Rathbun Public Apology

[ThetanExterior]

I've just read through 15 pages of this thread so I think I may as well add my humble opinion.

I'm happy to let Marty do what he's doing and I personally am not expecting him or anyone else to do anything to "make amends". I think he and Monique are doing a great job with the court case and I couldn't care less what their motives are or what they get out of it personally.

I was in Scientology for over 15 years and like many people I've been through the shit they dish out. I was nearly bankrupted, I've gone through the Disconnection crap, which I refused, I went through a divorce, I got my money back from the IAS, I sued my local org and won, I was Declared an SP etc etc.

Despite all of this I left it all behind me for over 10 years and only recently started to take an interest in what was happening now. I certainly don't hate anyone for anything that happened to me. In fact, take a look at my sig at the bottom of this post. That thought came to me one day while I was reading some posts on this forum and I agreed with it totally.

I want to see the CofS dealt with just as much as anybody else but I don't think extreme negative emotions are helpful to the person who has them.

Just my two cents.

 

[TG1]

Hubbard already did the thinking for them, their job was to prove Hubbard right, not to actually check if it's true or not. The cult may suck ass at mental health and spirituality, but they are experts at creating enemies. Being good cult members, Marty's and Mike's job was to attack these enemies not understand them, in fact even attempting to understand these enemies will be detrimental to your eternity.

Snuggling up with your most deeply held values and avoiding contact with any "counter-intention" to those values is true not just of Scientologists.

It's true of people.

It's true of people who are now out of Scientology.

It's true of people who were never in Scientology.

Changing your mind -- presented in Scientology as one of the easiest things in the world to do -- is actually not easy.

Changing your mind -- by looking at information you once would have burned -- is one of the hardest things human beings do.

Changing our minds is the path to (ahem) our survival.

God bless us every one.

TG1

 

[Arthur Dent]

Regardless of possible strategic motives, Marty apologized. Now it's out there. And, in spite of or for the grace of whatever reasons, I hope it serves him and Mosey and all the rest of us.

I'd like to apologize,too, but my list won't fit in this box. So, I'm issuing a general apology to everyone I've ever regged, ever audited, evaluated, ever chitted or KRd, ever accused, ever had critical thoughts of because they were not on the right track, anyone whose family or relationships I may have influenced or damaged in any negative way at all, anyone I've ever helped brainwash, convince, persuade or downright con, even if I didn't think that's what I was doing at the time, and to anyone who I wished was not sessionable so I wouldn't have to wait so long. And all this I did of my own accord without the direct instructions of Davey. It all stemmed from run of the mill mind-bending brainwashing from our mutual cult. None of us has clean hands. This is a dirty war, who are we kidding? I say let's take the apologies and the strategies as they are. Hopefully, they will serve the purpose of exposing the cult and miss cabbage and lead to handcuffs.

 

[TG1]

Regardless of possible strategic motives, Marty apologized. Now it's out there. And, in spite of or for the grace of whatever reasons, I hope it serves him and Mosey and all the rest of us.

I'd like to apologize,too, but my list won't fit in this box. So, I'm issuing a general apology to everyone I've ever regged, ever audited, evaluated, ever chitted or KRd, ever accused, ever had critical thoughts of because they were not on the right track, anyone whose family or relationships I may have influenced or damaged in any negative way at all, anyone I've ever helped brainwash, convince, persuade or downright con, even if I didn't think that's what I was doing at the time, and to anyone who I wished was not sessionable so I wouldn't have to wait so long. And all this I did of my own accord without the direct instructions of Davey. It all stemmed from run of the mill mind-bending brainwashing from our mutual cult. None of us has clean hands. This is a dirty war, who are we kidding? I say let's take the apologies and the strategies as they are. Hopefully, they will serve the purpose of exposing the cult and miss cabbage and lead to handcuffs.

I accept your apology.

Now, let's go get some ice cream.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I accept your apology.

Now, let's go get some ice cream.

OK, but I'm picky:
I'll have the Cherry Merlot please! Double scoop!


Mercer's Wine Ice Cream is available in the following varietals:
Cherry Merlot
Chocolate Cabernet
Peach White Zinfandel
Port
Red Raspberry Chardonnay
Riesling

http://www.jenis.com/categories/Flavors/Signature-Flavors/ is also amazing!!!

 

[TG1]

Ooooh! I think I'll have Chocolate Cabernet.

 

[Chess]

Why is Marty apologizing to Russel Miller?

The reason for it is that Marty - I mean his wife, is suing the CoS. By openly admitting that he, Marty himself was behind the harassment of Russel Miller, following Church directives etc, etc, he is trying to create awareness that same or similar happened to Monique, his wife.

CoS lawyers are trying to present harassment of ex church members (and their wife in Marty's case) like "getting them back on the right path of spiritual rightness".

However Russel Miller was no Ex. Nevertheless Miller was harassed. Marty admits and apologizes that he was a driving force behind it. Hence Church does harassment as their standard tool. Marty himself said he did it. He now publicly apologizes for it.

Marty is creating thought connections, trying to undermine CoS defense line.

That's the reason behind Marty's apology. Nothing bad though, just strategy.

I reckon let early days 'be early days'. Maybe it's best to wait and see what is genuine or not genuine after the settlements and so forth are done with - but they are on the way.
I'm not sure if a public apology made through a mass media outlet by someone that was instrumental in making my life a misery, especially financial misery would do a lot to light my fire. It may appease those with an it happened'over there' mentality or 'it happened ages ago'. Have dinner with a genuine victim sometime and listen - that is where the sense of propriety truly lies in what is and what isn't an actual apology. The sheer magnitude of what the Cof$ has done and Marty's involvement at the top level for so long boggles the mind. I'm not criticizing that at least something is better than nothing but let's face it - who hasn't been duped before in this saga.
But I am saying I'm all for a victim feeling good about something on the subject he was fucked with. There's a lot of 'owing' left out there to be delivered upon.
I see the Catholic Church et al are grappling with what to do concerning the subject of apology. The arrogance of legal and slippery group PR solving mechanisms doesn't quite cut it anymore as it does little to console victims of such a personal affront to both body and mind violation. The net & mass media sure must be hated by those who run those types of organisations.
I can't wait for the $cn war to be over. But when it does end or morph into something else and Miscavige (new nickname 'Slops') is hard at work cooling down his butt hole and picking the hairs from between his teeth, there'll be a moment to turn around and look backwards - what a fucking mess!

 

[Nicole]

Keeping in mind the topic of this board, you might want to spell out "OT".

Always if I read or write somewhere in the internet OT I am thinking about "OTs" but I meant Off Topic here. :wink2:

Yes, I believe that I know what you're talking about.

The thing is: You shouldn't allow yourself to be thrown "off your beat" when someone/something, deliberately or not, occasionally "touches" that wound. After all, it's an "old" wound, isn't it? :wink2:

Yep, it is and we have talked more than 1000 times about it, and you always gave the same advice...

Yeah, so what? So did you, back in your days and (almost) every Ex who posts here too. Marty just could do it on a higher level because he was in a higher position.

Ok, agreed.

 

[Type4_PTS]

OK, but I'm picky:
I'll have the Cherry Merlot please! Double scoop!


Mercer's Wine Ice Cream is available in the following varietals:
Cherry Merlot
Chocolate Cabernet
Peach White Zinfandel
Port
Red Raspberry Chardonnay
Riesling

http://www.jenis.com/categories/Flavors/Signature-Flavors/ is also amazing!!!

That ice cream sounds great!

For a pint of this flavor I'd forgive any overts committed against me for the past 64 trillion years.

 

[bromo]

I did. That's formal justice. Not all justice is formal, nor all balancing is spelled out with rules. IRL it's usually far more subtle. Some of the lighter forms are gossip or getting the cold shoulder, just as examples. So I still disagree. But you are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.

ADDED: What do the never-ins think about the concept of amends IRL?

Let me finally jump into a convo here and although I am not finished with the thread and on the page that contains the above quote, I wanted to answer Sheila.

My first thought when I read the apology is that I hope that Marty first sent a personal apology in some form. Although I understand that Marty is a public persona, if he is truly contrite, a private apology that no one was aware of would make it seem more real. But it is sort of a conundrum as he is public and has a blog so making others aware of his feelings about the situation is commendable.

As far as amends go, well, that comes with time. It has to start with the apology, as a first step. What sort of amends would come to mind is nothing that would really be tangible but I think he also made a first step there as well asking every one to purchase and read the book. That is beneficial to the author.

Nothing in this world is black and white, there all sorts of shades of gray. Does every wrong thing done to a person require amends? I think not. A true apology given can often clean the slate, at least in my world. Are there times when amends should be given? Yes, especially if someone is harmed financially.

No ones experiences in life are the same as others. We cannot base everything that someone else does on what we would do. It negates the differences in us and tries to make us all the same. That is one of the things I believe the CO$ does to people, it makes them try to be the same, like the movie Stepford Wives. That is a problem, although it is not one that is only allocated to CO$. Many people in many walks of life live in bubbles of their own making and have a hard time understanding why everyone does not live and think as they do.

All of this is to say, Marty did apologize. Let is start from there. Give him time to take the next step. If he does, then good for him and if he doesn't then those who think it is self serving can be proven correct. We all have pasts and many of us are able to get past the things that we did wrong in life and go forward to do good. I hope that is the case with Marty.

 

[Vittorio]

I've come to realise that we cannot aske from Marty what he cannot give or is not ready to give.

- Burst into tears over the Lisa Macpherson case and other deaths

- Apologize to big name critics that have been dragged through the courts for years

- Show some sort of remorse for his actions

- Tell the whole truth without anything else

What he's doing is within his capability at the present time. It's not good enough for a lot of people, but he's only in a position to hurt us and others now if we let him. And he's most likely to do it publicly where he is available. It's not going to happen, we are free.

He also had (what seems) very troubled early years and we just don't know what's really going on with him. He's put himself in the public eye after leaving Scientology and has held many others up for scrutiny with many supporters to help him along. He is not closed for criticism, I disagree with anyone who say's that he is, but we have to be realistic with him and with each other.

 

[Terril park]

I believe Marty has made some general apologies, though a quick search I can't find one. In what I believe was his first post on the net here on ESMB he said anyone who had issues with him was welcome to contact him, and if wanted councelling could be given.

He is very actively trying to make right not only any damage he has done,
but to help people disentangle themselves from any trap that may be contained in Scn.
See this blog post for example.

Then he has taken on the current lawsuit........thats gutsy.


http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/12/30/a-course-in-graduating-from-scientology/

This guy says it better than I. From Marty's Blog.


MarkNR | March 15, 2014 at 10:41 am | Reply


"Marty, Dr. Franks, readers.
The details and particulars of operations of the church over the last few years can become quite complex. But the overall picture with regards to Mr. Rathbun is not that complicated.

Marty, along with the group he was attached to, committed harmful acts. Marty recognized the harmful intent of the group he was attached to. He disconnected from that group. Since he recognized that his actions harmed some severely, he:

Confessed his harmful acts broadly.

Since he recognized that the harmful acts were continuing in his absence, he:

Confessed and brought to light the past and continuing harmful acts of former and current members of this group, both as a substantial amends and as a substantial pro survival 3rd and 4th dynamic action.

His past actions harmed a few directly (in the broad scheme of things) and his current actions are helping broadly. His actions are now helping Scn and former Scn public and staff, and also in the long run are helping those who ordered and joined in the past and current harmful acts.

I accept his confessions, amends and current contributions and consider him my friend. His contributions now exceed his overts.

I hope that at some future point I can say the same about myself.
Mark"

 

[Veda]

This guy says it better than I. From Marty's Blog.


MarkNR | March 15, 2014 at 10:41 am | Reply


"Marty, Dr. Franks, readers.
The details and particulars of operations of the church over the last few years can become quite complex. But the overall picture with regards to Mr. Rathbun is not that complicated.

Marty, along with the group he was attached to, committed harmful acts. Marty recognized the harmful intent of the group he was attached to. He disconnected from that group. Since he recognized that his actions harmed some severely, he:

Confessed his harmful acts broadly.

Since he recognized that the harmful acts were continuing in his absence, he:

Confessed and brought to light the past and continuing harmful acts of former and current members of this group, both as a substantial amends and as a substantial pro survival 3rd and 4th dynamic action.

His past actions harmed a few directly (in the broad scheme of things) and his current actions are helping broadly. His actions are now helping Scn and former Scn public and staff, and also in the long run are helping those who ordered and joined in the past and current harmful acts.

I accept his confessions, amends and current contributions and consider him my friend. His contributions now exceed his overts.

I hope that at some future point I can say the same about myself.
Mark"

Shouldn't that be stamped "Independent HCO" so it's official?

"His actions are now helping Scn..."

How are Marty's actions helping Scientology?

There must be some other defenses of Marty that do not feature such stilted syntax.

Good Lord.

 

[Leland]

I don't think Marty is all that difficult to understand.

He does what he does because he thinks it's the right thing to do (in his own head) - just like we all do.

He didn't do what he did in the CoS to piss you or anyone else off. He did it because he thought it was right (in his own head). He isn't battling DM in a courtroom to make you happy, he's doing what he thinks is the right thing to do for his family & his future.

People tend to assign these grand motives to public people. I don't think they are any different to you or I. We all do what we think is best for ourselves, our families, our friends, mankind or whatever is floating our boat on any given day.

We like to think we would have acted differently were we ever in Rathbun or Rinder's shoes. "Oh I would never have stopped Russell Millers Book" you might think to yourself. Really?

We were in a cult. We were programmed. We believed we were the only people who had the truth & we were saving mankind. I don't know about you but when I was in Scn I was the best Course Sup I could be. Then I was the best TTCer I could be. Then I was the best intern I could be. Then I was the best auditor I could be. I was driven because I was "special" and I had a very important job to do. I thank my lucky stars I was never in HCO or OSA or I would have been the best Ethics officer I could be or the best PR person I could be, or the best spy, or best infiltrator etc.

Maybe some of you are better than me or Marty or Mike or Patty or Gary or anyone else who has admitted to doing fucked up things while in the CoS. Well good on you. But it begs the question, If you are that smart and your moral compass is infallible, why did you get into & stay in Scientology?

i take exception with a few of your statements. People that have risen to positions of power have always and always will be scrutinized more closely. Most don't just fall of a log and happen to rise to a position of authority and power over others. CEOs CFOs and cobs of the business world lead the business world. Sure a salesman or secretary or accountant working hard to do a good job too.... But it is far different than a view from the top of an organization.... Strategizing against your competitor for market place share or getting a new product ahead of the latest trend. Leaders might even use " cut throat" tactics and some slash and burn to get the job done. A temp typist or the receptionist .... Sure same human body type but IMO are worlds apart in potentially harmful consequences due to their actions. There are also many layers of padding / barriers in organization... One is called middle manegment, another the glass ceiling.

I most whole heartedly disagree with any notion of one size fits all .

There is limited "Space at the top". Only one say divisional manegaer over perhaps thousands of employees.

Many have dreamed of future success and planned for and won. Like Conrad Hilton dreaming as a boy of one day owning a fancy hotel. Sad, but millions of others do not achieve some set out goal.

If a company falters or gets into trouble with the law in some way, those investigated are not the mid level guys or clerks ...... It is the leadership. I firmly believe that culpability is not equal. "blame" is not equal. It usually stems from the leadership down. Scientology is completely screwy on this point.

If a company goes belly up and their stock price collapses millions can and do get hurt. But public opinion will pillory the leaders only.

 

[Balthasar]

I continue to ask myself questions like, what is the purpose of the lawsuit? What is the intention behind it? What is the broader plan, if there is one at all?

Some say that Marty wouldn't want money. May be true but still remains to be seen. He took a big (calculated) risk, that counts for him but others before him took bigger risks just by being what they were.

How I see it is that the lawsuit is good for him however it turns out. If he decides not to take blood money he will sell more books and remains the "to go to guy" in Scientology matters. I personally don't assume that Marty is that stupid taking any money because that would cut his future income stream. Lots of things still need to be talked about and people are willing to pay for secrets.

So it seems to me that qualifying Marty's apology is completely missing the point. If Miller would be a lime light nobody, there wouldn't be a public apology because it would be useless. Public apologies are purposeful marketing, disguised manipulation if you want. Or did anybody ever really mean what he wrote in the liability formula??? Helloooo!

I appreciate Marty's persistence. However, also I couldn't but notice that Marty seems to leave a trail of chaos and destruction behind him wherever he sets his feet.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

I appreciate Marty's persistence. However, also I couldn't but notice that Marty seems to leave a trail of chaos and destruction behind him wherever he sets his feet.

You're depicting Marty Rathbun as an "SP," i.e., a "chaos merchant."

That may fit neatly into a groove in your Scientological brain, but it doesn't correspond with reality - certainly not in the last year or so.

Earlier, I had critiqued Marty's PR B.S. when he was the Marty Luther of Independent Scientology; however, that critiquing was done, always, with a recognition that, for most people, being a Scientologist, including an Independent Scientologist, is a temporary and transitional state. It was hoped that would be the case with Marty also, and it was.

Marty has evolved, and gradually has become more of a truth-teller.

It's an on-going evolution and, I think, it will continue, barring the possibility of a gag agreement that silences Marty.

By the way, do you still regard Paulette Cooper as a chaos merchant?


Your 'In defense of Hubbard' thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?33012-In-defence-of-Hubbard

 

[clamicide]

I have come to the point where I, for my own sanity, for the moment, need to not care about this apology. I've always said I'd be waiting for it... and yet....

I'm in no place to know whether or not it is sincere, and seriously, who gives a fuck if do or don't adjudicate it is done with a beneficial heart.

On the surface... yeah, it's good. But, I also know that from all the green on white, for Marty to help with the Mosey lawsuit, this would be the perfect move.

I fucking hate that my time in the cult has made me this cynical.

I hope to fuck that I'm just being cynical, and that this is a genuine gesture, instead of a calculated move borne of years of working within the OSA machine that would dictate this to be the best offensive/defensive move.

And (omg, I hate to say it), this sounds more of the Hubbardian days than the DM days, where the dwarf reacts with amazing stupidity... "If" Marty is plying Hubs tactics... he is playing upon Davy's lack of understanding of them...

 

[Terril park]

I appreciate Marty's persistence. However, also I couldn't but notice that Marty seems to leave a trail of chaos and destruction behind him wherever he sets his feet.

I think Tiny Fists has noticed this.

 

[clamicide]

I don't think Marty is all that difficult to understand.

He does what he does because he thinks it's the right thing to do (in his own head) - just like we all do.

He didn't do what he did in the CoS to piss you or anyone else off. He did it because he thought it was right (in his own head). He isn't battling DM in a courtroom to make you happy, he's doing what he thinks is the right thing to do for his family & his future.

People tend to assign these grand motives to public people. I don't think they are any different to you or I. We all do what we think is best for ourselves, our families, our friends, mankind or whatever is floating our boat on any given day.

We like to think we would have acted differently were we ever in Rathbun or Rinder's shoes. "Oh I would never have stopped Russell Millers Book" you might think to yourself. Really?

We were in a cult. We were programmed. We believed we were the only people who had the truth & we were saving mankind. I don't know about you but when I was in Scn I was the best Course Sup I could be. Then I was the best TTCer I could be. Then I was the best intern I could be. Then I was the best auditor I could be. I was driven because I was "special" and I had a very important job to do. I thank my lucky stars I was never in HCO or OSA or I would have been the best Ethics officer I could be or the best PR person I could be, or the best spy, or best infiltrator etc.

Maybe some of you are better than me or Marty or Mike or Patty or Gary or anyone else who has admitted to doing fucked up things while in the CoS. Well good on you. But it begs the question, If you are that smart and your moral compass is infallible, why did you get into & stay in Scientology?

I think what might be frustrating is not that we are/were better (OMG, I was an asshole), and I know my moral compass is obviously skewed, and I'm not a genius (despite BS IQ scores) that it kind of can trigger some of us who pulled BS or were part and parcel in the cult, and now and here where we are trying to heal, seeing that same stuff going on gets weird. And, it might NOT really be happening, but that's the bitch of PTSD if you have it, sometimes you fucking react.

I can't say where anyone is in their own healing process--and I can't say that some folks will ever come out. I say shit sometimes. There is stuff where I do react... and I like that we have the freedom to do that here.

Marty tends to piss me off because I've met people whose lives became a personal hell because of ops he either ran or was a part of. It's a bias. I admit that. And his apology is exactly in line with, and apologizing in a way that I would fully expect from someone trained by OSA.

That does not mean it's not sincere, and perhaps his training kicked in beneficially, but I'm still trying to undo the cult programming, and I'd feel a lot better if I hadn't said something like this was coming to my son.... Again, I hate that my time in Scientology has made me so cynical, and I hope this is an honest appeal.

 

[Terril park]

I have come to the point where I, for my own sanity, for the moment, needs to not care about this apology. I've always said I'd be waiting for it... and yet....

I'm in no place to know whether or not it is sincere, and seriously, who gives a fuck if do or don't adjudicate it is done with a beneficial heart.

On the surface... yeah, it's good. But, I also know that from all the green on white, for Marty to help with the Mosey lawsuit, this would be the perfect move.

I fucking hate that my time in the cult has made me this cynical.

I hope to fuck that I'm just being cynical, and that this is a genuine gesture, instead of a calculated move borne of years of working within the OSA machine that would dictate this to be the best offensive/defensive move.

And (omg, I hate to say it), this sounds more of the Hubbardian days than the DM days, where the dwarf reacts with amazing stupidity... "If" Marty is plying Hubs tactics... he is playing upon Davy's lack of understanding of them...

Marty's been firing intercontinental missiles recently from his blog. I'm sure Davy understands them......


"The Aims of Scientology: Part One
Posted on March 4, 2014 by martyrathbun09 | 212 comments

From a Guardian’s Order converted to OSA Network Order (successor to Guardian’s Office as the dirty tricks and propaganda arm of corporate Scientology):

(Originally written on 2 December 1969 by L. Ron Hubbard as a summary of data concerning Intelligence.)

Our war has been forced to become “To take over absolutely the field of mental
healing on this planet in all forms.” That was not the original purpose. The original purpose was to clear Earth.

The battles suffered developed the data that we had an enemy who would have to be gotten out of the way and this meant we were at war. We, a year ago, identified the enemy or at least his central group. Since then we fight battles first on our own ground, now on his.

Our tactics of offense and defense are based on data. We need data to predict his offensives and counter them and data to use in our attacks on him. We remove his agents and vanquish his troops and we directly attack his central group. That’s sound tactics.

By demonstrating his falsity about us we rehab our own repute. By showing his
sources to be false we get them expended. By showing him to be brutal, venal and plotting, we get him discarded. Our direct assault will come when they start to arrest his principals and troops for crimes (already begun).

Our total victory will come when we run his organizations, perform his functions and obtain his financing and appropriations."