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Questions To Ask Mike Rinder

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
:lol:

You're right, the best cure he could ever wish for! Also give him some perspective on life.

- jodie

Yep life here is very theta and light. Future looking bright too, best place to be to re-invent yourself and actually do some good. I do shudder at imagining Rinder speaking Spanish with his croc accent. :p
 

wolfright

Patron
The CoS ceased to exist, to my mind, the day legal failed to make the correct deal on the MSH case against LRH's instructions.

*snip*

David is a force person. I have yet to see any comment by him that struck me as having the slightest clue about intelligence. And judging by the self-aggrandizing babble on official CoS sites, his only aim is to stay in the job indefinitely. I can thus see the wisdom of his wearing bullet-proof vests at public events, because that is what it will take to be rid of him, and he knows it.

So, leaving him in place gets us more of the same, and removing him violently will kill the subject entirely.

I have 2 questions:

1) I have always wondered why MSH was not kept out of jail somehow, what's the data on this?

and

2) lets just say, hypothetically, someone put a .57 round in DM's head... just imagining here... or you know if he got sick and died... do you really think that would help? I mean, wouldn't someone else step in and just do more of the same?
 

wolfright

Patron
I guess I'd kinda feel that way too. But even if it did manage major change, that doesnt mean I'D jump right on the bandwagon. There were a lot of screwy things technically, as well as the management. Maybe the tech is correct in some ways, maybe not. I am still not sure about that. I think the environment in which it is currently used makes it way too hard to tell. Maybe self help is a neccessary thing, maybe not. (Kinda sound wishy washy here - I mean to say: Some parts of the tech were alright. But dont ever try to give me a session. Screw off. But I liked helping other people. I'd also have to have someone PROVE to me that LRH did not lie, and that someone else made up facts for him. And I dont think that will ever happen.)

That's _exactly_ how I feel. :)
 

wolfright

Patron
What I'm trying to say is that it isn't ALL David Miscavige. I mean, if he got abducted by aliens today, even if he was the cause of all ills, the damage is still done. :( Isn't it?

Funny, did you know that in ancient Rome, if an Emperor was declared a Tyrant/Dictator, ALL his deeds, proclamations, appointments, etc. were cancelled and totally un-done? It was as if you reverted to saved mode or went back in time. IF (and it's a big if) DM was the cause of many and great sufferings including squirreling tech, wouldn't it be cool if he could be declared an official Tyrant? :)
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
What I'm trying to say is that it isn't ALL David Miscavige. I mean, if he got abducted by aliens today, even if he was the cause of all ills, the damage is still done. :( Isn't it?

Funny, did you know that in ancient Rome, if an Emperor was declared a Tyrant/Dictator, ALL his deeds, proclamations, appointments, etc. were cancelled and totally un-done? It was as if you reverted to saved mode or went back in time. IF (and it's a big if) DM was the cause of many and great sufferings including squirreling tech, wouldn't it be cool if he could be declared an official Tyrant? :)

The whole SCN network is PTS to DM. Remove him and the whole thing might just collapse. We need a new order of magnitude in leadership.
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
What is left? The FZ and independant field.

Broadly much of the data warts and all is known, or at least available.

Doing OT 2 and 3 is approx $1000 each including training. OT7 requires training and C/S assistence from time to time. Is probably the same I guess.

The class XIIs are looking at levels above OT VIII.

Is there more than one in the FZ?

We don't need more carrots in the sky. We don't need another elite group presenting secret "OT levels" available at gradually increasing prices.

The FZ needs to be a place where the tech is open.

The numbers on the OT levels are a bit of a farce anyway. People are different. After OT8 the bridge becomes different for everyone. Perhaps before.

The cookie cutter bridge with its one size fits all isn't going to work. Each person's case above OT8 will need personally addressing and a program worked out with them along their own particular lines of interest.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Is there more than one in the FZ?

We don't need more carrots in the sky. We don't need another elite group presenting secret "OT levels" available at gradually increasing prices.

The FZ needs to be a place where the tech is open.

The numbers on the OT levels are a bit of a farce anyway. People are different. After OT8 the bridge becomes different for everyone. Perhaps before.

The cookie cutter bridge with its one size fits all isn't going to work. Each person's case above OT8 will need personally addressing and a program worked out with them along their own particular lines of interest.

I have to agree with Ralph about the upper levels strictly following the clients interest line.

Also it is impossible to produce correct results in a Cultish environment.

There is a point where the client knows more about their "case" than the processor. From that time on sessions and session TRs are reversed. That is the processor follows the clients instructions! :)

It is very much a collaborative team session. The processor supplies the process discipline. The client does the looking, duplication and permeation.

Rarely are correction lists needed.

It is just like herding a bunch of cats. :)

Alan
 

Veda

Sponsor
Having only recently regained some of my ability to see the future, I wouldn't want to test it on this example. I agree that the destruction of the church is a bad thing, but perhaps pointing out that this has already happened might indicate. The continuing existence of the MEST of the church doesn't a church make, as witness all the olde worlde Christian edifices dotting the countryside, unused.

My assessment:

The CoS ceased to exist, to my mind, the day legal failed to make the correct deal on the MSH case against LRH's instructions. The church by that time was already infiltrated and everything since then has been an ongoing farce. What happens to Mike Rinder or any of these clowns no longer concerns me. We are simply witnessing the death rattles of what remains of the GE, the thetan having departed long ago, despite DM's reassurance to the contrary when the IAS was created.

-snip-

haiqu

What would have been the correct deal?

Mary Sue and her Husband were both guilty as heck, and Mary Sue, when the evidence was overwhelming, pled guilty to a reduced list of crimes. Her husband, an unindicted co-conspirator, remained in hiding, and Mary Sue took the rap. For several years, Scientology lawyers stalled on Mary Sue being placed in custody, on medical grounds, and finally, when no more stalling was possible, the sentence was carried out.

If this is Ron's Orgs-type "inside information" then don't bother answering, but, otherwise, I would like to know what - specifically - you're referring to.

Thanks.

P.S. The extensive writings by Ron Hubbard, under the category of what he called "Scientology Intelligence tech," are profoundly revealing. And these were not written by infiltrators, but by Hubbard himself.

These writings, and related documents, plus Hubbard's (his title) 'Brainwashing Manual', plus certain pre-1950 Hubbard writings, are key to fully understanding - "decoding" - the secretive, and manipulative, subject of Scientology.

What's amazing is - even though most of these documents are available for scrutiny - there are those who prefer not to know, as they march toward "total knowingness."
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
The whole SCN network is PTS to DM. Remove him and the whole thing might just collapse. We need a new order of magnitude in leadership.

When Joseph Smith (who Mormons were PTS to) was off'd the Mormon church re-organized under new leadership and is today an institution.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
When Joseph Smith (who Mormons were PTS to) was off'd the Mormon church re-organized under new leadership and is today an institution.

It can be done yes. But you would need a group of stellar OTs. Question is, would they be interested or stick around long enough for something permanent to form. The COS has a big problem identifying talent and I doubt DM is looking for a replacement.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
It can be done yes. But you would need a group of stellar OTs. Question is, would they be interested or stick around long enough for something permanent to form. The COS has a big problem identifying talent and I doubt DM is looking for a replacement.

Makes sense, perhaps he does not want another Brigham Young scenario to take place.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
When Joseph Smith (who Mormons were PTS to) was off'd the Mormon church re-organized under new leadership and is today an institution.

Had there been an internet then, they would not be. They also had a 'frontier' to move to and avoid the 'gentiles'. Clearwater doesn't qualify, and, certainly not Gilman Hot Springs.

And, the Mormons have a long history of altering Dogma to better get along with neighbors. Scientology can't.

Zinj
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Had there been an internet then, they would not be. They also had a 'frontier' to move to and avoid the 'gentiles'. Clearwater doesn't qualify, and, certainly not Gilman Hot Springs.

And, the Mormons have a long history of altering Dogma to better get along with neighbors. Scientology can't.

Zinj

The Mormons have some awesome looking church buildings.

I hope you are not overrrating the power of the internet. Remains to be seen. As I suggested before South Africa would be the 'frontier'. He has the money and not too many people say 'no' to that much money. I don't know how big the internet is over in SA.

As for your second assertion, right under your nose LRH materials are being sanitized for broader public consumption. I bet OTIII will also be sanitized in the near future.

3,000 years from now all that will be left will be the infinity symbol, and lots of beautiful church buildings, although I see a great future for this planet 3,000 from now.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
The Mormons have some awesome looking church buildings.

I hope you are not overrrating the power of the internet. Remains to be seen. As I suggested before South Africa would be the 'frontier'. He has the money and not too many people say 'no' to that much money. I don't know how big the internet is over in SA.

As for your second assertion, right under your nose LRH materials are being sanitized for broader public consumption. I bet OTIII will also be sanitized in the near future.

3,000 years from now all that will be left will be the infinity symbol, and lots of beautiful church buildings, although I see a great future for this planet 3,000 from now.

I love the 2 year tour mormons go through in their teens. The COS should instate something similar to foster helping others, living a little and getting to know Teegeeak well.
 

Veda

Sponsor
LRH materials have always been sanitized for public consumption.

And there has always been a private/secret core.

Into the 1960s, this secretive aspect became official - became institutionalized - with the Guardian's Office (now OSA), and the Sea Org, etc., each of which has not-for-public-consumption doctrine.

The pattern, in Scientology, has been to become more secretive, not less.

For example, the original Fair Game policy of 7 March (misdated 1 March) 1965, was "non-remimeo" (for inside Scientology only/for members only), and described a "Suppressive act" as "actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology... Public disavowal of Scientology; public statements against Scientology" [except for covert Operatives, who can assume - per LRH Intelligence tech - any "suitable guise," but that's another story.] And "Suppressive acts" were also defined as "1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not guilty of suppressive acts." Because this seems to - and did - advocate murder and arson, the words, "not guilty of suppressive acts" were removed, for legal reasons, several months later (December 1965), and other immediately offensive lines, such as that suppressive persons "place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings and well being" were also removed - yet the (December 1965) document still delivered the basic message, in a sea of words about other things (and was still not confidential, but only for members eyes.) The original issue, in policy, practice, and "philosophy" remained in force, but was now confidential, and manifested through numerous confidential issues, Confidential HCOPLs and other confidential issues in the years to come.

As of 1993, there is yet another version (totally for public consumption/remimeo) that has been watered down even further, and is virtually meaningless, yet the 23 December 1965 version (slightly modified) is what is issued (not secret) in Orgs, and the original 1 March 1965 version remains the now original (and confidential) "sacred scripture," manifesting through many other confidential issues, still studied in confidential courses and applied by Scientology.

In other words, Scientology, rather than reforming, has become sneakier.

As for OT 3, that is part of Scientology's advertised confidential portion, and it has long been "sanitized" with recurring public denials ("Xenu, who?), but Scientology, to be Scientology, needs the psychological control that its Implant levels (Clearing Course, OT 2, OT 3) provide, and even if exposed, Scientology can claim (and does), to outsiders, and to new members, that the wording is wrong, or inaccurate, or incomplete, etc.

So, one way or another, this advertised confidential portion of Scientology remains a "secret," just as what Mormons really believe is a secret (by the way), with the difference that OT 2, OT 3, etc. are intimate physiological actions. But, as you may have noticed, many Scientologists want this stuff, accept it, and think it's cool that it's their special secret from outsiders - although they don't realize that Scientology has yet another secret layer, that dominates them psychologically, and sometimes socially, but the details of which they are not aware - the not adverised sceret part.

And it goes on.

As for "SPs," they - per even publicised to "wogs" doctrine, although one must read the "fine print" - "don't have any rights."

Scientology - in its current phase - is reducing the membership of its main front group, the one known as the "Church of Scientology," and concentrating on blackmail and money-gathering, money-laundering, Intelligence gathering, etc. - per its founder's design - it remains disguised with front groups (there are many of them), and "mental healing" in "Churches," (#1 front group) although with less "Church" members, as large numbers of members become problematic, and were/are only part of disguise any way, although they didn't (don't) know it - well, you get the idea.

Scientology - to be Scientology - must operate on the pattern of what Hubbard called (in 1955) a "psycho-political operation." It needs secrecy and all the nasty and manipulative things that go along with it - and, unfortunately, there are those who think that's just plain neat.

As the saying goes, "a psychological-political operation is a terrible thing to waste."
 

Div6

Crusader
My question(s) for Mike Rinder:

1. How many murders has DM ordered and had carried out? Full time, place form and event.
2. What dirt did you and OSA dig up on the IRS execs? (Again, full TPF and E).
3. What other felonies are you aware of that have been committed by DM and other top execs?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
My question(s) for Mike Rinder:

1. How many murders has DM ordered and had carried out? Full time, place form and event.
2. What dirt did you and OSA dig up on the IRS execs? (Again, full TPF and E).
3. What other felonies are you aware of that have been committed by DM and other top execs?

Why starting with DM?

I think the questions are good, except for the artificial limitation. And, I would not assume that Mike knows about all of them. Whether before or after 'DM'. But, he probably knows quite a bit.

Zinj
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
another area to explore

I wonder if Mike knows any hidden control lines into Scn from elsewhere? Government or who the hell knows.
 

Div6

Crusader
Why starting with DM?

I think the questions are good, except for the artificial limitation. And, I would not assume that Mike knows about all of them. Whether before or after 'DM'. But, he probably knows quite a bit.

Zinj

Because I am trying to stick to what he would have factual knowledge of, and not just "know about". There are many earlier unsolved mysteries, I grant (Susan Meister, Jimmy Mulligan, Pat Price etc) but I don't think he would have direct knowledge of them. Rules of evidence and all...
 
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