Rampant Theft in Sea Org.

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't intend to support the Sea Org in any way, but real military organizations also tend to have theft issues. For sure nobody is going to steal anything from their actual buddies, and probably not from any identifiable individual even from another unit. But any items that seem to belong only to some institution, like the army itself, or maybe the company stores, or certainly some other unit's supplies — that stuff is widely considered fair game. It's not stealing — it's scrounging. Or something like that.

The point as I understand it is that everybody knows the bureaucratic military hoards valuable equipment just for the sake of listing it neatly on forms, and not for any good reason that ought to be respected. So everybody considers their own clear and present needs — or prospective future needs — to be more important than the bureaucratic hoarding instinct. Every now and then some military unit really does need to stockpile something, and then it's a huge pain that everybody and their sergeant insists on snagging the stuff for themselves at every opportunity. But so it is, and has ever been.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I had totally forgotten about this. I love this place because it's bringing my memories back.

I had an entire case of CDs stolen, a bath robe, a lamp, a fan. I had a trunk with a lock on it and it was broken into. I used to have razors and bath stuff disappear all the time. It was so frustrating. I had kept money in my desk, maybe $20 (half my salary for the week) and it vanished. After that I slept with my money.

I should have stooped down to that level and stolen as well, but I could not.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
wow, this is very different then I remember things. When I was in we were making about 16 a week. some sea org members had a few things, that they brought with them in the sea org. Even in the EPF ( i did mine at FLAG) there were no stories about things going missing.

And Shirly no one was stealing from the org. This is sorta so unbelievable that it must be true. funny how things change. I wonder if it has to do with the lowering of standards for sea org members. I guess the more desperate they get the more things like this are going to happen.

I have herd stories about people blowing staff at orgs and then next thing you know they are in the sea org. I guess that is not an out qual anymore.

Seems like it would be better to have a few honest people then just having a bunch of bodies in the shop.

He is telling 100% truth. I got jacked regularly.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I'm starting to remember stuff too.

This, from what I can vaguely remember, was around 1988 or so. I found a ring. It was a gold band with what looked like diamonds around it. Being the good little staff member that I was, I turned it in to security. It was given to a blond security guard who was originally from Norway or Finland or something; don't remember his name.

Fast forward around six months. Mr. Blonde Security marries kind of a high up woman in RPR PAC. She comes over to talk to me one day and I notice a really familiar looking ring on her finger.

Yup, you guessed it. The ring I returned to Security was taken by the security guard it was given to which he then gave to his girlfriend as her wedding ring.

This done by the HCO Qual'd guy whose express job is to prevent things like....stealing. :eyeroll:
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I don't intend to support the Sea Org in any way, but real military organizations also tend to have theft issues. For sure nobody is going to steal anything from their actual buddies, and probably not from any identifiable individual even from another unit. But any items that seem to belong only to some institution, like the army itself, or maybe the company stores, or certainly some other unit's supplies — that stuff is widely considered fair game. It's not stealing — it's scrounging. Or something like that.

The point as I understand it is that everybody knows the bureaucratic military hoards valuable equipment just for the sake of listing it neatly on forms, and not for any good reason that ought to be respected. So everybody considers their own clear and present needs — or prospective future needs — to be more important than the bureaucratic hoarding instinct. Every now and then some military unit really does need to stockpile something, and then it's a huge pain that everybody and their sergeant insists on snagging the stuff for themselves at every opportunity. But so it is, and has ever been.

The military has never claimed and has never tried to show that it is the "most ethical group on the planet".
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I must say I think it's because in the Sea Org, not only are you poverty stricken you are also under constant pressure to maintain hygiene (without being given a reasonable allowance to do so). So stealing deodorant, soap, etc. is commonplace.

I think the reason items of value are stolen is because it is very much a, "you're not allowed to have more than me because we're on the same team," mentality. I think that most of the thieves think that theft is justified.

It also proves the e-meter doesn't work because I never saw a single person disciplined for theft the entire time I was in. Despite having many hundreds of items stolen from me during that time.

My dad even yelled at me because I couldn't bring back any of the stuff they had bought for me when I was in the SO (on top of yelling at me for being a dirty faggot piece of shit that deserves to die).
 

smartone

My Own Boss
I must say I think it's because in the Sea Org, not only are you poverty stricken you are also under constant pressure to maintain hygiene (without being given a reasonable allowance to do so). So stealing deodorant, soap, etc. is commonplace.

I think the reason items of value are stolen is because it is very much a, "you're not allowed to have more than me because we're on the same team," mentality. I think that most of the thieves think that theft is justified.

It also proves the e-meter doesn't work because I never saw a single person disciplined for theft the entire time I was in. Despite having many hundreds of items stolen from me during that time.

My dad even yelled at me because I couldn't bring back any of the stuff they had bought for me when I was in the SO (on top of yelling at me for being a dirty faggot piece of shit that deserves to die).

:lol:
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
I don't intend to support the Sea Org in any way, but real military organizations also tend to have theft issues. For sure nobody is going to steal anything from their actual buddies, and probably not from any identifiable individual even from another unit. But any items that seem to belong only to some institution, like the army itself, or maybe the company stores, or certainly some other unit's supplies — that stuff is widely considered fair game. It's not stealing — it's scrounging. Or something like that.

The point as I understand it is that everybody knows the bureaucratic military hoards valuable equipment just for the sake of listing it neatly on forms, and not for any good reason that ought to be respected. So everybody considers their own clear and present needs — or prospective future needs — to be more important than the bureaucratic hoarding instinct. Every now and then some military unit really does need to stockpile something, and then it's a huge pain that everybody and their sergeant insists on snagging the stuff for themselves at every opportunity. But so it is, and has ever been.
You are right about the military. But Sea Org is very different from any other institution because it is supposed to be the most ethical group on the planet whose purpose is to save the planet. :bigcry:
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
I must say I think it's because in the Sea Org, not only are you poverty stricken you are also under constant pressure to maintain hygiene (without being given a reasonable allowance to do so). So stealing deodorant, soap, etc. is commonplace.

I think the reason items of value are stolen is because it is very much a, "you're not allowed to have more than me because we're on the same team," mentality. I think that most of the thieves think that theft is justified.It also proves the e-meter doesn't work because I never saw a single person disciplined for theft the entire time I was in. Despite having many hundreds of items stolen from me during that time.

My dad even yelled at me because I couldn't bring back any of the stuff they had bought for me when I was in the SO (on top of yelling at me for being a dirty faggot piece of shit that deserves to die).

Sounds like one of the fundamental tenets of communism. Wouldn't Ron be spinning in his grave?

That wasn't very nice of your Dad to say that to you. To me it points out a couple of things:

Does he harbour secret gay feelings? Total hostility to it sometimes is used to mask one's own feelings of guilt and shame . You don't need to answer that, it's just a point for you to think on. I'm not any sort of a qualified expert, just my observations from life experience.

Sometimes fathers grieve for the loss of a son who is gay. I have seen families where they accept their son for who he is, but they grieve for the loss of a son as such, if you get what I mean. Grief can also be displayed in a highly aggressive manner. It is hard for many people to accept that one of their own lives outside of the "white picket fence" ideal. They see their son (or even daughter) as never having life, love or family in their view of a normal sense. In that case, it is their problem, not yours.

My son is and never will be quite "normal". He has mental health issues, so I often feel the same things of grief, etc. But we don't squash him for it either.

Peace Adam
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Sounds like one of the fundamental tenets of communism. Wouldn't Ron be spinning in his grave?

That wasn't very nice of your Dad to say that to you. To me it points out a couple of things:

Does he harbour secret gay feelings? Total hostility to it sometimes is used to mask one's own feelings of guilt and shame . You don't need to answer that, it's just a point for you to think on. I'm not any sort of a qualified expert, just my observations from life experience.

Sometimes fathers grieve for the loss of a son who is gay. I have seen families where they accept their son for who he is, but they grieve for the loss of a son as such, if you get what I mean. Grief can also be displayed in a highly aggressive manner. It is hard for many people to accept that one of their own lives outside of the "white picket fence" ideal. They see their son (or even daughter) as never having life, love or family in their view of a normal sense. In that case, it is their problem, not yours.

My son is and never will be quite "normal". He has mental health issues, so I often feel the same things of grief, etc. But we don't squash him for it either.

Peace Adam

I have often wondered whether or not my dad might have secret gay feelings. It does often turn out that the most hostile are the gayest.

My parents disconnected from me because the church declared me an SP for posting on this website. I will never really know how they feel about me being gay, but I could care less. I have my life and they have theirs.

I've been so much happier without them that even though it's hard for me to accept; I must accept that I am better off being away from their influence.

So honestly their opinion doesn't matter, I just added that part for contextual purposes. Mainly for people that are familiar with my story.
 

Man de la Mancha

Patron with Honors
When I was the estates sec we ran a canteen on the honor system.

When I was in estates I saw the canteen turn into a legit mini-market. I used to wonder if it would ever put George's General Store out of biz. I believe it took the grim reaper to do that, but I could be wrong (somebody told me).

When I was in, there was no honor system, and it was a money making machine. Since money was my stat, I had an interest in "making it go right", but it was the Canteen I/C who really ran the show.

I loved the canteen. It was directly affiliated with some of the best times I had in Hollywood, and I will always be grateful for that.

It really did not come across my lines and it seemed like a lot of the Sea Org members (rank and file) were really trying to make it work honestly.
Other than a couple incidents, I don't recall a lot of "SO member on SO member" theft. I think there might have been some "skimming" of SO funds, but even this was not commonplace. But who cares anyway? 36 bucks a week? Are you kidding? If a hard working SO member makes his finances, food and berthing "go right", I have no personal problem with that as long as no individual person is directly harmed. There is a certain point where it would be considered abusive, but I never saw that. The only financial injustice I ever saw (besides SO pay scale) was ASI berthing.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
In 23 years in the SO the only things I recall being stolen from me were some SO-issued uniform parts that I never wore, like a pea-jacket and and a trenchcoat. They could have been taken any time in the previous two years I had put them in the wardrobe.

Paul
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
It also proves the e-meter doesn't work because I never saw a single person disciplined for theft the entire time I was in. Despite having many hundreds of items stolen from me during that time.
Yes, the e-meter can be fooled easily, all thieves know that. Just keep your hands relaxed no matter what you say, and the needle will be floating.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
In 23 years in the SO the only things I recall being stolen from me were some SO-issued uniform parts that I never wore, like a pea-jacket and and a trenchcoat. They could have been taken any time in the previous two years I had put them in the wardrobe.

Paul

ditto. I don't remember ever getting anything stolen. Left a lot of stuff behind in various places that went awol but thats part of the peripatetic lifestyle
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
Yes, the e-meter can be fooled easily, all thieves know that. Just keep your hands relaxed no matter what you say, and the needle will be floating.

Right demented. Toward the end of my cult career I could make the needle float on any sec check question I didn't want to bother with. I would just think, 'None of your business.'

john
 

Johnd

Patron with Honors
ditto. I don't remember ever getting anything stolen. Left a lot of stuff behind in various places that went awol but thats part of the peripatetic lifestyle

Neither do I. But there are a lot of different S.O. venues and of course a lot of different times. My experience is waaay back in the 70s. Did things change when a lot of 'born into the cult' kids started going into the sea org? I understand that there was a problem with scn kids around the complex getting into crime and gangs. ??

John
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Mick and Paul,

You guys must have had a more honorable crew or you lived in smaller berthing. When I was at FLAG no one stole from me because there were only five of us in the room.

At PAC I was sharing with 30 different people so stuff vanished all the time.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I've been so much happier without them that even though it's hard for me to accept; I must accept that I am better off being away from their influence.


I have a sister who is the poster child of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I live very far away from her, haven't seen her in years, and we don't communicate.

I feel horrible that she's my sister and we have no relationship.

I feel relieved that I am away from her because she's so incredibly toxic and destroys anyone who tries to love her.

I oscillate back and forth on it.

I get it. I feel your pain.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Right demented. Toward the end of my cult career I could make the needle float on any sec check question I didn't want to bother with. I would just think, 'None of your business.'

john

wtf???? where the HELL where you guys when I was doing my e-meter drills??? Or crams... and fucking killing myself trying to find someone I could find to f/n?????:biggrin:
 
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