Rathbun's first INFOMERCIAL is a bomb!

[Alanzo]

As long as Marty and his blog pull enough fence sitters out of the "church", I am pretty happy with it. Even if the flock just exchanges one black&white-think group for another.

And well, they at least let some dissenting voices be heard for now instead of blacking out the whole entire non-scieno world. Which will do nothing for the faithful but then again, there are the fence sitters who are more likely to read on the net when it's labelled Marty Rathbuns Theta Shack.

That's exactly why I post there.

Scientologists deserve rational arguments for things. They deserve the chance to speak and to question and to think about things. They deserve to have the right to disagree and to hash things out among themselves with no idea too evil to be spoken. That's what I thought I was joining when I first joined the Church of Scientology. I actually thought it would be like a Greek Symposium of Free Inquiry, where all kinds of new ideas were proposed and discussed in an atmosphere of open examination in the pursuit of knowledge. The reason I thought that it would be that way is because that is exactly what I was told it would be, in the Creed and elsewhere.

But the Church has denied Scientologists that, and denied us all that.

It is extremely good that Marty lets most of my posts, and others', through. If there is a high regard for the freedom of speech, there can not be a cult.

I just wish that he would attempt a rational argument once in a while for the stances he takes.

He's not used to being questioned in the Church. In fact, LRH actually forbids it with a "junior" and especially with a critic.

But, there will come a time, after living long enough in the real world, when Marty is going to see the need to explain himself rationally to his flock. And to provide them with sound, consistent reasoning for the directions he wants them to go in.

Marty will learn to respond to questioning without arrogance, without dead agent tech, and with a sound rationale instead.

And on that day, Scientology will have moved on up a little higher.

 

[Mystic]

That's exactly why I post there.

Scientologists deserve rational arguments for things. They deserve the chance to speak and to question and to think about things. They deserve to have the right to disagree and to hash things out among themselves with no idea too evil to be spoken. That's what I thought I was joining when I first joined the Church of Scientology. I actually thought it would be like a Greek Symposium of Free Inquiry, where all kinds of new ideas were proposed and discussed in an atmosphere of open examination in the pursuit of knowledge. The reason I thought that it would be that way is because that is exactly what I was told it would be, in the Creed and elsewhere.

But the Church has denied Scientologists that, and denied us all that.

It is extremely good that Marty lets most of my posts, and others', through. If there is a high regard for the freedom of speech, there can not be a cult.

I just wish that he would attempt a rational argument once in a while for the stances he takes.

He's not used to being questioned in the Church. In fact, LRH actually forbids it with a "junior" and especially with a critic.

But, there will come a time, after living long enough in the real world, that Marty is going to see the need to explain himself rationally to his flock. And to provide them with sound, consistent reasoning for the directions he wants them to go in.

Marty will learn to respond to questioning without arrogance, without dead agent tech, and with a sound rationale instead.

And on that day, Scientology will have moved on up a little higher.

In the early years scifaggOTry was quite a bit open as you stated; "I actually thought it would be like a Greek Symposium of Free Inquiry, where all kinds of new ideas were proposed and discussed in an atmosphere of open examination in the pursuit of knowledge."

And over the years I watched Hubbard-thing change that. When we would have a weekly "Staff Meeting", this was in 1957, of course the "Staff Meeting" was but a "Hubbard thing is going to spew some more."

And during his/its spews it would usually always include an opinion attack on someone in the field, Sylvan Stein, Jack Horner, Frank...Frank...I lost his last name, and others. With more and more usage of the term "squirrel" and "squirreling". It would opinionate against these folks who were directly contributing to the tech expansion of the subject in a free manner.

Hubbard thing couldn't stand it. It always had to be Me Me and an ever-magnifying MEEEEEEEE!!!

Fuck 'im/it.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

As Zinj says, letting Scientologists be Scientologists in front of witnesses, and for all the world to see, is the best form of criticism.

Inded yes. Marty's response was just priceless Al!

Couldn't answer the question so just defaulted to the priceless schoolyard response and managed to make himself look like a wanker.

 

[byte301]

I wouldn't give a damn about what Marty has to say except he's an enemy and I like to know what my enemies are up to. It doesn't matter what his message says. He could say he loves puppies and rainbows and I would question it.

He has an agenda and everything he says is to further that agenda one way or another. He can't expose his agenda so he has to beat around the fucking bush all the time and bash people like Alanzo who ask legitimate questions that he can't risk answering.

Besides...I'm still stuck on what Kathy said about Billy Mays dating a scilon!

 

[Alanzo]

In the early years scifaggOTry was quite a bit open as you stated; "I actually thought it would be like a Greek Symposium of Free Inquiry, where all kinds of new ideas were proposed and discussed in an atmosphere of open examination in the pursuit of knowledge."

And over the years I watched Hubbard-thing change that. When we would have a weekly "Staff Meeting", this was in 1957, of course the "Staff Meeting" was but a "Hubbard thing is going to spew some more."

And during his/its spews it would usually always include an opinion attack on someone in the field, Sylvan Stein, Jack Horner, Frank...Frank...I lost his last name, and others. With more and more usage of the term "squirrel" and "squirreling". It would opinionate against these folks who were directly contributing to the tech expansion of the subject in a free manner.

Hubbard thing couldn't stand it. It always had to be Me Me and an ever-magnifying MEEEEEEEE!!!

Fuck 'im/it.

Very interesting, Mystic.

I wonder if Marty will post your "Story of Ron" along with "Sarge's" this morning!

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Me and El Ron

Hey, I've post a number of "Up Close & Personal With El Ron" stories here on ESMB...Maybe Marty could post some of them as the "Anti-Sarge".

Face

 

[Cherished]

But your post was good, too, Cherished.

There is nothing wrong with a message of temperance, either.

Was that wishy-washy? Can anyone tell I am afraid of Australians?

No need to be afraid of me, Allen. And congrats on getting a "response" from Marty, although not an answer. His comments to those who don't agree with him show his weakness, IMO.

 

[Krautfag]

(As an aside, I currently live in Germany, and I am happy that the country is now reunited, though I wish the economy in the former east were doing better. It is precisely because Germany today is very different in some ways from what it once was, that Germany is particularly hostile to Scientology. While there is an elaborate tradition of polite tolerance for divergent views, the line does get drawn at cults with grandiose ambitions and exorbitant demands. Die Deutsche haben die Nase von solchen Dingen schon ganz voll.)

Oh, hi there

 

[Mark A. Baker]

In the same way critics might well say they would be happy to have two Scientologies. Each will attack the other more fiercely than any critic could. Each will face much higher pressure to demonstrate real benefits, to produce Clears and OTs.

All the more reason to support the freezone where there are hundreds of scientologies.

(As an aside, I currently live in Germany, and I am happy that the country is now reunited, though I wish the economy in the former east were doing better.

Yes, and with any luck some day all of europe will be so united. Although preferably not under german hegemony.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I actually thought it would be like a Greek Symposium of Free Inquiry, where all kinds of new ideas were proposed and discussed in an atmosphere of open examination in the pursuit of knowledge. The reason I thought that it would be that way is because that is exactly what I was told it would be, in the Creed and elsewhere.

BTW, symposia were actually drinking parties, for men exclusively of course. Only "non-respectable" women were allowed in attendance for entertainment. Much like guys getting together for beer & pizza today. If they are "wild guys" they have a wild time. If they are intellectually inclined then they discuss philosophy. Either way, it's a general piss-up.

The Co$ was more like the actual Athenian Democratic City State with its imperial ambitions and radical agenda towards which all were required to contribute for the greater good, rather than a symposium.


Mark A. BAker

 

[Whitedove]

Let me say something about independant scientologists. That is speculation on my part and I might be totally paranoide. It is just that with scientology, nothing and I mean NOTHING surprises me anymore.

Someone and I dont remember who mentioned one time that maybe and I say maybe MR is working FOR scientology. What if DM is seeing that scientology is really going to fall apart. Alot we know but I'm sure alot we dont know about what is happening legally. Sooo, with that in my mind, MR and company might be scientologists trying to built a 'new scientology' but not against DM but working with him? Plus, they are getting scientologists back because there has been so many scientologists leaving in the last years plus all the shit getting out in the light. They got to find a way to 'keep scientology working'? Getting the exes back by saying the tech was altered, etc. We are going to 'fix you'. DM might even have taken money and is planning a trip on a far away land for the rest of his life? Anything is possible. And dont tell me none of you tought about that type of thing.

I am truly speculating here. Just that there has been a few things happening to me in the last couple of months and I am starting to put 2 and 2 together. No, its not a=a. although a do equal a. a do not equal b or c

Whatever...that is my own sarcasm about it.

So, who will call me crazy first?

shit...and me who tought I was done with therapy!

 

[Alanzo]

Let me say something about independant scientologists. That is speculation on my part and I might be totally paranoide. It is just that with scientology, nothing and I mean NOTHING surprises me anymore.

Someone and I dont remember who mentioned one time that maybe and I say maybe MR is working FOR scientology. What if DM is seeing that scientology is really going to fall apart. Alot we know but I'm sure alot we dont know about what is happening legally. Sooo, with that in my mind, MR and company might be scientologists trying to built a 'new scientology' but not against DM but working with him? Plus, they are getting scientologists back because there has been so many scientologists leaving in the last years plus all the shit getting out in the light. They got to find a way to 'keep scientology working'? Getting the exes back by saying the tech was altered, etc. We are going to 'fix you'. DM might even have taken money and is planning a trip on a far away land for the rest of his life? Anything is possible. And dont tell me none of you tought about that type of thing.

I am truly speculating here. Just that there has been a few things happening to me in the last couple of months and I am starting to put 2 and 2 together. No, its not a=a. although a do equal a. a do not equal b or c

Whatever...that is my own sarcasm about it.

So, who will call me crazy first?

shit...and me who tought I was done with therapy!

I don't think you are crazy.

I think it is a distinct possibility.

Along with others, of course.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

WHICH OF THESE STATEMENTS IS CORRECT?

Ron is a delusional crazy guy.

Ron is a criminal con man.

DM is a delusional crazy guy.

DM is a criminal con man.

Marty is a delusional crazy guy.

Marty is a criminal con man.​

(hint: you can pick more than one)

 

[Mark A. Baker]

It is extremely good that Marty lets most of my posts, and others', through. If there is a high regard for the freedom of speech, there can not be a cult.

FWIW, Al, I threw in my 2p. Lets's see if it is moderated ....

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/briefing-from-the-shack/#comment-26811

Actually, Allen raises excellent points. There are two important tasks facing scientologists: stop the abuses of the Co$, and promote the well-being of self & others through adoption of scientology clearing technology.

Any scientologist or former scientologist is in a position which enables him to use scientology tech for the benefit of himself & others. Arguably, in some fashion all such are doing so to the best that they are able. They don’t always agree among themselves as to the “best way forward”, but that sort of disagreement is quite healthy. It makes for open discourse & alternative approaches much more in keeping with the diverse communities which need to be addressed.

Humans aren’t “one size fits all”, ergo it is simplistic to think that clearing tech is “one size fits all”.

However, with regard to stopping the abuses of the Co$, not all former members of the church or other activists stand on equal footing. Former senior execs of the Co$ are in the best position to come forward and expose the long standing criminal abuses conducted on behalf of the church. This is because they are often the ones who ordered or carried the violations of lives, laws, and livelihoods which the church has routinely carried out going back at least 50 years.

With regard to exposing such criminal practices, Marty Rathbun & Mike Rinder are in unique positions being most intimately familiar with the crimes & frauds perpetrated within the church, and especially during the Miscavige regime. Thus it makes perfect sense for the two MRs to come clean and cooperate with legal authority to FULLY EXPOSE ALL CRIMES AND FRAUDS perpetrated by the Co$ and its leadership for which they have knowledge. Nor should such efforts be confined solely to the time of Miscavige’s leadership. The church was, after all, perpetrating criminal frauds for 30 years under the direction of L.Ron Hubbard prior to David Miscavige’s even having come of legal age.

The foregoing raises as legitimate questions: what is to be gained, and cui bono, by the failure to expose the ongoing & thoroughly rooted criminal legacy of the Co$?

Mark A. Baker

 

[Alanzo]

FWIW, Al, I threw in my 2p. Lets's see if it is moderated ....

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/briefing-from-the-shack/#comment-26811

No way he is going to post that.

If he does, I'll ....I'll.....say something nice about L Ron Hubbard!

 

[byte301]

Let me say something about independant scientologists. That is speculation on my part and I might be totally paranoide. It is just that with scientology, nothing and I mean NOTHING surprises me anymore.

Someone and I dont remember who mentioned one time that maybe and I say maybe MR is working FOR scientology. What if DM is seeing that scientology is really going to fall apart. Alot we know but I'm sure alot we dont know about what is happening legally. Sooo, with that in my mind, MR and company might be scientologists trying to built a 'new scientology' but not against DM but working with him? Plus, they are getting scientologists back because there has been so many scientologists leaving in the last years plus all the shit getting out in the light. They got to find a way to 'keep scientology working'? Getting the exes back by saying the tech was altered, etc. We are going to 'fix you'. DM might even have taken money and is planning a trip on a far away land for the rest of his life? Anything is possible. And dont tell me none of you tought about that type of thing.

I am truly speculating here. Just that there has been a few things happening to me in the last couple of months and I am starting to put 2 and 2 together. No, its not a=a. although a do equal a. a do not equal b or c

Whatever...that is my own sarcasm about it.

So, who will call me crazy first?

shit...and me who tought I was done with therapy!

I wouldn't be calling you crazy. I think you're pretty smart.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

For better or worse, Christianity is a real major religion that has proven to have deep roots and immense resilience; it has been rediscovered and reborn many times over the centuries.

Yes, nothing succeeds like corrupt practices and the seizing of power in a secular state with the subsequent use of that power to inculcate a 1500 year system of cultural domination through control of administration, law, penal, inquisition, & educational systems and the violent suppression of alternate views and non-compliant communities.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Oh no.

In my interactions with Jim, I believe that he is true blue.

In my interactions with Jim, he is "truer than true blue".


Mark A. Baker

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I don't think you are crazy.

I think it is a distinct possibility.

Along with others, of course.

But then you are an armadillo.

No way he is going to post that.

If he does, I'll ....I'll.....say something nice about L Ron Hubbard!

I'll take that as a further incentive for Marty to "do the right thing".


Mark A. Baker

 

[Smilla]

FWIW, Al, I threw in my 2p. Lets's see if it is moderated ....

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/briefing-from-the-shack/#comment-26811

Well Mark, you really zoomed in on some issues there. If he posts that I will be greatly encouraged. I don't quite know how to say this, but thanks for doing that, and I respect you very much for being so honest and direct.