Rathbun does it again...

HelluvaHoax!

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posted by HelluvaHoax!
1) If Ron was the most OT being of all and discovered the tech to free all beings in the universe, why could he not free himself?

Posted by Lidwdbids
I believe strongly that he was just too arrogant to allow mere Earthlings, such as Otto Roos, to apply his own tech to himself. Apparently, he never handled his own Grade IV, his Service Fac. HAD ROOS AND HIS TEAM ACTUALLY DONE A REPAIR ON RON AND STRAIGHTENED OUT HIS CASE, CAN YOU SEE RON STANDING WITH THEM ON A PODIUM HI-FIVING THEM AS THE PEOPLE WHO SAVED HIM? My theory is that Ron could not confront sharing the limelight with anyone else. He would rather remain ill and aberrated than allow someone else to help to restore his health and have to share the limelight with them.

hmmmm, wouldn't that mean that anyone whose case had intentions to "remain ill and aberrated" would likewise remain ill and aberrated? That would be a pretty big problem with the tech, wouldn't it?



posted by HelluvaHoax!
If he could not handle his own case with four decades (1946-1986) of auditing from the best auditors in the world, available to him all day,every day, 365 days a year at no cost....isn't it painfully obvious that there is something dreadfully wrong with the tech?

posted by likwdbids
To me, it doesn't necessarily show 100% that there is something wrong with the tech, it indicates a high likelyhood of that being the case but there is also a significant possiblity that he refused to use the tech on himself for the reasons I just stated above.

From many sources (including ex wife & friends that worked for Hubbard personally) I have consistently heard that "Even Ron always followed his own tech and got auditing every single day." Just for fun, if Ron had only 1 intensive per week:

  • He would have received 26,000 hours of auditing
  • He would have received 2080 intensives
  • Modestly valued at $5,000 per intensive, the cost of his auditing would be $10,400,000

That just doesn't seem like the only hope for mankind or working folks or for clearing the planet.

Especially when $10M is still not enough to handle one's case...
 

Terril park

Sponsor
It's clear that at least one actual product of Scientology Tech is the creation of practitioners who *believe* that they have been helped by Scientology Tech.

Zinj

So Zinj, you are expert in knowing Marty's mind despite his denial of your
atributions, and also expert in denial of gains of all who partake of scientology practices, and who would mostly disagree with you, if they knew you. They generally consider they have been helped, you position this as irrational belief. Why should anyone take any notice of your comments on this?
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
We are close to agreement here.

hmmmm, wouldn't that mean that anyone whose case had intentions to "remain ill and aberrated" would likewise remain ill and aberrated? That would be a pretty big problem with the tech, wouldn't it?

Yes it could definitely be so. (Notice I said could but not would.)


From many sources (including ex wife & friends that worked for Hubbard personally) I have consistently heard that "Even Ron always followed his own tech and got auditing every single day." Just for fun, if Ron had only 1 intensive per week:

  • He would have received 26,000 hours of auditing
  • He would have received 2080 intensives
  • Modestly valued at $5,000 per intensive, the cost of his auditing would be $10,400,000

That just doesn't seem like the only hope for mankind or working folks or for clearing the planet.

Especially when $10M is still not enough to handle one's case...

You know, I do not believe he got audited every day of his life once he started Dianetics. However,that is not important. He did all his own C/S ing, which is against his own policy and much of his auditing was done solo. Nobody FESed his folders looking for errors. Much of his auditing was in pioneering new techniques and he subjected himself to out listing, missing reads, unhandled Rock Slams and over runs while trying new processes and techniques on himself. Joe Q. Public got auditing which was piloted and had the bugs worked out while Ron ran unpiloted untested routines on himself. John Q. Public had FESers, a C/S who was a different person than the auditor and a Div 5 cramming division behind him. LRH never sent himself to cramming or subjected himself to correction or review by another. Also. I never claimed clearing the planet with C of S auditing was a doable goal. I you look at my last post, I agreed that no Book 1 Clears or full OT's were made and all I claimed is that quite a few people feel they have achieved significant wins.

Helluva, your basic premises make sense, I am making a few counter examples when I think you are assuming a little too much or painting with too broad of a brush when defining some of your generalalities. I think my counter examples are strong; if you do not buy into them and wish to keep your previous views just as they were before I commented, I have no problem with that, it is totally OK with me. I think the main gist of what you are saying has merit. We are close to agreement and if we don't agree as to some specific fine points so be it. I said my piece on this topic and you can have the last word if you want.
Lkwdblds
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
So Zinj, you are expert in knowing Marty's mind despite his denial of your
atributions, and also expert in denial of gains of all who partake of scientology practices, and who would mostly disagree with you, if they knew you. They generally consider they have been helped, you position this as irrational belief. Why should anyone take any notice of your comments on this?


I think this is doublespeak and a veiled insult Terril.

I commend you for speaking as a person instead of just pushing the tech and the freezone. Maybe you might want to look at what you wrote and reconsider?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
So Zinj, you are expert in knowing Marty's mind despite his denial of your
atributions, and also expert in denial of gains of all who partake of scientology practices, and who would mostly disagree with you, if they knew you. They generally consider they have been helped, you position this as irrational belief. Why should anyone take any notice of your comments on this?

I have no idea. I don't particularly expect it. I also don't expect people who've been hypnotized to think they're chickens to listen to me when I tell them they're *not* really chickens.

Marty's a different matter. He's just lying.

Zinj
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Because to be 'out exchange' would make him criminal?

Zinj


He would argue that he'd created the whole entire body of work (Scn)...

There is absolutely NO indication that he had to pay for auditing or felt he'd have to or even was asked that.

There's also NO indication that he got auditing every single week. Particularly that last year or two in the trailer at San Luis Obispo...
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Since Ron was Mankind's Greatest Benefactor, we are all 'out-exchange' to Him :) Why, if Ron stole my hedge clippers, he'd be perfectly justified!

Thank You Ron!

Zinj

There is no indication that Ron "stole" your hedge clippers. In reality, Ron does not need to "steal" your hedge clippers.

The fact is, his havingness is so unbelievably high that it shatters your low, mest-level agreement called "ownership"... and the physical universe simply rearranges itself accordingly.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I think this is doublespeak and a veiled insult Terril.

I commend you for speaking as a person instead of just pushing the tech and the freezone. Maybe you might want to look at what you wrote and reconsider?

I can only say I love you ladybird. :)) xxxxx
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've always found that particular quote of Hubbard's to be rather baffling...



Same here. Even when I was in I thought it funny.
What it really means to me is "Do your work and don't complain".:confused2:

Work isn't supposed to be free. Although more than one definition of free fits there.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I've always found that particular quote of Hubbard's to be rather baffling...

Yeah, that one was a total stumper for me too! ("The work was free. Keep it so.")

I listed it on a thread about certain Scn datums that I had no idea how to apply. I thought there were some really excellent posts and viewpoints in answer to that little gem of a mystery... (particularly a few posts by Veda)

showthread.php
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Same here. Even when I was in I thought it funny.
What it really means to me is "Do your work and don't complain".:confused2:

Work isn't supposed to be free. Although more than one definition of free fits there.

What I find baffling is this: The work. Ok, the work is Scn and Dn. "Tech" and, I guess, "policy"- amirite?

And is it free? Hell, no! Is it just well, not free, but not too 'spensive? Again, hell no! I mean, jeez, they don't even really do much with the Scn free academie thingies anymore...

Maybe, by "free" he meant "the liberty to practice it". But actually, that doesn't even work. How much liberty did we have in CofS? How much staff enhancement time got hijacked to do something or other and burn the midnight oil?

So I really think that statement just does not cut it for me.

I'm tired. I'm going to bed. It's midnight. I'm about to turn into a pumpkin.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I am speculating that what Hubbard meant (from the old days) was that he initially financed it from his own income from writing.

This is the only way I can make any sense of his statement.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
What I find baffling is this: The work. Ok, the work is Scn and Dn. "Tech" and, I guess, "policy"- amirite?

And is it free? Hell, no! Is it just well, not free, but not too 'spensive? Again, hell no! I mean, jeez, they don't even really do much with the Scn free academie thingies anymore...

Maybe, by "free" he meant "the liberty to practice it". But actually, that doesn't even work. How much liberty did we have in CofS? How much staff enhancement time got hijacked to do something or other and burn the midnight oil?

So I really think that statement just does not cut it for me.

I'm tired. I'm going to bed. It's midnight. I'm about to turn into a pumpkin.


Fluffy, you talk too much. If your MO is to wear us all out you win. I'm going to bed now too.
 
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