Ranks in Scientology?

[Babel Fish]

I remember hearing a while ago (I think it was mentioned in a Surviving Scientology podcast) that the rank of Captain (if I remember right) is the highest rank inside the sea org, likely because Hubbard was a Captain in the military. What I gathered was that although Captain is a relatively low rank in the actual military, it being the highest one in Scientology helped give sea org workers who aren't familiar with military rank the impression that LRH was a decorated war hero.

Somewhere else, I remember a former sea org worker talking about how he always assumed that the Pilots (with the pilot pins) were super important and high ranking, only to find out later that being a "pilot" actually didn't mean much.

I don't remember seeing anything on these mentioned anywhere else since I first heard it. Can anyone verify if what I said is correct, and maybe provide any info (or a link to info) about what those ranks do and what other ranks there are? Are they a status symbol in a similar way that having a clear bracelet on the base was viewed as a sort of status symbol?

 

[exsomessenger]

There is a policy of the topic. I think it is called rank and insignia Or something like that. The major thing I know about it was it directly related to your pay. A few posts came with a rank attached to them. If they wore the rank on their right arm it meant they were ship with LRH.

 

[pineapple]

Hubbard may have claimed to be a captain, but the highest rank he actually attained in the navy was lieutenant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_L._Ron_Hubbard

 

[Dulloldfart]

From memory: Captain, Commander, Lieutenant Commander, Lieutenant, Ensign, Warrant Officer, Midshipman, Chief Petty Officer, PO 1st Class (PO1), PO2, PO3, AB, Swamper.

Hubbard assumed the rank of Commodore. I don't think he ever used the rank of Captain as such for himself.

It is important to understand the concept of brevet rank. An SO member with the permanent rank of, say, Ensign, might be posted in a relatively low position, maybe a Department Head. The person holding the post of Commanding Officer in that org may hold the permanent rating of PO1 (it happens). So the post of CO of a service org accords the post holder a (brevet) rank of Lieutenant to avoid the situation of a PO1 ordering around a person far higher in rank. When kicked off the post he resumes his permanent rank.

Similarly for management positions: when I was a staff course sup at the International Training Org I remember talking to a young girl, German, fairly new to Scientology, struggling with English, who had just been made a Programs Chief and so was a (brevet) Lieutenant Commander. She was overwhelmed, poor kid.

Almost always in the SO the important factor is the person's post and not so much their rating/rank.

Paul
(23 years in the SO and a swamper throughout. Heh)

 

[JustSheila]

From memory: Captain, Commander, Lieutenant Commander, Lieutenant, Ensign, Warrant Officer, Midshipman, Chief Petty Officer, PO 1st Class (PO1), PO2, PO3, AB, Swamper.

Hubbard assumed the rank of Commodore. I don't think he ever used the rank of Captain as such for himself.

It is important to understand the concept of brevet rank. An SO member with the permanent rank of, say, Ensign, might be posted in a relatively low position, maybe a Department Head. The person holding the post of Commanding Officer in that org may hold the permanent rating of PO1 (it happens). So the post of CO of a service org accords the post holder a (brevet) rank of lieutenant to avoid the situation of a PO1 ordering around a person far higher in rank.

Paul
(23 years in the SO and a swamper throughout. Heh)

You remembered all that off the top of your head after all these years? Stuff really sticks in the brine, doesn't it?

Congrats on retaining swamper status.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

From memory: Captain, Commander, Lieutenant Commander, Lieutenant, Ensign, Warrant Officer, Midshipman, Chief Petty Officer, PO 1st Class (PO1), PO2, PO3, AB, Swamper.

Hubbard assumed the rank of Commodore. I don't think he ever used the rank of Captain as such for himself.

It is important to understand the concept of brevet rank. An SO member with the permanent rank of, say, Ensign, might be posted in a relatively low position, maybe a Department Head. The person holding the post of Commanding Officer in that org may hold the permanent rating of PO1 (it happens). So the post of CO of a service org accords the post holder a (brevet) rank of Lieutenant to avoid the situation of a PO1 ordering around a person far higher in rank. When kicked off the post he resumes his permanent rank.

Similarly for management positions: when I was a staff course sup at the International Training Org I remember talking to a young girl, German, fairly new to Scientology, struggling with English, who had just been made a Programs Chief and so was a (brevet) Lieutenant Commander. She was overwhelmed, poor kid.

Almost always in the SO the important factor is the person's post and not so much their rating/rank.

Paul
(23 years in the SO and a swamper throughout. Heh)

VWD! I'd also add that ranks are generally designated as (Admin) unless specified as (Ship) and are usually provisional upon initial issue. I have also seen ranks designated as (Tech).

I have seen COs posted without a brevet increase in rank to Lieutenant. Like all things in Scientology everything is not so organized or standard.

 

[arcxcauseblows]

interesting

compensating?

the levels for public, rank, ias levels... it's all a game, keeping people busy, giving more and more rules to follow

working toward what end goal?

a caste system that encourages corruption at the top

if you have money or your stats are up, doesn't matter what you do

no money, stats are down, if you actually need help they won't help you, degraded being, get able on your own will, no case on post not processing it doesn't actually improve case, get rich, get punished or gtfo, disconnected or disposed

higher up the bridge the more things you have to handle, your bank, others bank, billions of body thetans, flow 1234, dynamics 12345678, blahblahblah, moneymoneymoney, problemsproblems

new civilization focused on introversion and submission

 

[Gib]

I remember hearing a while ago (I think it was mentioned in a Surviving Scientology podcast) that the rank of Capitan (if I remember right) is the highest rank inside the sea org, likely because Hubbard was a Capitan in the military. What I gathered was that although Capitan is a relatively low rank in the actual military, it being the highest one in Scientology helped give sea org workers who aren't familiar with military rank the impression that LRH was a decorated war hero.

Somewhere else, I remember a former sea org worker talking about how he always assumed that the Pilots (with the pilot pins) were super important and high ranking, only to find out later that being a "pilot" actually didn't mean much.

I don't remember seeing anything on these mentioned anywhere else since I first heard it. Can anyone verify if what I said is correct, and maybe provide any info (or a link to info) about what those ranks do and what other ranks there are? Are they a status symbol in a similar way that having a clear bracelet on the base was viewed as a sort of status symbol?

To answer your questions, because I had them as well, the only thing I have found through research is what Hubbard told Heinlein in a personal letter to Heinlein pre Dianetics release, or 1949. I made a post about it here:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...sicientology&p=1058062&viewfull=1#post1058062

Basically, if one reads Le Bon The Crowd, and the Psychology of Revolution, with the viewpoint of how those books influenced Hubbard, why the leader of a group has to establish "prestige" or as hubbard changed to "status". Those books are a lot to wade thru, but just get to Leaders of religious movements, science revolutions, mystic revolutions.

So yah, the Bridge to Total Freedom is about status and prestige but only a gradient in the Scientology world. Just ask any ex member if they thought of somebody going clear as all powerful, and same with anybody who made it up to the OT levels at any level whether being OT 1, 2,......8. They will answer they thought people attaining those levels were mini gods you might say.

And, of course, anybody in the Sea Org, why us public thought they were OT's as well, having status or prestige or ranks. Ergo, all the military ranks in the Sea Org. And the same for anybody having traveled up the bridge to higher levels of awareness, supposedly.

Once these mystic levels of awareness, I found out finally from direct observation, why the whole thing called scientology fell down as bullshit.

 

[Babel Fish]

To answer your questions, because I had them as well, the only thing I have found through research is what Hubbard told Heinlein in a personal letter to Heinlein pre Dianetics release, or 1949. I made a post about it here:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...sicientology&p=1058062&viewfull=1#post1058062

Basically, if one reads Le Bon The Crowd, and the Psychology of Revolution, with the viewpoint of how those books influenced Hubbard, why the leader of a group has to establish "prestige" or as hubbard changed to "status". Those books are a lot to wade thru, but just get to Leaders of religious movements, science revolutions, mystic revolutions.

So yah, the Bridge to Total Freedom is about status and prestige but only a gradient in the Scientology world. Just ask any ex member if they thought of somebody going clear as all powerful, and same with anybody who made it up to the OT levels at any level whether being OT 1, 2,......8. They will answer they thought people attaining those levels were mini gods you might say.

And, of course, anybody in the Sea Org, why us public thought they were OT's as well, having status or prestige or ranks. Ergo, all the military ranks in the Sea Org. And the same for anybody having traveled up the bridge to higher levels of awareness, supposedly.

Once these mystic levels of awareness, I found out finally from direct observation, why the whole thing called scientology fell down as bullshit.

I've been going through the thread you linked and a couple tangent threads that were referenced within it for a few hours, and they've really opened my eyes to the caliber of some of the discourse on this site. I watched going clear a year and a half ago with no knowledge whatsoever of Scientology. I immediately watched several more documentaries read a handful of church history overview/member autobiographies and scoured YouTube for interviews with people who've been involved. I listened to all the Surviving Scientology with Jeffery Augustine podcasts twice, which have been my favorite resource so far because of how personal and detail oriented it is. If these threads I've been going through are any indicator, all the other stuff I've been reading is cumulatively about enough background info to start being able to grasp some of the more thoughtful stuff posted here.

I think I'm starting to get a better idea about why DM is so paranoid about the Internet.

Anyway, I'm gonna go lurk for a while. Thanks everyone for the responses.

 

[Enthetan]

I remember hearing a while ago (I think it was mentioned in a Surviving Scientology podcast) that the rank of Captain (if I remember right) is the highest rank inside the sea org, likely because Hubbard was a Captain in the military. What I gathered was that although Captain is a relatively low rank in the actual military, it being the highest one in Scientology helped give sea org workers who aren't familiar with military rank the impression that LRH was a decorated war hero.

"Captain" in the Navy is a high rank (just below the Admiral ranks, and above Commander). Hubbard's self-proclaimed rank in the SO was "Commodore". Thus, nobody in the SO can have a rank higher than Captain, because then he would be of equal or higher rank than Hubbard, which would be sacrilege.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

I remember hearing a while ago (I think it was mentioned in a Surviving Scientology podcast) that the rank of Captain (if I remember right) is the highest rank inside the sea org, likely because Hubbard was a Captain in the military. What I gathered was that although Captain is a relatively low rank in the actual military, it being the highest one in Scientology helped give sea org workers who aren't familiar with military rank the impression that LRH was a decorated war hero.

Somewhere else, I remember a former sea org worker talking about how he always assumed that the Pilots (with the pilot pins) were super important and high ranking, only to find out later that being a "pilot" actually didn't mean much.

I don't remember seeing anything on these mentioned anywhere else since I first heard it. Can anyone verify if what I said is correct, and maybe provide any info (or a link to info) about what those ranks do and what other ranks there are? Are they a status symbol in a similar way that having a clear bracelet on the base was viewed as a sort of status symbol?

Do you have the rank to start this thread?







ps: let's not forget the rank of Deputy Commodore. It is awarded to loyal officers who have demonstrated extraordinary courage by attempting to use sociopathic delusion to defeat reality. Captain Bill Robertson was such a stellar being who rose to D/Commodore.

 

[Type4_PTS]

I thought Hubbard was promoted to Admiral before his departure to Target Two.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Anyone know how many dogs achieved the rank of Captain in the Sea Org?

‘Scientology leader dresses his beagles as captains and makes followers salute them…
Amazing claims about cult by author Lawrence Wright

"...Miscavige dressed his DOGS up in clothes that
gave them the ranking of Sea Org captain and made members salute them.

He writes: “Miscavige keeps a number of dogs, including five beagles. He had
blue vests made up for each of them, with four stripes on the epaulettes,
indicating the rank of Sea Org captain.

“He insists that people salute the dogs as they parade by.

“The dogs have a treadmill where they work out. A full-time staff member
feeds, walks and trains the dogs and enters one of them, Jelly, into
contests, where he has attained championship status.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/n...-as-captains-and-makes-followers-salute-them/

 

[Type4_PTS]

I thought Hubbard was promoted to Admiral before his departure to Target Two.

Yes, he was. Here's confirmation.

 

[Rmack]

Heck, I didn't even know I had a rank in the S.O., so I must have been a swamper.

BTW, one of the confusions on U.S. military rank, which Sea Org rank is based on, is that captain mean very different ranks in the Navy and Coast Guard, as compared to Army, Marines, and Air Force.

In the Army, captain is the 3rd officer rank, O3, whereas in the Navy captain is O6, the equivalent of colonel. The 03 rank in the Navy is lieutenant, and lieutenant is the O2 rank in the Army! Though, thank God, they all share the same collar emblems.

 

[JustSheila]

Yes, he was. Here's confirmation.

Talk about self promotion! I'll bet ol El Con gave himself another medal and ribbon for his promotion, too.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Talk about self promotion! I'll bet ol El Con gave himself another medal and ribbon for his promotion, too.

LOL, Someone should shoop that picture, putting in the faces of Miscavige and Cruise.

As far as that Flag Order I posted I've got no idea as to it's legitimacy.

Maybe if Pat Broeker ever writes a book he can shed some light on it.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I thought Hubbard was promoted to Admiral before his departure to Target Two.

For a period (2 years?) that FO was considered to be a valid issue. Then it was not, either withdrawn or cancelled -- I forget the label accompanying the removal.

I read online this was part of the Broeker/Dwarf power play. In the end Broeker lost, of course. I assume the issue was fake, considering Hubbard's post-stroke dysphasia.

Paul

 

[Rmack]

I thought Hubbard was promoted to Admiral before his departure to Target Two.

I heard a story one time that a bunch of S.O. tried to promote him to Admiral, and he politely declined, saying Commodore was good enough.

Makes you wonder who the Admirals were!

 

[Type4_PTS]

For a period (2 years?) that FO was considered to be a valid issue. Then it was not, either withdrawn or cancelled -- I forget the label accompanying the removal.

I read online this was part of the Broeker/Dwarf power play. In the end Broeker lost, of course. I assume the issue was fake, considering Hubbard's post-stroke dysphasia.

I also assume that the issue was fake as well but don't know for sure.

I'd love for Pat Broeker to write a book, or even better shoot some videos telling the story from his perspective. It would be valuable from a historical perspective.

If he's concerned about the repercussions from the CoS than he can arrange for it to be released after he dies.