Rampant Theft in Sea Org.

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Fascinating thread. Any more theft stories?

john

Not really a story, but Hubbards obscure viewpoint:

HCO BULLETIN OF 2 MAY 1958​

BEINGNESS AGAIN

.....
It is fascinating that theft of objects is really an effort to steal a self. Objects represent selves to others. Thieves and what they steal cannot be understood by the logic of their material needs. They steal tokens of selves and hope to assume thereby another self. It is sometimes not amusing to me to be missing my lecture notes or a book from my shelf. This is covert theft of beingness.
.....
The senselessness of the items selected probably puzzled you when they were stolen. But they were identified with you. You couldn’t be stolen, so you lost your wife, your husband or your little trinket, “meaningless” perhaps to anyone but you.

A person has to discover he can’t be you before he steals your things without credit. When he discovers he still isn’t you, he damns you to all. He finally cannot be you, so he wastes you. .....

One answer to this is never be a desirable you. And never get famous. A far better answer is to understand it, for by understanding alone you can prevent it.
So now you know it. Everbody wants to steal Hubbards money (even lecture notes) so everybody only wants to steal Hubbards famous identity ("Beingness") - especially hungry sea-org members. But nobody wants to have his "body thetans". Any further questions ?
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Fascinating thread. Any more theft stories?

john
This one is kind of funny. My friend joined Sea Org after the dinner time. He saw a bottle of ketchup sticking out of his roomate's backpack. He was so hungry that the ate half of the bottle. When the owner saw him devouring the ketchup, he "went ballistic on me", as my friend told me. :yes:
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
I had never had anything stolen from me since 6 yrs old living with the little Mexican kids around my age growing up in Oakland. I lost my roller skates, my Chatty Kathy doll, my bicycle, my flocked velvet piggy bank, my change purse, and my mail containing the item on the back of the Corn Flakes box I'd sent in my allowance for. This was 1962.

I had not been around any communally shared environment again until 1981. I was at the Manor Hotel in LA taking the estates bus into AOLA every morning to get my repair. I had a gold cross, like the Scn cross that got taken off the shared dresser between the twin beds. I could not believe that as an adult, the ONLY time I got stolen from was at 'this' place.

But today, get ready, when no one deserves to have any more than anyone else, and if you do...it is because you've had unfair advantage and not because you sacrificed or practiced some management skills....blah blah blah....point being new young recruits are part of today's culture and theft is probably even worse in the SO now.

.
 
If people feel desperate or deprived enough, and/or they feel aggrieved enough and want to "get back" at some injustice, even well-socialized people will steal.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
When a person joins Sea Org, he/she is told that he is a part of the most ethical group of people. But this is a blatant lie -- theft is so widespread in Sea Org that at times it seems that you have entered the Thieves’ Paradise.

Oh man, you are so right about that.

I had some highly personal stuff stolen when on the EPF, including:

My class ring. :(
A shark's tooth that was a gift I'd had for years that meant a lot to me (still haven't been able to replace it)
My modeling portfolio

Not to even mention money, clothing, hygiene items, or all the things that were supposedly securely stored in the Parking Structure - like my television.

I literally had absolutely nothing when I left with my son - no nice clothes (not even nice jeans) no more jewelry, none of my old books, no money. Nothing - except my son, which at the time was all I cared about.
 

Gib

Crusader
I had never had anything stolen from me since 6 yrs old living with the little Mexican kids around my age growing up in Oakland. I lost my roller skates, my Chatty Kathy doll, my bicycle, my flocked velvet piggy bank, my change purse, and my mail containing the item on the back of the Corn Flakes box I'd sent in my allowance for. This was 1962.

I had not been around any communally shared environment again until 1981. I was at the Manor Hotel in LA taking the estates bus into AOLA every morning to get my repair. I had a gold cross, like the Scn cross that got taken off the shared dresser between the twin beds. I could not believe that as an adult, the ONLY time I got stolen from was at 'this' place.

But today, get ready, when no one deserves to have any more than anyone else, and if you do...it is because you've had unfair advantage and not because you sacrificed or practiced some management skills....blah blah blah....point being new young recruits are part of today's culture and theft is probably even worse in the SO now.

.

"I had not been around any communally shared environment again until 1981. I was at the Manor Hotel in LA taking the estates bus into AOLA every morning to get my repair. I had a gold cross, like the Scn cross that got taken off the shared dresser between the twin beds. I could not believe that as an adult, the ONLY time I got stolen from was at 'this' place. "


Well, I'm sorry to tell you, well you pulled it in. I hereby now decree you to one intensive of sec checks, that would be HCO FPRD style at $7000 per intensive. You no can do, I hereby declare you as PTS, we must resolve this matter, NOW. HOW do you intend to do this?
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Well, I'm sorry to tell you, well you pulled it in. I hereby now decree you to one intensive of sec checks, that would be HCO FPRD style at $7000 per intensive. You no can do, I hereby declare you as PTS, we must resolve this matter, NOW. HOW do you intend to do this?

Yes, scientology teaches that ANYTHING bad that happens to you is all your own fault due to your own out-ethics. Not only did you "pull it in", the fact that you are not happy about having your stuff stolen proves that you are "PTS to the middle class".

Unless you enjoy being labelled an Ethics Particle and spending time and money repeating the PTS/SP course and getting another Sec Check you will quickly learn that reporting theft is not a good idea. Pretty soon you start to believe it's just physical universe MEST and it doesn't really matter. This attitude makes the cult a criminals paradise!
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
I had not been around any communally shared environment again until 1981. I was at the Manor Hotel in LA taking the estates bus into AOLA every morning to get my repair. I had a gold cross, like the Scn cross that got taken off the shared dresser between the twin beds. I could not believe that as an adult, the ONLY time I got stolen from was at 'this' place.

But today, get ready, when no one deserves to have any more than anyone else, and if you do...it is because you've had unfair advantage and not because you sacrificed or practiced some management skills....blah blah blah....point being new young recruits are part of today's culture and theft is probably even worse in the SO now.

.

Yeah, in places like north Korea or the Sea Org, etc. where you're indoctrinated into believing that you're part of a servant caste and you don't deserve much. You're all sort of 'equal.' And maybe you enforce that on each other. But you also usually also think (with a degree of resentment) that the exec stratum does deserve more than you when there is so little evidence that they are really productive. So you're not necessarily a 'leveler' by any means, even if you steal.

There's also the idea that it's a great and smart thing to get as much as possible in exchange for as little as possible--money, adoration, servants, etc. Even wisdom. Scientology and other 'we've-got-the-answers' ideologies sell (in my opinion) the fragile illusion of wisdom through lazy obedience--without the constant uncertainty and tiring exertion involved in trying to think for yourself.

On stealing--it's not something I'm unfamiliar with. We use to shop lift as a sport when I was in my early teens. We'd steal playboy magazines, candy, anything small just to be able to show off the booty to each other. We didn't steal from peers though. That would have been immoral. We stole stuff from adults we were alienated from--and stores. It's probably normal (I didn't say good) human behavior. I don't know.

We knew full well that we were stealing and we had an idea of personal property, and we knew that we were taking things that didn't properly belong to us. We recognized the validity of these ideas, but they sat in the back seat when it came time to commit thrilling misdemeanors. It was mainly for the thrill. (Hmm. I've always felt a distrust for teenagers.http://www.forum.exscn.net/images/smilies/yes.gif) There was also a sort of compulsion at that age to steal stuff--a moderate kleptomania. The thrill of it again.

But what's being described here is theft from peers and members of the same tribe, and theft as part of a commercial enterprise (stealing and selling). That's mind boggling for members of a religious order even if it is a cult. Oh well live and learn.

How old were the thieves? What were the justifications you'd hear from them or use yourselves? Could SO members be enforcing on each other the idea that they are low caste slaves and therefore their possessions aren't legitimately theirs?? Was it a group thing?

john
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
I never stole from another individual SO member, but I had money stolen from my pants in Leb Hall berthing. That was one of several motivators for my future berthing overts. I can't remember any other specific incidents, but I do recall keeping vigilant guard of money and cigarettes while in the SO. I also beleive that at least some of the looting was done by non-SO kids running around the base. It must have been like a gold mine to a petty thief.
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
When I was in Sea Org, I used to buy ice cream at the Big Blue canteen.
excellent-mr-burns.gif


Ahh Yes... the canteen...
 

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This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
At Flag it was common to debit FFCI's (public's) accounts for books and pocketing the 5% - 15% book commission. Best if you closed 'em on it first, but right at Thurs @ 2:00 that wasn't always possible.:whistling: Next best was to close them later. Next best was to beg them for forgiveness when they complained.

Coffee and cigs in the canteen for weeks!
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
How long were you in the SO Demented? How long were you in Scn before joining?
3 months getting to Level 0, 6 months in Sea Org, 2 more years attending Scientology seminars but doing nothing other than that -- I was too busy advancing my real-life career,
You can find my complete Scientology story in my Bio section.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
I had most of my underwear, several pair of white shorts, and various other articles of clothing stolen whilst I was on the Apollo. By the CMO, with whom I was berthed.

Kept my money and credit cards on me at all times. Even slept with them in my pocket.

Didn't have to worry about my Passport. They confiscated it.

phenomanon
 

Tom of Helatrobus

Patron Meritorious
At PAC in the late 90s, my roommate stole my silver necklace crucifix. It had been a gift from my mother and dispite my new affilation with Scientology, I didn't wish to part with it. I noticed it missing and later I saw him wearing it. I asked him what he was doing with my necklace, he told me it was his. I could not believe it. He was raised in Scientology, I expected much more than that. We argued about it for a bit, then I told him that he knew it was mine and I knew it was mine, so he should just give it to me. He handed it back to me stating that it was some misunderstanding. I was stunned and disappointed.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Rampant Theft in Scientology!

Total Spiritual Freedom? NOPE - total freedom from having anything: money, friends, family or house! I don't call that fair exchange - I call it criminal exchange!
 

Gib

Crusader
Rampant Theft in Scientology!

Total Spiritual Freedom? NOPE - total freedom from having anything: money, friends, family or house! I don't call that fair exchange - I call it criminal exchange!


Everything hub wrote in PL's is what he hisself observed or others told him, thus he wrote a PL or statement to tell of what he could get away with, but worded it as truth for the cause, but really for hisself. Pretty smart on Hub. He was the goal maker for the "cause", and he even wrote that. he was the game maker, the rule maker. All below follow the PL. That's IMHO, and one should see if that is true or not. But, IMHO, it is true. Thus what's true for you is what is true for you. OMG
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
The staff members I knew who went for training at Flag said that theft out there was a huge problem. E-meters especially disappeared, but personal stuff also going missing. Our local org wasn't much better. I don't remember many e-meters being stolen (although it wasn't unheard of), but other stuff was always disappearing. Even the toilet paper would end up taken from the restrooms. We once had one of those 'honor system' snack boxes, and the company ended up removing it, because it never had any money in it--even though there were definitely people who put some in. I remember the guy kind of weirded out that a 'church' was the only place he had such huge problems that he removed the thing.
 
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