. Every NOTs session seems to produce more upset and disoriented entities.


2) When you’re doing SRT, how do you know if the problem you’re trying to fix is the result of an entity or the result of one of your own engrams? I know that in Scn, you wouldn’t be doing this until your own case was handled to everyone’s satisfaction and all of your own engrams had been handled (erased or just not being continuously created by yourself).
In SRT, you do not take anything for granted. If the person says the problem is coming from an entity, that is what you handle. If the person is not sure you check to see where the upset is coming from. SRT clients learn very early to identify whether it is them or an entity that has a particular thought or impulse or incident in restimulation.
Scientology processes are being run on entities and preclears at the same time. Most of the time the entity thinks he IS the preclear so the process runs well on him also. Believe it or not, all of the lower grade processes you ran were being run on entities for the most part and as long as they were not overrun, everyone got gains.


3) Are people who have completed OT VII uncomfortable around the rest of us who still have entities? Would they be uncomfortable around SRT people who have entities who are friendly and helpful?
OT VIIs come in all levels of ability and case completion. The OT has attested to “no more entities” or some equivalent statement so he or she has managed to put all of their entities into hiding or is so keyed out that they cannot “see” any entities that day and they attest.
Usually, they have trained themselves to not see entities as that would mean that they are not finished!
The ones who can still see entities do not know what to do with them and they usually manage to avoid upsetting their entities by avoiding things the entities do not like.
Any OT should be more comfortable around SRT people because the SRT people are less restimulating. There is one situation you should be aware of and that is an OT who knows he has false attested and still has entities may be upset at the fact that you do not seem to have “things” like masses or dangerous energies in your space and yet you are not an official OT! You will be missing his withhold big time!


4) Are people who have completed OT VII uncomfortable no matter where they go? There are entities EVERYWHERE! Are they AFRAID of getting “contaminated” again?
Some are not uncomfortable because they are much better off than they were before. They do not have as many entities affecting them and they are aware of that, Yes, many OTs are afraid of being contaminated again even though they attested to “All Gone!” They see themselves exhibiting strange behavior and do not know where it is coming from. Pity them because they have been indoctrinated and are afraid to talk to anyone about their fears or problems.


5) How does “getting rid of your entities” with Scn OT auditing make a person more able? I had always thought that the mysterious OT levels actually created tremendously able beings. How is Joe Blow MINUS his entities more able? This makes no sense to me!
Beings are naturally good and are naturally able unless they have some engram in restimulation. Put a lot of beings in control of a body with no realization that the others are there and they will do contradictory things like several people trying to drive a bus at the same time. Joe Blow without his entities is more able because his entities are elsewhere even if they are not handled


6) I’ve observed two people for years while they were on OT VII and after they completed it and then completed OT VIII. I didn’t notice anything different about them. Things didn’t get better around them. In fact, things seemed to get worse and they weren’t cause over it. They were the complete effect of it. People who weren’t even in Scn were doing far better than these two people were doing. Why?
Many people not in Scn gravitate to jobs and mates who do not restimulate them. They operate at their top potential if that occurs.
People with problems are attracted to Scn or psychology or psychiatry or something similar. In Scn it is now a crap shoot whether you will get help because the organization has gotten psychotic. You are indoctrinated more and more as you go up the Bridge so you are stopped from communicating as you supposedly gain more ability to communicate and you are more under the control of the organization at the expense of your first and second Dynamics. A fully indoctrinated OT is a spiritual zombie and you get this impression when you see one: http://possiblyhelpfuladvice.com/?p=332. There used to be many OTs who were not indoctrinated and they are now out of the church.


7) How the hell could anyone ever be “done” with OT VII if it’s all about auditing entities like we do in SRT? Unless entities learn to avoid OT VIIs because they sense it’s unsafe to hang out around them?
People convince themselves they are done in order to escape from Flag or the ship and get back to their normal lives. There are always days when you have a big win and you psych yourself up to attest to completion. I know because I saw it all the time at Flag. Desperation can make you learn to F/N even if you are crying inside.


If you have done any SRT at all you are in better shape to create a future than any Scn OT. You, at least, know what you are dealing with and your product is enlightened entities who become your friends. Scn OTs do not have that option. They are surrounded by crippled or resentful entities that they are studiously ignoring.

Apparently you are not familiar with Alan Walter's handling of 'spiritual teammates".
Or my own BT Big Band. Or my stories of inviting BTs to live in my trees and take up residence in my blue glass collection. IF They Wish To. The BTs that I have around are all Class 8s who shared the course with me and they are happy to audit any other BTs that come along. lol.
Some of us 'SP'auditors have been friends with BTs right along. It doesn't take much training to see that 'blowing off' BTs breaks the Auditors' Code, BIG TIME, and creates anger and even hatred among BTs that are so handled.
I firmly believe that BTs are to be treated as any other PC.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh, man. That's sharp. I didn't even think of that: get the BTs to audit the other BTs.

Why hasn't David Miscavige worked and schemed for years just to finally be able to hand out a big, ornate certificate (that cost, like, $200,000) to a guy's BT ... because the guy attested to having telepathically witnessed the said BT auditing some other BT to Clear?

Now that would have been a cult worth watching.
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
View attachment 7619Some of you may know that I was delivering NOTs and other standard Scientology Bridge actions in the field beginning in early 2010. While working with one client who was experiencing body difficulties from the actions of an entity, I was surprised to hear her say, “I think he is trying to help me!” That started the process of discovery which resulted in Spiritual Rescue Technology.

I asked myself if beings were trying to help us, why should we be getting rid of them as so much garbage to be discarded? OT 3 and NOTs is all about getting rid of entities by any means possible. This is not auditing in any sense of the word, it is forced disconnection and some of you will know how that feels.


///snipped///

We are part of an conscious unlimited intelligence. Some parts of this unlimited intelligence are less aware than other parts. However, these parts are never really divided because it's all one. What you do to others, you do ultimately to yourself.

All is basically thought. That what you call spirits and entities is basically thought. Life itself is thought equipped with feelings.

And regardless of philosophy, I feel it is important that there are individuals who give their time to care for others and willing to help them.

May your star never cease to shine Old Auditor :)
 

Leland

Crusader
We are part of an conscious unlimited intelligence. Some parts of this unlimited intelligence are less aware than other parts. However, these parts are never really divided because it's all one. What you do to others, you do ultimately to yourself.

All is basically thought. That what you call spirits and entities is basically thought. Life itself is thought equipped with feelings.

And regardless of philosophy, I feel it is important that there are individuals who give their time to care for others and willing to help them.

May your star never cease to shine Old Auditor :)

I disagree.

I was in scien for many years,,,,then an "accident" happened....and I got "hurt."

I do not think "we are part of"......"a conscious unlimited intelligence." I believe we are individuals.

I believe that scien's upper OT levels have gone off the rails.....and that there are some in scien...(perhahps a cult with in the cult) that think this...that they can just "mind wise PUSH" and move into an area and take or gain knowledge. That they think this area is "up for grabs." And that a free for all, so to speak is occurring.

I disagree....

I believe they only "push" into another human being's space...and his knowledge. I believe that they are causing great damage....and really a spiritual holocaust on earth.

I believe all of scien must be stopped and shut down.

I believe that after all the decades of work with scien, that the TRUE nature of what a spiritual being and what the true nature of a HUMAN being is.......has never been understood at all.
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
I disagree.

I was in scien for many years,,,,then an "accident" happened....and I got "hurt."

I do not think "we are part of"......"a conscious unlimited intelligence." I believe we are individuals.

I believe that scien's upper OT levels have gone off the rails.....and that there are some in scien...(perhahps a cult with in the cult) that think this...that they can just "mind wise PUSH" and move into an area and take or gain knowledge. That they think this area is "up for grabs." And that a free for all, so to speak is occurring.

I disagree....

I believe they only "push" into another human being's space...and his knowledge. I believe that they are causing great damage....and really a spiritual holocaust on earth.

I believe all of scien must be stopped and shut down.

I believe that after all the decades of work with scien, that the TRUE nature of what a spiritual being and what the true nature of a HUMAN being is.......has never been understood at all.

I don't see a contradiction of your position and my point of view. I see individualism a sliding scale. You are an individual, there is no doubt about it.

But when you let go of your identity and embrace your spiritual infinity, your individual identity becomes a tiny spot and in fact completely disappears until you "become yourself" again.

I have a lot to do with people (nothing to do with counseling or such stuff though). When I speak to them or just look at them, I see them as individuals and at the same time they seem to be part of something common to myself. Often I come very close to reading their minds. I would sense what they are thinking. I would certainly know whether they are telling the truth or not, it is as easy as reading newspaper for me. It's a bit uncanny at times but then again, I always had psychic angle although it became more pronounced over the last couple of years.

What regards the Scn OT levels. I don't think they are causing spiritual holocaust, not any more at least than other activities humankind likes to indulge itself. They aren't particular useful either unless you know what you are doing and use them to address specific areas or individual needs. It seems to me that Old Auditor does it that way, whatever it is he is delivering.
 
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