What's new

Rathbun Public Apology

Leland

Crusader
I'm glad you are not Monique's lawyer.

Yes I feel for her. No I do not think Marty pulled it in. I do think there must be some hidden factors that have yet to be disclosed....and perhaps never will be. I do think him an idiot for not foreseeing this potential inevitability. I am glad I am not Monique ' s lawyer also. :) I myself have suffered for over 13 years of spiritually and physical torture at the hands of Scientology as mentioned earlier. For 10 years I could not sleep after leaving the SHSBC. My physical Health has deteriorated greatly. I would gladly exchange round the clock squirrel busters with cameras on their heads at my home for what I have been suffering through. Perhaps you will think this untrue, but it is not.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Clearly true and the suit is full speed ahead.. But the lawsuit has nothing to do with Marty's apology to Miller or his lack of apology to anyone already named or not in this thread.

edit: and I'm just here trying to figure it all out.. I'm sooooo far removed from this whole situation or anything like it..my opinion has been changing with the wind or the latest good argument.. This is one of those times I think being a wog makes it hard to be comfortable making an assessment.


I believe Marty has made some general apologies, though a quick search I can't find one. In what I believe was his first post on the net here on ESMB he said anyone who had issues with him was welcome to contact him, and if wanted councelling could be given.

He is very actively trying to make right not only any damage he has done,
but to help people disentangle themselves from any trap that may be contained in Scn.
See this blog post for example.

Then he has taken on the current lawsuit........thats gutsy.


http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/a-course-in-graduating-from-scientology/
 

Leland

Crusader
So it's Marty's fault that grown men & women strapped cameras to their heads & harrassed him & his wife for 200 days, day & night, non stop, wherever they went. That was his fault.

Did he "pull it in"?

Sure he would have known he was going to cop something from DM. Everyone who has gotten out & tried to practise Scientology has copped OSA harrassment. It amuses me when people talk about "making amends" and that "Marty will cop his Karma". What the hell do think he has been doing & been copping for the last 4-5 years?

I am coming across like a Marty fan. I'm actually not. But the rubbish you are coming up with is making me have to defend him.

To make matters more simple and to hopefully create some understanding between us, could you tell me exactly what Marty Rathbun did that you find unforgivable?

First just because you were in SO in 2001, no I do not fault you. I do not know where you worked either. But I believe Marty is a different case. I had a HUGE sit with the church in 2001, an enormous blow up. I believe Chris Montgomery the OT 8 back on solo nots SHSBC I/C was kicked out of the SO because of it, and that is the least of what happened. I believe I found an error in the NOTs technology. I think that the NOTs technology has and is causing a spiritual holocaust on Earth. I do believe that Marty would have been aware of some of the things that happened at that time. Yes I am angry. I would like to shut down all NOTs auditing and the entire c of s. I don't wish to discuss this further.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I don't think Marty is all that difficult to understand.

He does what he does because he thinks it's the right thing to do (in his own head) - just like we all do.

He didn't do what he did in the CoS to piss you or anyone else off. He did it because he thought it was right (in his own head). He isn't battling DM in a courtroom to make you happy, he's doing what he thinks is the right thing to do for his family & his future.

People tend to assign these grand motives to public people. I don't think they are any different to you or I. We all do what we think is best for ourselves, our families, our friends, mankind or whatever is floating our boat on any given day.

We like to think we would have acted differently were we ever in Rathbun or Rinder's shoes. "Oh I would never have stopped Russell Millers Book" you might think to yourself. Really?

We were in a cult. We were programmed. We believed we were the only people who had the truth & we were saving mankind. I don't know about you but when I was in Scn I was the best Course Sup I could be. Then I was the best TTCer I could be. Then I was the best intern I could be. Then I was the best auditor I could be. I was driven because I was "special" and I had a very important job to do. I thank my lucky stars I was never in HCO or OSA or I would have been the best Ethics officer I could be or the best PR person I could be, or the best spy, or best infiltrator etc.

Maybe some of you are better than me or Marty or Mike or Patty or Gary or anyone else who has admitted to doing fucked up things while in the CoS. Well good on you. But it begs the question, If you are that smart and your moral compass is infallible, why did you get into & stay in Scientology?

As always a voice of rationality.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
It might go not only a long way but all the way if he (and anyone else) came 100% clean and explains in detail how he ran or was part of operations. Full disclosure. Sometimes you can't make reparations but you can always tell the truth and that will help a great deal in others healing..just coming clean.

The cult didn't just wrong it's members..it has wronged society. Obstruction of justice and wasting the courts time with suits like that against Miller. So an apology is appreciated but full disclosure of how the operation went down would be helpful so as to stop similar events in the future. It would also be helpful in raising awareness to the "wog world" of just how cut throat and criminal this organization is which in turn will aid in its demise.

just come clean on everything..full detail.. That will help keep such things from happening again and it will help raise awareness. Seriously, some of the events that have gone down are so vicious people find it nearly impossible to believe.. This would change if someone at the top came clean and said this really did happen and it was this harmful, illegal or viscous and I am sorry.

If you do illegal things there is no guarantee of immunity but that is how you live with yourself..you dished it, you take what comes.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
<snip>

Emma, you should leave that bad words there.... just for history....:coolwink:

On another forum I occasionally visit, they do just that. They leave a message behind offensive texts:
"<<<< Mod/Admin comment: User has received a warning for this statement and will be be banned if/when he/she does it again."

Works like a charm in that particular forum.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Has anyone who's posting here in this thread read Rathbun's last (third) book?

EDIT: ...

Do you know what his role was in supporting the Church's litigation and investigations?

Do you know what he was doing in 2001?
 
I believe I found an error in the NOTs technology. I think that the NOTs technology has and is causing a spiritual holocaust on Earth.
The only thing NOTs technology is causing is mentally instability and empty bank accounts for anyone foolish enough to waste their time with Hubbard's drug addled nonsense.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
:) It is always the same what makes me angry, but this is OT.

Keeping in mind the topic of this board, you might want to spell out "OT". :yes: :coolwink:

I believe as a friend you know what I am talking about. Yesterday I thought... Oh, better not reading this thread, today I did and now I asked me why. Some "stitches" in old wounds, what has nothing to do with Marty Rathbun. Sorry, for the OT and my angriness.

Yes, I believe that I know what you're talking about. :)

The thing is: You shouldn't allow yourself to be thrown "off your beat" when someone/something, deliberately or not, occasionally "touches" that wound. After all, it's an "old" wound, isn't it? :wink2:

At 5:55 he said that he helped to create this "monster".
[video=youtube;ku4swevIwdk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku4swevIwdk[/video]

Yeah, so what? So did you, back in your days and (almost) every Ex who posts here too. Marty just could do it on a higher level because he was in a higher position.

seconded :yes:

:flowers2:
Nicole

:bighug: :)
 
Last edited:

Lone Star

Crusader
First just because you were in SO in 2001, no I do not fault you. I do not know where you worked either. But I believe Marty is a different case. I had a HUGE sit with the church in 2001, an enormous blow up. I believe Chris Montgomery the OT 8 back on solo nots SHSBC I/C was kicked out of the SO because of it, and that is the least of what happened. I believe I found an error in the NOTs technology. I think that the NOTs technology has and is causing a spiritual holocaust on Earth. I do believe that Marty would have been aware of some of the things that happened at that time. Yes I am angry. I would like to shut down all NOTs auditing and the entire c of s. I don't wish to discuss this further.


I'm glad you're here Leland. It's good to get all of your anger and frustrations out among people who understand.

As far as Marty goes I think Emma much earlier in this thread hit the nail on the head. He did what he did in the CoS because he believed in his head it was right. I think what we all have to accept is that we all did what we did because at the time we believed it was right. Including giving tons of money to the IAS and taking very expensive courses and paying for very expensive auditing intensives. Some here even disconnected from friends and family believing it to be the right thing to do.

Were we tricked? Yeah. But most of us, if not all of us, had that still small voice in the back of our heads saying, "This is bullshit....GTFO!!" Most of us ignored that inner voice too long. We have to take responsibility for it and not blame anyone else, no matter how evil they were at the time.

I believe that Marty right now is living a life of "apology" by sticking it to DM in a way in which DM will probably never recover. No one, other than Mike Rinder, knows how to fight DM better or more wisely. He's using his decades of inside experience to finish DM off. I know that's his goal. Look at the fact that he and Mosey moved from the gulf coast of Texas to Bulverde. They loved their home on the coast and could've stayed. Yes he knew the surveillance would continue. He also knew it would continue if they moved. It's no accident that he chose Bulverde which is the home of the law offices of one Ray Jeffrey. That move was in essence baiting DM: "Go ahead punk, make my day.....you know who else lives in this little town...I'm a gonna use him if you keep it up.....bitch."

So he moved there knowing he was entering into a protracted multi-years long court battle against all the money and top lawyers DM can muster. Yes it is technically Mosey's suit, but you know what I mean.

I suppose Marty could do more to atone for his past actions. I wouldn't be surprised if he does keep doing more. But if he just keeps doing what he's doing now that's enough for me personally. YMMV. This lawsuit is the Big One IMHO. It's the one that has the real potential to mortally wound the Cultic Scilon Empire headed by Darth Slappy. To me that's his atonement for all the bad he did for around 25 years. Again....YMMV.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Very touchy feely! How nice and pleasant . {insult redacted}
#

Normally, I am one of his biggest critics. I'm at the point where I think some change is better than none AND he has no affect on my life anyway.

This is the shit that hurts, 27 years is more than half my life on this earth, fuck that, I would be angry too, rage is an appropriate reaction.

Agree with you.

Seen from the outside, everyone who has ever been an active member of the so-called Church could be defined as guilty to some extent, right down to the new converts who joined staff, and applied the tech which enslaved more recent victims. Their guilt is perhaps technical rather than moral but the leadership could achieve nothing without them.

If they were hapless victims who got involved in the con through no fault of their own, this is equally true of David Miscavige and Marty Rathbun and the rest of the leadership. They were sincere and did everything according to the rules to KSW.

I am not sure if guilt can be attributed on a declining scale or even if it is a useful concept. Too Abrahamic. Hubbard was certainly guilty of creating the con but was it perpetrated consciously by his followers? Almost certainly not. There was a tech and it was applied. There was a world view and it was preached. The evil that ensued was deliberate but it is not visible on the inside.

If Marty has apologised, for anything, this is IMHO a very big step in the right direction, for him and for everyone in a similar situation.

Not everyone in the Church is in the same boat (or those that have left). As far as I'm concerned there are many people in (and out) of the Church who I feel owe nobody an apology (or at least to myself). At the end of the day we're left with our own baggage, once we deal with that we might feel differently.

What is interested is that Marty and Mark both claim to have never read Miller's books; only the dead agent pack on the book which to some degree shifts some responsibility onto the mystery person who wrote the pack and where they got their information from.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Scientology is a machine that Hubbard built and then set in motion. Every single person who has ever been involved has contributed to the workings of that machine as it rolls forward through time.

Yes, that is true. But, it is not just a matter of black/white or did or didn't. It is a matter of DEGREE. The degree that any person "contributed", how much, for how long, and so forth, is wildly variable. It is relevant.

I see many people tossing around the words "blame" and "fault" here. One cannot move on with self or others if one holds onto such things - blame, guilt, and assigning fault. One releases them in self and others through forgiveness and acceptance. In that way, one releases guilt and blame, and through a shift into viewing how one was and is responsible for ONES OWN CHOICES (all of them), one is free to move forward.

A view of responsibility for ones choices is far different than blame and assigning fault.

I have no concern for Marty as I forgave him, and all others like him, a long time ago.

But, for HIM, he will eventually need to forgive himself for all he did, and apologize as best as he can, sincerely, to all those he hurt in some way. THAT is the "tech" of freeing self from the past. It is quite simple, but not always so easy to do. That is all up to him, and between himself and himself. I have no need to judge the man, because we are usually each our own worst judge. Ceasing to judge is a key part of acceptance. Anything you don't fully accept tends to be resisted, fought or a cause of conflict.

Full acceptance of ones own past misdeeds, mistakes, harmful acts and even crimes enables unconditional forgiveness. All judgment is released. This is a "flow zero" (so to speak). It is the most important flow in practicing acceptance, forgiveness and love - true inner healing. How and when Marty does these things is up to him. Though, people who have been immersed in Scientology for so long often have NO CLUE about "this tech", as these ideas are non-existent in Scientology! Too many of these folks try to heal using some form of Scientology. There are no roads to full inner acceptance, forgiveness, releasing judgments, and love in Scientology. That is sad, because these KEY TOOLS enable a form of psychological/emotional release and freedom one never can achieve with Scientology theories and practices. And, that which chooses to accept, forgive and love is the "being" (spirit).

Marty's choices are his own. I have no control or concern about them (past, present or future). Of course, if he and Mosey cause HUGE trouble for Scientology, THAT is always a GOOD THING!

Otherwise, it is a beautiful day, and I am out to walk the dog! :happydance:
 
Last edited:
I'm not defending Marty but the bottom line is when the cult is spending millions of dollars to make your life a living hell, you have a little more on you mind that apologizing to people.

I'm kind of surprised he bothered to apologize to Russell Miller but there might be a good reason he did and that reason was to further document the cult's history of terrorizing anyone who dares to expose the truth. Which by no means is a bad thing. I'm beyond giving a shit if he's sincere or not, I just want his actions to be effective.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
It doesn't surprise me at all that back in the day Marty and Mike put so much effort into refuting Miller's book (which is EXCELLENT) without actually ever reading Miller's book.

People are afraid of books that don't agree with their own views. People burn such books. They certainly don't buy them. Even when they're free online they won't read them. Or their blogs. Or their posts.

It's a lot easier to (using the words we used to use) "hold our position" when we refuse to view anything that would weaken it.

(ahem)

We usually seek out that information and interpret that information in ways that give us the greatest comfort.

TG1
 

Gadfly

Crusader
It doesn't surprise me at all that back in the day Marty and Mike put so much effort into refuting Miller's book (which is EXCELLENT) without actually ever reading Miller's book.

People are afraid of books that don't agree with their own views. People burn such books. They certainly don't buy them. Even when they're free online they won't read them. Or their blogs. Or their posts.

It's a lot easier to (using the words we used to use) "hold our position" when we refuse to view anything that would weaken it.

(ahem)

We usually seek out that information and interpret that information in ways that give us the greatest comfort.

TG1

:thumbsup:

Our "comfort zone", based on our set of beliefs, opinions, habits and ideas, can often be our own worse enemy. It is what keeps us locked in a non-productive or dangerous mindset. It takes work to change it. Interestingly, involvement with Scientology usually CREATES a strict "comfort zone", whereas some other mental/emotional therapies encourage a SHIFT OUT of previous "comfort zones".

True growth requires "change". The most important changes are those in ideas, viewpoint, and perspective. Marty is obviously moving along on THAT road. We each do in our own way, and at our own speed.
 

Daisy

Patron with Honors
The majority here are exes. We all have our own history with the cult. We are all in different stages of recovery also. I now choose not to fault those with their own opinions on either hanging Marty or congratulating him on his progress from cult think.

I had lost a lot of empathy for people while in the cult. Whatever opinion one may have for Marty is alright with me. We are not the same people with exactly the same history with this cult and we are all changing everyday.

Glad we are all out, looking forward to more joining this message board.
 
It doesn't surprise me at all that back in the day Marty and Mike put so much effort into refuting Miller's book (which is EXCELLENT) without actually ever reading Miller's book.

People are afraid of books that don't agree with their own views. People burn such books. They certainly don't buy them. Even when they're free online they won't read them. Or their blogs. Or their posts.

It's a lot easier to (using the words we used to use) "hold our position" when we refuse to view anything that would weaken it.

(ahem)

We usually seek out that information and interpret that information in ways that give us the greatest comfort.

TG1
Hubbard already did the thinking for them, their job was to prove Hubbard right, not to actually check if it's true or not. The cult may suck ass at mental health and spirituality, but they are experts at creating enemies. Being good cult members, Marty's and Mike's job was to attack these enemies not understand them, in fact even attempting to understand these enemies will be detrimental to your eternity.
 
Top