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Rathbun's book - REVIEWS!

Marty has a bit of a problem in that he is trying to define or, rather, redefine a person he never personally knew or interacted with face to face whom he worships. Marty does so despite the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of words of accounts from folks that did know El Ron from a span of 40 years of Hisself’s adult life and entire tenure at St Hill and as the CommoDoor.

Urq knew El Ron better than I did and would most likely say I have been too harsh on Hisself…Kima also knew El Ron better than me and would most likely say I have been too soft. What is important, to me, is that their words, the words of others and my words are out there, permanently, as “tiles to the mosaic” that anyone can read and to help put together their own personal view and picture. Also, there are folks like Larry Wright and future Biographers and Historians that will be aided with enough “tiles” for a full and accurate perspective of El Ron and Scn.

Unless Marty’s book actually reveals stuff…new stuff…from his time as Chief Inspector Goon, it adds nothing of value to the “mosaic”, IMHO. Funny thing to me is—having personally known El Ron—I think he’d be pissed as Hell at both DM and MR for a number of reasons.

I appreciate your appreciation of my writings. The only reason they exist is because of all Y’all here…it’s stuff I thought Y’all had paid the price for, so to speak, and had a right to know and, from what I had read on the Net, would not be redundant, trivial or trite.

Peace.:yes:


Face:)

Facey, YOU are the one who should be published..how's the writing project coming along? :) Love you! :happydance:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Well I got the book yesterday and finished reading it earlier today.

I put a review in to Amazon but don't know if they will publish it.

I tried to be neutral and just speak from my heart with my honest opinions.

Here is what I submitted FWIW:


:goodposting:
 
And then there's Walter Braddeson's Scientology for the Millions from the naive 1960s.

516Xnk4mR2L._SL500_AA300_.jpg


And, yes, dammit, will one of you - preferably an important "wog" - read and give a glowing review to Marty's book!?

Marty wrote the book, mainly, for the wogs and for future raw meat, so key-out sufficiently from your R6 implants and Gorilla Goals, for just a few minutes, and write an appreciative review!!!!

Do it for Marty! :yes:

LOL!!!!! :dieslaughing: Not me!!! :no:

Seriously, I'd like to read this..."Walter Braddeson's Scientology for the Millions from the naive 1960s." Is it out of print? :confused2:
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Well I got the book yesterday and finished reading it earlier today.

I find it interesting, if no one else does. It's a prolonged glimpse into the mind of a man who spent a quarter of a century at the top echelon of the cult that suckered me in and held me in thrall for a decade.

JustMe and Jquepublic, thank you much.

Very interesting comments by you two, who are brave enough to read "the book." :thumbsup:

(I'm not.) :nervous: :nervous:

Since what's kept most people on the hamster wheel and constantly rearranging their lives and finances for 10-20-40 years was the promise of OT8 (the super-duper late 60's -70's version) and in 399R the promise of OT 9-15 (existing in note form ready to be written up), I'm curious how Marty skates around the missing and/or never-existent upper OT levels. Or if he does at all.

Last I read Hubbard was trying to get Mayo to research them and write them. Months later . . . well, we all know how that ended, don't we?

What does Marty have to say about that since he was involved in the "cover-up" for decades and the selling of something that the higher-ups at Int factually knew didn't exist, but they still kept promoting? Promising. The carrot of all spiritual carrots hung out there.

If they would have gotten up on stage in '86 and said, the old man left us nothing . . . you're on your own. Well, that would have been a lot better posture than lying and accepting money for decades for something that they knew they couldn't ever deliver. :angry:

It's like the Madoff ponzi scheme. Taking massive investments under a false promise and written agreement. Some people actually put money down on OT 9 and 10. There were ads created for these mythical services. :angry: In any other business arena this falls under deceptive advertising and knowing fraud.

On that point alone, I will never trust the guy. Lying for decades? How do you do that?

But I'm curious how he dances around it. A lot of people that are still in (some who are very decent people at heart and I've known for decades) will be very pissed and shattered when they find out about that lie . . . the non-existent upper OT levels. And they will very soon. :omg: In the next year or two. Tooth paste out of tube!

(End of rant. A bit too close to home there.) :roflmao:

Any comments about this by readers of "the book" really welcome. I'm curious. :yes:

ILove2Lurk
 
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Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've been wondering lately if Slappy is actually trying to destroy his cult so he can head off to Bulgravia sooner rather than later. Maybe he's just had enough.

It would only make sense, at this point. The whole gig is getting too absurd.
Perhaps, we are looking at the epic beginning of the end.
Good luck, Marty.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I haven't read the book, only parts of it, so I haven't written a review, however, I have observed tendencies in Marty Rathbun's other writings - dishonest tendencies. These concern me more then simple - honest - differences of opinion.

Marty Rathbun begins his book by telling us that we shouldn't take L. Ron Hubbard literally. Only having read part of the book, that's a disturbing sign.

One wonders if, in the chapter on the OT levels, he will insist that "Incident two" (best known to "wogs" from the TV cartoon show South Park) is only a misunderstood metaphor or allegory.

It's natural to wonder, as he's already done just that.

These are two reasons why I recommend caution when reading this book: the signs are that it will attempt to manipulate.

The following is some re-posted material from fairly recent discussions.


From Ron's Journal 67:

The material involved in this sector is so vicious that it is carefully arranged to kill :nervous:anyone if he discovers the exact truth of it.

So in January and February of this year, I became very ill, almost lost the body, and somehow or other brought it off and obtained the material, and was able to live through it.

I am very sure that I was the fist one that ever did live through any attempt to obtain that material. This material I'm talking about, of course, is very upper level material and you will forgive me if I don't describe it to you in very broad detail because it is very likely :ohmy:to make you sick too.



One might ask, what is "the material involved in ths sector" that "is so vicious"?

It is the detail (the "time, place, form, and event") of the 4th dynamic engram - as described by Hubbard - called Incident 2 of OT 3 of 75 million years ago.

"Engrams" according to Scientology, are recorded on "time tracks," and they are extremely "literal." They are exact and must be "perfectly duplicated" so as to be "as ised." In the case of Incident 2 of OT 3, the material (the super engram) was so vicious that only a jumbo-sized thetan, with a humongous theta endowment, was able to confront the "time, place, form, and event" of this super-engram and survive, to not only talk about it, but to map the way for others through it, thus removing the final barrier to full Operating Thetan and godlike powers for all Scientologists, and for the "Wogs" once they become Scientologists.

The material of the book 'History of Man' is not part of OT 3, but the approach to "handling" any "invalidators " can be traced back to H.O.M.:

From the 'History of Man' ["This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years"] by L. Ron Hubbard, early 1952, originally titled 'What to Audit':

"Tell people who want to invalidate all this, 'Your criticism is very just. It's only fantasy.'"


The "It's only an allegory"-angle is a similar PR "handling" - to be used on those at lower awareness levels - but it's an extension of Hubbard's 1952 PR "handling" of occasionally troublesome "Homo Saps."

It works like this: If it sounds really dumb or crazy, or is exposed as a lie, in front of any particular person or "public," not dumb or gullible enough to believe it, then, immediately, claim that it - whatever it was - is a metaphor, an allegory, a joke, a symbolic representation used as a teaching aid, etc. If this doesn't work, claim it was taken out of context, or that the complaining or ridiculing person or "public" are literal-minded, etc.

In fact, the idea of the "literalizing of L. Ron Hubbard" was re-introduced, recently, by Marty Rathbun.

This is just a more gentle fashion - a "lower gradient" - of saying there's something really wrong with the "antagonistic" person or "public."

"Why are you making fun of L. Ron Hubbard?
LRH_legacy.jpg
There must be something wrong with you!
"

It's a form of bullshitting which is used to cover an earlier bullshitting. It's actually pretty "workable," in that a fair number of people seem to fall for it, which means, incidentally, that it's likely to continue.

An example of this would be a Scientology "OT" telling a ridiculing or "nattering" "Wog" - who has just seen the South Park episode exposing OT 3 - that "it's only fantasy." This, of course, would be an example of following Hubbard's instructions on dealing with "Homo Saps" - instructions that dates back to 1952, and were included in the book, 'History of Man'.

These are old "handlings."

For example, this is what David Gaiman, then Public Relations Director for Scientology in England, told Paulette Cooper, in 1971, when asked about the billion year Sea Org contract:

From question/answer #19, in the 'Appendix' of Cooper's book:

19. (from Cooper) "DO THE SEA ORG PEOPLE SIGN A BILLION YEAR CONTRACT?"

(From Gaiman) "Never make an allegoric joke near literal minded humorless reporters."


Not surprisingly, it does appear that Rathbun regards the findings of the Armstrong vs Church of Scientology court case, as being problematic. Something to be overcome, and discredited.

He has recently spun this, confusing a fair a number of people in the process, by seeming to say that Gerry Armstrong was right about his concerns about the misrepresentations in Hubbard's many mini-biographies. However Rathbun insists that Hubbard did not lie, but was only misunderstood.

So, Armstrong (and Omar Garrison, and Judge Breckenridge) were wrong - very wrong - in holding L. Ron Hubbard up to ridicule, in Armstrong vs Church of Scientology, in 1984.

Excerpts from the 20 June 1984 findings of Judge Breckenridge:

"As indicated by its factual findings, the court finds the testimony of Gerald and Joycelyn Armstrong, Laurel Sullivan, Nancy Dincalcis, Edward Walters, Omar Garrison, Kima Douglas, and Howard Schomer to be credible, extremely persuasive... In all critical and important matters their testimony was precise, accurate and rang true...

"Each has broken with the movement for a variety of reasons, but at the same time, each is still bound by the knowledge that the Church has in its possession his or her own most inner thoughts and confessions, all recorded in 'pre-clear' folders, or other security files of the organization, and that the Church or its minions is fully capable of physical intimidation, or other physical or psychological abuse if it suits their ends. The record is replete with evidence of such abuse.

"In addition to violating and abusing its own members' civil rights, the organization over the years with its 'Fair Game' doctrine has harassed and abused those persons not in the Church whom it perceives as enemies.

"The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements.

"The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.

"At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents...

"Obviously, he is and was a very complex person, and that complexity is further reflected in his alter-ego, the Church of Scientology. Notwithstanding protestations to the contrary, this court is satisfied that LRH runs the Church in all ways, through the Sea Organization, his role as Commodore, and the Commodore's Messengers.

"He has, of course, chosen to go into 'seclusion', but he maintains contact and control through his top messengers.

"Seclusion has its light and dark side too. It adds to his mystique, and yet shields him from accountability and subpoena and service of summons.

"LRH's wife, Mary Sue Hubbard, is also a plaintiff herein. On the one hand she certainly appeared to be a pathetic individual. She was forced from her post as Controller, convicted and imprisoned as a felon, and deserted by her husband
."


From 1985, discussing the Judge Breckenridge findings, and featuring ex-official biographer Omar Garrison, CofS PR person Heber Jentzsch, and Scientology attorney Earl Cooley. (They also feel that Hubbard didn't lie, but was only misunderstood.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Drk3eVQSg&feature=player_embedded

So Marty has his work cut out for him on his mission to salvage L. Ron Hubbard's "image" and "good name," and L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology's "image" and reputation.

He's had, and likely will continue to have, some success, due to his application of Hubbard's Propaganda Tech, specifically his use of Hubbard's 2 January 1972 confidential issue 'Black Propaganda'. Marty Rathbun has successfully identified himself, and Independent Scientology, as the "attackers of the popularly considered evil" of David Miscavige.

However, now it becomes trickier. If Marty Rathbun is going to move into full "handle to Homo Saps" (and the "ARC broken" field) mode, with decades old PR gimmicks, albeit modernized for a more sophisticated world of the Internet, he may find himself on thin ice.


Written not very long ago...

'Ode to L. Ron Hubbard' by Marty Rathbun

You said your legacy would be the tech
but the dictator said otherwise
and the church began its demise
and hurt came to those who would object

You said there was no hidden data line
but the dictator said he knew better
and burned all of your policy letters
and the church went into long term decline

You said the tech was timeless and free
but the dictator wanted power and cash
and made your truth a confusing hash
and status and greed replaced the state of OT

You acknowledged the loyalty of your gracious wife
but the dictator used her as a stepping stone
and she died forgotten, friendless and alone
and thus he erased your dear Manuela [Simon Bolivar's girlfriend] from your life

You raised three fine children and one who died too soon
but the dictator wanted them forgotten too
and your progeny turned from sunshine to blue
and the many who loved you wept under a sorrowful moon

You had faith that your friends would make it come out right
but the dictator mis-used your treasure to enervate them
and black dianetics, reverse scientology internecine mayhem
and with violence did he destroy their willingness to fight

You said only truth could penetrate thick armor plate
and though the dictator protested this fact
it was your ace in the hole that has our back
and everyday now more are working to reverse your fate

And alas, it may take time and a perilous struggle
but we assure you it is too late to reverse our tide
you’ve got friends to the end of time on your side
and come hell or high water we’ll emerge from this jungle

Because we know you were right that the truth shall set us free
and that is one thing no dictator will ever take away
it will be your real friends standing at the end of day
humanity freed, the only proper acknowledgment of thee



Now, back to the topic!

I've seen some of the (confidential) LRH PPRO (Professional Public Relations Officer) materials from late 1970s/early 1980s. Hubbard was very concerned with the preservation of his name and image.

It was all "confidential," and almost anything that is visible and publicized in Scientology, or having to do with L. Ron Hubbard, has a confidential side.

Personally, I don't think Hubbard cared who ran and maintained his front group-surrounded and mental-healing/religion-coated fan club (in their own cynical self-interest with accompanying perks), as long as he/she/they preserved his name and protected and preserved his "image," and maintained the "LRH = Survival"-gimmick, to ensure that other people would assist in the preservation of his name and "image" - to ensure their well-being, their "eternities," etc. etc.

Miscavige is currently the caretaker for the Hubbard monuments, more than anything else, and, as a result, he has certain perks. Certainly, being surrounded by the recipients of Hubbard's mind-manipulation operation, that "asserted and maintained dominion over thoughts and loyalties," makes it easy for him to enjoy being a bullying dictator - still, he must operate within the already existing cult framework.

From a 1989 issue of 'Hotline', an internal 'newsletter' for Scientology LRH PRs:

"...it is LRH's image on which all the rest of our expansion depends. To the degree that LRH is made the stable terminal in society, people will reach for his books and services and we can get them on the Bridge to Total Freedom ."

Hubbard set up the ultimate fan club, one that believes that the survival and well being of Mankind, life, the universe and everything, depends on his "being well thought of."

What Marty Rathbun&Friends are doing is largely a PR action to rehabilitate the image and reputation of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.

From Marty's Rathbun blog:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day. Tony Ortega has even come to the conclusion that my mission -and the mission of many independents - is made hopeless by this historical landscape. The landscape is not easy to conceptualize given its long lived nature and Miscavige's daily efforts to make the myths a reality. [Note: the negative Scientology 'myths' - which are usually true - are denounced by both CofS and outside the CoS PR people.] Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves..." [Referring to the envisioned LRH biography.]

And,

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard."

Marty&Mike and other Independent Scientologists are doing an, apparently, self-assigned PR action for the religion-angled, religion-cloaked, cult of Hubbard, which, ultimately, includes both the CofS Scientology and outside the CofS Scientology, a.k.a. "Greater Scientology." If Rathbun&Friends succeed, to any extent, then, in the long run, the CofS will benefit, once it is rid of Miscavige.

After all, their founder's "image" will have been rehabilitated.

Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are 'tied up' under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, 'OT I and OT II are of little importance': especially coming from 'Class VIIIs','Class VIs' and folks claiming to be 'trained by Ron'. They may as well be saying 'Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron'.

"...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work..."

Etc.

Marty&Friend's objective may be unrealistic, and the Internet age makes it even more challenging, but at least by pointing it out, some things might be explained and better understood.


As for the attempts to "de-humanize" Hubbard in the public mind, an early attempt is described by Hubbard in his confidential issue, "Intelligence Actions, Covert Intelligence Data Collection' of 2 December 1969. It describes events of 1950:

"The objective of the enemy is to discredit ...

"Their first blast was the San Francisco papers, Sept. 1950, quoting the publisher (of Book One) Ceppos being critical of me (he was a communist) followed by the LA papers, pushed then by Sara Komkovadamanov (alias Northrup) 'divorce' actions, followed by attempted kidnapping of myself. Other details were pushed into it including murder of four and so on. This was a full complete covert operation. At the back of it was Miles Hollister (psychology student), Sara Komkovadamanov (housekeeper at the place nuclear physicists stayed near Cal Tech), Gene Benton and his wife - president of the Young Communists League ...

"This was a full war against Dianetics ..."

Note: all the above parentheses are from the original.

And regarding the same time period...

From a 1977 recorded message, 'Can we Ever Be Friends?':

"Possibly any trouble Dianetics or Scientology ever had began on May 9, 1950 when the U.S government, excited by the possibility of Hubbard's work, sought to force him into classified government service.

"In Washington, they told him they wanted him to work on projects to make people more suggestible. When he declined they threatened and, typically, he refused to bow.

"And the war between the government and Scientology was on."

There's another version of this from the 1978 edition of 'What is Scientology?'. It ends with:

"The government never forgave him for this and soon began vicious, covert international attacks on his work. "

The above two accounts, re. the U.S. government, were taken from a recorded lecture from the early 1950s.


According to Hubbard there were repeated attempts by both the Russians and the US government to take possession of his work on the mind.

The first, according to Hubbard, was the late 1930s theft, by the Russian KGB, of his 'Excalibur' manuscript.

However, his skills as a nuclear physicist were also coveted by the US government. Here's Hubbard explaining that, during World War II, he was repeatedly asked to work on the Manhattan Project (the secret project building the atomic bomb), and each time refused, and each time was sent into a combat theater as punishment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-6I-d4jK0

So, was Hubbard lying to Scientologists :unsure:(above), or was this simply an allegoric teaching tool?:yes:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
..

Snippet from Martyworld review:

. . . Since I left Scientology Inc., I have no longer considered myself a Scientologist, Independent or otherwise. I still may not call myself one, but I will say that your book REHABILITATED me. It reminded me of my original purpose after reading Dianetics: I wanted to go Clear! I now feel like that is something I actually would still like someday. I also used to have a very strong purpose to be an auditor. That is pretty much all but dead now. But your chapter on Training did make me think . . .


I shit you not.

Some of these reviews are coming across less as reviews and more as success stories, complete with with duplicated floating-needle acceptable EPs .
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've been wondering lately if Slappy is actually trying to destroy his cult so he can head off to Bulgravia sooner rather than later. Maybe he's just had enough.
There has certainly been a spate of damage in the last few weeks. After the Debbie Cook email, I wondered what was going through the minds of the Scientologists who were still in.

There have been times like this in the past where Scientology seems to get hammered all at once from multiple directions. In the past, most of the events seemed to be driven by the press and by critics and Nick Xenophon.

Now it seems to be falling apart from the inside. The JT photos, DMs father leaving, Debbie Cook, Wendy Honor and now Katie Holmes are all happening from within Scientology. I don't think Davey is in control here.

The big concern at this point is that David still has living witnesses who are being imprisoned. The closer it comes to the end, the more likely they are to be harmed.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I haven't read the book, only parts of it, so I haven't written a review, however, I have observed tendencies in Marty Rathbun's other writings - dishonest tendencies.

Really? Marty dishonest? Say it isn't so.

Gee, I wonder where he got THAT from? :duh:

I will give the readers a hint - the fellow's name who Marty emulates and copies in terms of deceitful behavior rhymes with "Blubbard".

And, I suppose hanging out with OSA types for many years sure didn't hurt with the ready willingness to employ slight-of-hand and trickery when trying to mold the opinions and beliefs of certain people.
 
..

Snippet from Martyworld review:

. . . Since I left Scientology Inc., I have no longer considered myself a Scientologist, Independent or otherwise. I still may not call myself one, but I will say that your book REHABILITATED me. It reminded me of my original purpose after reading Dianetics: I wanted to go Clear! I now feel like that is something I actually would still like someday. I also used to have a very strong purpose to be an auditor. That is pretty much all but dead now. But your chapter on Training did make me think . . .


I shit you not.

Some of these reviews are coming across less as reviews and more as success stories, complete with with duplicated floating-needle acceptable EPs .

That reminds me of some of the testimonials in the over the top infomercials where someone, loses 50 lbs, and earns 5 million dollars over the weekend, while gaining 5 inches in penis length, after listening to a self-help cd.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
I know I shouldn't say this but those three idiots on the cover of the book am I the only one who thinks that they must have made some major faux-pas on lines for Miscavige - like farting during his speech or something?

I mean seriously how badly do you have to have fucked up to humiliate yourself in such a grotesque fashion?

I mean how the hell are you ever going to explain to people why you were dressed up wearing a camera on your head? All they needed to make things worse would have been to have peacock feathers coming out of their butts.

Jesus - did Scientologists lose all sense of self worth in the 20 years since I got out?

OMG! I wet my pants reading this, Mick!

TG1
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
JustMe,

Thank you for reading the book and for the review you posted here. Nicely, nicely done. I hope it will be quoted and discussed on many other review sites, boards and blogs.

:thumbsup:

TG1
 

JustMe

Patron Meritorious
............ what's kept most people on the hamster wheel and constantly rearranging their lives and finances for 10-20-40 years was the promise of OT8 (the super-duper late 60's -70's version) and in 399R the promise of OT 9-15 (existing in note form ready to be written up), I'm curious how Marty skates around the missing and/or never-existent upper OT levels. Or if he does at all..............What does Marty have to say about that since he was involved in the "cover-up" for decades and the selling of something that the higher-ups at Int factually knew didn't exist, but they still kept promoting? Promising. The carrot of all spiritual carrots hung out there...........................But I'm curious how he dances around it. A lot of people that are still in (some who are very decent people at heart and I've known for decades) will be very pissed and shattered when they find out about that lie . . . the non-existent upper OT levels. And they will very soon. :omg: In the next year or two. Tooth paste out of tube!

(End of rant. A bit too close to home there.) :roflmao:

Any comments about this by readers of "the book" really welcome. I'm curious. :yes:

ILove2Lurk

Hiya Love:)

In the book Marty said that there were no such OT Levels and that it was all a scam.

OT VIII is where it ends.

I was IDIOT enough back in the day to pay $33,000 to help get the [STRIKE]Asbestowinds[/STRIKE] Freewinds ready with my "award" being OT VIII and IX. I, like many others, was completely defrauded. It was all a scam back then as it remains a scam to this day.

I hope that this information gets out broadly to scientologists of all flavors (in, out, indee, freezone, whatever). The blacklash from this would be something to behold I think.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hiya Love:)

In the book Marty said that there were no such OT Levels and that it was all a scam.

OT VIII is where it ends.

I was IDIOT enough back in the day to pay $33,000 to help get the [STRIKE]Asbestowinds[/STRIKE] Freewinds ready with my "award" being OT VIII and IX. I, like many others, was completely defrauded. It was all a scam back then as it remains a scam to this day.

I hope that this information gets out broadly to scientologists of all flavors (in, out, indee, freezone, whatever). The blacklash from this would be something to behold I think.

So, when Pat Broeker held up that worksheet with the "big date" on it at the LRH Death Event, in January 1986, and said it was part of an upper OT level, he was fibbing, as was Hubbard when he, in various places, told Scientologists there were many upper levels in note form.

I recall Marty saying that when they raided Pat Broeker's residence, searching for Hubbard's notes for the upper OT levels, they found nothing, which confirmed what I had heard years earlier from others, but I've also heard Marty say that there are notes, but that Miscavige is a terrible compiler, and, also, that there are no upper OT levels but that Hubbard's writings and lectures contain all one needs to know to, eventually, make it to OT.

So, this is interesting.

Did Marty actually use the word, "scam"?
 

Veda

Sponsor
JustMe and Jquepublic, thank you much.

Very interesting comments by you two, who are brave enough to read "the book." :thumbsup:

(I'm not.) :nervous: :nervous:

Since what's kept most people on the hamster wheel and constantly rearranging their lives and finances for 10-20-40 years was the promise of OT8 (the super-duper late 60's -70's version) and in 399R the promise of OT 9-15 (existing in note form ready to be written up), I'm curious how Marty skates around the missing and/or never-existent upper OT levels. Or if he does at all.

Last I read Hubbard was trying to get Mayo to research them and write them. Months later . . . well, we all know how that ended, don't we?

What does Marty have to say about that since he was involved in the "cover-up" for decades and the selling of something that the higher-ups at Int factually knew didn't exist, but they still kept promoting? Promising. The carrot of all spiritual carrots hung out there.

If they would have gotten up on stage in '86 and said, the old man left us nothing . . . you're on your own. Well, that would have been a lot better posture than lying and accepting money for decades for something that they knew they couldn't ever deliver. :angry:

It's like the Madoff ponzi scheme. Taking massive investments under a false promise and written agreement. Some people actually put money down on OT 9 and 10. There were ads created for these mythical services. :angry: In any other business arena this falls under deceptive advertising and knowing fraud.

On that point alone, I will never trust the guy. Lying for decades? How do you do that?

But I'm curious how he dances around it. A lot of people that are still in (some who are very decent people at heart and I've known for decades) will be very pissed and shattered when they find out about that lie . . . the non-existent upper OT levels. And they will very soon. :omg: In the next year or two. Tooth paste out of tube!

(End of rant. A bit too close to home there.) :roflmao:

Any comments about this by readers of "the book" really welcome. I'm curious. :yes:

ILove2Lurk


From HCOB 'Tech Correction Round Up' of 24 January 1977:

"X: Advanced Grades

"For a number of years people have asked when will OT VIII will be released.

"Well, to tell you the honest truth, OT VIII has been in existence all those several years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence
. "

Hubbard then went on to state that he needed three months to write up his notes, if Orgs get their stats up, etc., etc.

Marty stating that there are no upper OT levels makes a liar out of Hubbard, so it's going to be difficult for Marty not to say that Hubbard deliberately lied to Scientologists.

I'd like to see the actual quote on this.

If Marty is frank and direct about it, then this would be a breakthrough moment for Marty in his self-deprogramming.

Years earlier, David Mayo, and others, had said much the same thing, and I and others listened, but now the Marty people have no choice but to listen to Marty - unless it's somehow rationalized away.

Moving over to the topic of Clear, I guess it would be too much to expect for Marty to also now be agreeing with David Mayo that Hubbard's tech pronouncements, regarding "Clear," were motivated by PR and marketing considerations.

One step at a time.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Well, OK.

Since this is a thread in MartyWorld, I'll post the link to the full back story.

But be advised, it takes you to Marty's site.

So if you're at all nervous about that, don't click on the link.

Or just wrap a package of Reynolds Wrap® Aluminum Foil around your head first.

It will protect you from any harm for at least 30 minutes, while you read the post.
After that, no promises. :yes::yes:

RW_Core_Carton.jpg

Here Marty discusses the whole "upper OT levels" lie in stark detail:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/the-land-of-milk-and-honey-and-virgins-galore/

The post is VERY interesting if you want to know the whole back story.

Plus some other comments Marty made about the "holy grail" OT levels later on that day and the next:


martyrathbun09
| August 6, 2010 at 6:40 pm |
Dan, If you believe “there are in fact, solo levels beyond OT VIII” you are in for a surprise. Not from L Ron Hubbard. All the speculation is meaningless if you actually experience what I put down in the last para of the post.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 2:25 pm |
Read previous answer to similar question. Many things changed – including numbering of levels by LRH AFTER that comment by LRH. What I am saying – once again – is do what is available. If you do so, my position is you will get to a point where the need for the next level won’t exist.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 4:10 pm |
. . .
To the extent someone wants to believe in IX and X, and XI to XV for that matter, more power to ‘em. To the extent someone wants to turn people into financial criminals on the promise of attaining something that I know does not exist (a detailed path left behind by L Ron Hubbard to follow beyond what already exists and is largely available) I’m going to blow the whistle. If the whistle don’t ring true to you, more power to you. I sleep well at nights and thoroughly enjoy each day.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 8:58 pm |
You know as well as I do. My opinion, a TOTAL IMPLANT. To give the idea that after OT VII, an OT is going to direct himself to dates like this [Pat Broeker showing long date at death event] is so far OPPOSITE the direction of OT VIII and the way out; it couldn’t be more polar opposite. Ok – for the idiots hoping Pat Broeker is going to come save them – he was drinking up to a case of beer a day when this video was shot.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 10:32 pm |
Idiots because they think someone other than themselves is going to need to appear to set themselves free. Do the bridge and learn all along the way in myriad ways how you are the only one who can set you free. If one has much familiarity with the subject, and any OT case gain to speak of, and is looking for someone to come along and splain it to him, still he is an idiot (and that is putting it mild).

Don't shoot the messenger . . . me! :roflmao:

ILove2Lurk
 
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Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Don't shoot the messenger . . . me! :roflmao:

ILove2Lurk

Not at all. :) This is good stuff.

Marty, on the one hand, is attempting to pull the plug on Miscavige's operation by announcing there are no more OT levels (which has been known by some for years), but he's struggling to not, at the same time, pull the plug on his own operation, or on non-Miscavige Scientology, and L. Ron Hubbard's "good name," and Hubbard's Scientology's "good name."

Awkward.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, OK.

Since this is a thread in MartyWorld, I'll post the link to the full back story.

But be advised, it takes you to Marty's site.

So if you're at all nervous about that, don't click on the link.

Or just wrap a package of Reynolds Wrap® Aluminum Foil around your head first.

It will protect you from any harm for at least 30 minutes, while you read the post.
After that, no promises. :yes::yes:

RW_Core_Carton.jpg

Here Marty discusses the whole "upper OT levels" lie in stark detail:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/the-land-of-milk-and-honey-and-virgins-galore/

The post is VERY interesting if you want to know the whole back story.

Plus some other comments Marty made about the "holy grail" OT levels later on that day and the next:


martyrathbun09
| August 6, 2010 at 6:40 pm |
Dan, If you believe “there are in fact, solo levels beyond OT VIII” you are in for a surprise. Not from L Ron Hubbard. All the speculation is meaningless if you actually experience what I put down in the last para of the post.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 2:25 pm |
Read previous answer to similar question. Many things changed – including numbering of levels by LRH AFTER that comment by LRH. What I am saying – once again – is do what is available. If you do so, my position is you will get to a point where the need for the next level won’t exist.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 4:10 pm |
. . .
To the extent someone wants to believe in IX and X, and XI to XV for that matter, more power to ‘em. To the extent someone wants to turn people into financial criminals on the promise of attaining something that I know does not exist (a detailed path left behind by L Ron Hubbard to follow beyond what already exists and is largely available) I’m going to blow the whistle. If the whistle don’t ring true to you, more power to you. I sleep well at nights and thoroughly enjoy each day.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 8:58 pm |
You know as well as I do. My opinion, a TOTAL IMPLANT. To give the idea that after OT VII, an OT is going to direct himself to dates like this [Pat Broeker showing long date at death event] is so far OPPOSITE the direction of OT VIII and the way out; it couldn’t be more polar opposite. Ok – for the idiots hoping Pat Broeker is going to come save them – he was drinking up to a case of beer a day when this video was shot.

martyrathbun09
| August 7, 2010 at 10:32 pm |
Idiots because they think someone other than themselves is going to need to appear to set themselves free. Do the bridge and learn all along the way in myriad ways how you are the only one who can set you free. If one has much familiarity with the subject, and any OT case gain to speak of, and is looking for someone to come along and splain it to him, still he is an idiot (and that is putting it mild).

Don't shoot the messenger . . . me! :roflmao:

ILove2Lurk

F'n Party Wrecker!!!:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

Great Stuff, IL2L...A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y G-R-E-A-T S-T-U-F-F!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Face:)
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
OK, just for that, Face, here's a bit more. :omg: :yes::yes:

This was from an email (which was forwarded to me) written by a top career FSM around two years ago. Just about three months after Marty's posting on no OT 9 & 10.

This person (OT8, older, and very motivated to do more this lifetime) went to the Freewinds and apparently pressed them about when these upper OT levels were going to be released, and this is what the FSM came back with and distributed in writing to his/her people.

Read closely. This is obviously an attempt (though very transparent) by the execs to take back all previous promises and expectations. Take this as official as it can get. The source of this is very solid.
"UPDATE ON RELEASE OF OT IX AND X and beyond:

The word on OT IX is "no word," not just a nothing, but the positive statement that there is NO data, and any earlier "data" or rumors or such were all invalid, just guesses or rumors.

There is NO data, no estimate of date, no official conditional targets, no length of time to do them, solo or HGC or combination, etc.

Nothing that was rumored before is valid.

The message to OTs and anyone else wanting to have OT IX released is "make your Orgs into Ideal Orgs".

That is what is needed in order to get OT IX released. That is what we all should work on if we want to help get these upper OT levels released."
I've never seen anything "walked back" quite that hard before in my life. :no:

Three months after Marty's no OT 9 & 10 posting. :eyeroll:

What other proof do you need after that? :eyeroll:

ILove2Lurk
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Here's Hubbard's complete statement from January 1977:


HCOB Tech Correction Round Up 24 January 1977

X: Advanced Grades

For a number of years people have asked when will OT VIII will be released.

Well, to tell you the honest truth, OT VIII has been in existence all those several years, and to it has been added a very large number of OT grades. None of them have been issued. Notes for all these grades are in existence
.

What I have been waiting for is 2 or 3 months of free time to go over these materials and write them up and make them available through Advanced Organizations.

Now I will make a bargain with you. If you get all the tech straightened out and the orgs and flaps and emergencies off my lines and get your training in and your Word Clearing in and everything flying and this civilization even more pointed in a civilized direction, you will buy me those 3 months' worth of time so I will be able to afford the time to write up all these Advanced Levels I have researched. Do your job well and buy me these three months.

Is it a bargain?

L. Ron Hubbard

Founder


Then, a few years later, came the short piece titled 'From Clear to Eternity', where Hubbard, rather than telling the truth, went on about "the higher the level the longer the time," and used the word "eternity," was it 11 times?

Now, Marty Rathbun, who I thought, for a few seconds, was having a self-deprogramming breakthrough - by telling the truth that others had told 20 years earler - is angrily calling people idiots:angry:. (A sure sign of having reached the top of the Bridge):

"Idiots because they think someone other than themselves is going to need to appear to set themselves free. Do the bridge and learn all along the way in myriad ways how you are the only one who can set you free. If one has much familiarity with the subject, and any OT case gain to speak of, and is looking for someone to come along and splain it to him, still he is an idiot (and that is putting it mild)."


Hubbard couldn't just tell the truth, and I don't think Marty can either, not yet, not the full truth, not even to himself.

And if anyone can post it, I'd like to see what he says in his book on this topic.
 
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