Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
This seems as good a place to ask this as any. Wasn't there/Isn't there an RPF at Flag? That's where Nancy Many says she was held in the garage while pregnant.

Was Debbie Cook Captain FSO while Nancy Many was in the garage at the Ft. Harrison?


The top officials who leave seem to be surprised (not that there is an RPF) but that they could end up serving on it.

Oh sure there's an RPF at Flag.

The Hole isn't the same as the RPF, though.
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Eh-Hem! Can I just say that this is the aim of most conventional types of counseling and therapy?

Some people have suppressed their feelings so much (usually in order to survive some very challenging or threatening situation or circumstance) that they need to get physical (Paul's idea with the bat) and hit something (non-living) and scream, pound a pillow, etc...to be able to access their emotions more fully.

Most of us can access our hurts, grief, anger and upsets more directly and easily. But I agree...feel your feelings, express your emotions, (in any way and through any means that doesn't harm yourself or any other living thing) and don't stuff or repress them and hold on to them. :thumbsup: No gunnysacking! :biggrin:

Your methods may very. Some people have great success by watching very sad movies or listening to evocative music. Whatever works for you, "so it harms none". :thumbsup:

I hope you didn't take it that I meant that the dianetics or therapy did not have that aim. Indeed I ran thousands of hours of dianetics on folks to their great relief, especially grief charge.

Some of the sanest people I've met are of latin descent - mexican, spanish, italian, french etc. who displayed and experienced their emotion at the time it was generated rather than suppressing it.

Wouldn't it be great if we did live in a society in which expressing grief etc. publicly was not something the person felt he had to suppress. The health benefits would be great.

And of course express the emotion safely.
 

Natalie

Patron with Honors
I agree with Dean. I've only known Marty out of the Sea Org. He and Mike Rinder helped my family during a time full of turmoil and uncertainty, asking nothing in return. For that I remain grateful.

I've seen other friends wake up to what is going on in the cult after reading Marty's blog. It truly is a great gradient for them.

I'm not saying Marty is perfect, none of us are. What I am saying is that he has done a hell of a lot to expose the abuses occuring in the cult. Yes he caused some of those abuses, but slamming the guy when he is trying to help people today, is counter productive.

Many more like Debbie Cook will be coming forward. In 2012 we will no doubt see an unprecidented amount of people leaving the cult and speaking out. Anything and anyone that contributes to this is welcomed by me.

I no longer practice Scientology and haven't for sometime. I have friends who are still in the cult, who are out and Indies, out and critics, never been in etc. What I share with each of them is a desire to see a stop to the abuses that have and are occuring. Coerced abortions, financial destrutction, physical and mental abuse.

I don't always agree with all of Marty's viewpoints, or all of the viewpoints here, but the beautiful thing is I don't have to. What we share is a desire to end the human rights abuses being perpetuated by the group known as the Church of Scientology.

Most importantly, it really pisses off the cult when we get along and work together.:biggrin:

I am going to stick up for Marty and his blog and I will tell you why.

I was in Scientology for 40 years. Twenty of those years included being in the SO or on staff at an org. I am no longer a Scientologist independent or otherwise. Some of my favorite posters here are people like "helluvahoax", "gotta brain", "AnonyMary", "Alanzo" and many others with that type of attitude.

A little over two years ago I began reading about Scientology on the internet and ran into all of the wonderful interviews and reports done by the St. Petersburg Times. That was the first time I had ever heard of Marty Rathbun. It was also the first time I had heard of a lot of the other whistle blowers.

I began reading Marty's blog every night along with many other blogs and message boards and all of them were helpful. Marty was instrumental in exposing much of what Miscavige was doing and while Marty has not disclosed everything by a long shot, he did enlighten me and a lot of other people so I have got to give him grace on that.

To have someone who has been in Scientology for any length of time read a completely anti-Scientology website such as Arnie Lerma's page might turn many people off. While I feel that what is written on these extremely critical websites is most often true, it is a bit overwhelming at first and can be rejected by someone who is just leaving the cult.

Marty's website takes a more gradient approach and allows the reader to reject some of the goings on in Scientology without rejecting all of it. As some of these things that have been going on are exposed one becomes more able to think for themselves.

Then, as one reads more and looks at some of the other websites that are critical of Hubbard and Scientology, more layers of the onion are peeled away. Eventually you get a fuller understanding and will become free and regain your critical thinking.

Because of this I love Marty just as I love all of you.

None of this would have been possible without the internet and I am so thankful for everyone who has contributed to the exposure of the Church of Scientology no matter how large or how small. The truth shall set you free.
 
I agree with Dean. I've only known Marty out of the Sea Org. He and Mike Rinder helped my family during a time full of turmoil and uncertainty, asking nothing in return. For that I remain grateful.

I've seen other friends wake up to what is going on in the cult after reading Marty's blog. It truly is a great gradient for them.

I'm not saying Marty is perfect, none of us are. What I am saying is that he has done a hell of a lot to expose the abuses occuring in the cult. Yes he caused some of those abuses, but slamming the guy when he is trying to help people today, is counter productive.

Many more like Debbie Cook will be coming forward. In 2012 we will no doubt see an unprecidented amount of people leaving the cult and speaking out. Anything and anyone that contributes to this is welcomed by me.

I no longer practice Scientology and haven't for sometime. I have friends who are still in the cult, who are out and Indies, out and critics, never been in etc. What I share with each of them is a desire to see a stop to the abuses that have and are occuring. Coerced abortions, financial destrutction, physical and mental abuse.

I don't always agree with all of Marty's viewpoints, or all of the viewpoints here, but the beautiful thing is I don't have to. What we share is a desire to end the human rights abuses being perpetuated by the group known as the Church of Scientology.

Most importantly, it really pisses off the cult when we get along and work together.:biggrin:

YES!

I left in 1976, never having been in the SO, and was only in for 8 years.

Marty is a wonderful gradient, for those "in," to read, and leave.

I want my friends, who are still "in," to wake up and walk.

Marty is performing a vital task.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
So if I get you correctly, if you are avidly reading Arnie Lerma's site, you can consider yourself free or in the final stages of removing yourself from the Hubbard mind maze.


Personally I don't consider Marty's helping of those newly out a s an act of friendship or a humanitarian endeavor. His site is purposely constructed to draw in the newly out and give them the sense that they are safe but I don't consider it Marty's intention to be their champion unless it benefits himself first and foremost.
I am going to stick up for Marty and his blog and I will tell you why.

I was in Scientology for 40 years. Twenty of those years included being in the SO or on staff at an org. I am no longer a Scientologist independent or otherwise. Some of my favorite posters here are people like "helluvahoax", "gotta brain", "AnonyMary", "Alanzo" and many others with that type of attitude.

A little over two years ago I began reading about Scientology on the internet and ran into all of the wonderful interviews and reports done by the St. Petersburg Times. That was the first time I had ever heard of Marty Rathbun. It was also the first time I had heard of a lot of the other whistle blowers.

I began reading Marty's blog every night along with many other blogs and message boards and all of them were helpful. Marty was instrumental in exposing much of what Miscavige was doing and while Marty has not disclosed everything by a long shot, he did enlighten me and a lot of other people so I have got to give him grace on that.

To have someone who has been in Scientology for any length of time read a completely anti-Scientology website such as Arnie Lerma's page might turn many people off. While I feel that what is written on these extremely critical websites is most often true, it is a bit overwhelming at first and can be rejected by someone who is just leaving the cult.

Marty's website takes a more gradient approach and allows the reader to reject some of the goings on in Scientology without rejecting all of it. As some of these things that have been going on are exposed one becomes more able to think for themselves.

Then, as one reads more and looks at some of the other websites that are critical of Hubbard and Scientology, more layers of the onion are peeled away. Eventually you get a fuller understanding and will become free and regain your critical thinking.

Because of this I love Marty just as I love all of you.

None of this would have been possible without the internet and I am so thankful for everyone who has contributed to the exposure of the Church of Scientology no matter how large or how small. The truth shall set you free.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
I agree. Still, a huggable thug is nonetheless a thug. The fact is Rathbun remains a thug, and an utterly unrepentant thug at that. He's apparently still in the same business. He just changed gang affiliation.

Not a man to be believed or credited.

I'd like to see him change his life for the better, but there is no sign of that happening yet.


Mark A. Baker


Marty is another product of LRH tech. You see some good on the surface, but the foundation is rotten. One can read LRH quotes and then wonder, "Did he really write that?" The words often didn't match the actions. Marty also writes things on his blog that sound great, and I even find myself rooting for him at times. But then I have to remember who he really is and what he did in the past with no accountability so far.

He is truly a thug along the lines of DM. He has a monstrous, violent temper. Meaning when he gets mad he tends to get violent. I watched a video recently in which he slammed a car door on an older man's arm and shoulder three times. He was getting into the passenger side of a car at an airport and this guy was trying to interview him. Sure the guy was probably a pain in the ass and I would've been irritated if I were in Marty's shoes. But slamming the door on him hard three times just shows what kind of angry punk ass thug Marty can be.

Yesterday I made a post indicating in a humorous way how Debbie, Marty, and Mike R. have probably been in cahoots for quite some time. I actually doubt that is true now, but it could still end up happening. Marty would love nothing more than to get Debbie Cook into his universe and use her rock star status. I don't think this would be good for Debbie in the long run, and I hope it doesn't happen. She'll just find herself right back in a dysfunctional group complete with another angry, violent prone thug.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I don't think this would be good for Debbie in the long run, and I hope it doesn't happen. She'll just find herself right back in a dysfunctional group complete with another angry, violent prone thug.

Debbie would still be the Captain FSO if she hadn't been removed from post.

She never would have left the "dysfunctional group complete with another angry, violent prone thug" if she had not been forcefully removed. She seems to enjoy such a condition, as she obviously chose to remain in such a condition for as long as she did. Some people are attracted to such conditions - so she might really enjoy being part of another with Marty. :confused2:

Of course, all people change over time. How she will change, how fast she will change, and into what exactly, is anyone's guess. But she has a great deal of "nonsensical Scientology indoctrination" stuffed into that true-believin' little mind of hers. Letting go of pet ideas and personal beliefs that one has held onto for most of one's life can be rough indeed. Debbie pretty much defines herself by the Scientology paradigm. She will have many strange monents where she will feel completely lost and sad and upset, as the walls of her own crazy agreements around her collapse, crumble and fall. :bigcry:
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Debbie would still be the Captain FSO if she hadn't been removed from post.

She never would have left the "dysfunctional group complete with another angry, violent prone thug" if she had not been forcefully removed. She seems to enjoy such a condition, as she obviously chose to remain in such a condition for as long as she did. Some people are attracted to such conditions - so she might really enjoy being part of another with Marty. :confused2:

Of course, all people change over time. How she will change, how fast she will change, and into what exactly, is anyone's guess. But she has a great deal of "nonsensical Scientology indoctrination" stuffed into that true-believin' little mind of hers. Letting go of pet ideas and personal beliefs that one has held onto for most of one's life can be rough indeed. Debbie pretty much defines herself by the Scientology paradigm. She will have many strange monents where she will feel completely lost and sad and upset, as the walls of her own crazy agreements around her collapse, crumble and fall. :bigcry:

I think what she enjoyed was having a sense of purpose -feeling that she was completely dedicated to something bigger than herself. It's what I missed the most. It's what I still miss.

I really feel for her on the road to her own recovery. She's got no choice but to keep on walking down it, having been forced into it by the Nazi dwarf. I'm sad to think that she won't avail herself of any of the literature that helps to actually make sense of what she experienced and endured - but IMO the chances are slim to none that she will read Cults In Our Midst or any of the psychology studies that have been done on the subject of destructive cults and mind control.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
She never would have left the "dysfunctional group complete with another angry, violent prone thug" if she had not been forcefully removed. She seems to enjoy such a condition, as she obviously chose to remain in such a condition for as long as she did. Some people are attracted to such conditions - so she might really enjoy being part of another with Marty. :confused2:

Yes your point is what concerns me. (I guess it shouldn't concern me because she can do whatever she wants. No skin off my back personally). Someone yesterday brought up the Stockholm Syndrome possibility with DC. After five years she may just really be missing "the game".
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Without addressing any issues raised about what others believe M&M's long-term goals are, whether those are true or not (and about which I don't have any info, sorry), I want to address Lone Star's comment above about Rathbun's "angry punk ass thug" behavior when Rathbun was harassed in front of his home, in airports, etc.

If my spouse and I had been harassed as much as Marty and Mosey have been these past few years, I'd probably have been arrested several times for doing much more than I've read or seen evidence of Rathbun doing. I don't think striking out against those squirrel busters and "documentarians" would make me an "angry punk ass thug." It would make me a human being who'd been harassed to the point of exhaustion and frustration.

And for the record, which evidentiary videos are you citing here? The cult's? If so, don't you wonder what other videoed bits were left on the cutting room floor?

I hope you didn't jump the shark there.

TG1
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Debbie would still be the Captain FSO if she hadn't been removed from post.

I never heard or read why she was removed from post in the first place. Was it because she got sick? But if it was just the illness, why did she try to blow?
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Without addressing any issues raised about what others believe M&M's long-term goals are, whether those are true or not (and about which I don't have any info, sorry), I want to address Lone Star's comment above about Rathbun's "angry punk ass thug" behavior when Rathbun was harassed in front of his home, in airports, etc.

If my spouse and I had been harassed as much as Marty and Mosey have been these past few years, I'd probably have been arrested several times for doing much more than I've read or seen evidence of Rathbun doing. I don't think striking out against those squirrel busters and "documentarians" would make me an "angry punk ass thug." It would make me a human being who'd been harassed to the point of exhaustion and frustration.

And for the record, which evidentiary videos are you citing here? The cult's? If so, don't you wonder what other videoed bits were left on the cutting room floor?

I hope you didn't jump the shark there.

TG1

I agree that Marty endured a lot with the Squirrel Busters. And I'll give him credit for not doing serious bodily harm to any of them. They were certainly trying to elicit a violent response from him. He didn't bite, other than one minor incident when he knocked the hat off of the one known as "Norman Bates". So he does deserve credit for the restraint he practiced during that long ordeal.

The video of him slamming a door on the man was at an airport. Even if they edited a lot of prior footage out, it was still not good. The man was a smallish elderly guy who was hardly a physical threat. Marty has been honest about his violent temper in the past. He came from a violent universe in DM's world where he received and dished out. When we get into our 40s and 50s we don't tend to change that much. (Speaking from experience). His environment is more stable at the moment. But who's to say if he ever came to have a position of authority....
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I agree that Marty endured a lot with the Squirrel Busters. And I'll give him credit for not doing serious bodily harm to any of them. They were certainly trying to elicit a violent response from him. He didn't bite, other than one minor incident when he knocked the hat off of the one known as "Norman Bates". So he does deserve credit for the restraint he practiced during that long ordeal.

The video of him slamming a door on the man was at an airport. Even if they edited a lot of prior footage out, it was still not good. The man was a smallish elderly guy who was hardly a physical threat. Marty has been honest about his violent temper in the past. He came from a violent universe in DM's world where he received and dished out. When we get into our 40s and 50s we don't tend to change that much. (Speaking from experience). His environment is more stable at the moment. But who's to say if he ever came to have a position of authority....

In the Indie-verse, he's already in a position of authority. So far I don't see any signs of him "mafia-ing up" so to speak, except with regard to David Miscavige. And I am 100% backing him on that. I do watch his activities with keen interest, though, to the degree that one is able to do so.

I have to concur with TG1 - had it been me, I'd have done far worse than Marty has so far in dealing with the harrassment. I think I'm more of a hothead than he is.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I saw the title of this thread and thought "Who cares?" (Sorry FTS, no offense).

Re: Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

---------------

Even with DM out, who cares?

I was raised in the Sea Org prior to DM. As a child, I dealt with beans and rice ONLY, 3 meals a day for YEARS, no money, no schooling, dirty clothes, wearing the same clothes every day, collecting freeloader debts for the org (yes, when I was 5 to 7 years old!) and giving that money to the church and still being starved constantly! Tons of children got molested too while I was a child. And punishment was for the KIDS for that!

What kind of "religion" would do that?

Getting DM out will change nothing. The whole thing has to go. It in inhuman!
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I saw the title of this thread and thought "Who cares?" (Sorry FTS, no offense).

Re: Rathbun's views on the Debbie Cook trial.

---------------

Even with DM out, who cares?

I was raised in the Sea Org prior to DM. As a child, I dealt with beans and rice ONLY, 3 meals a day for YEARS, no money, no schooling, dirty clothes, wearing the same clothes every day, collecting freeloader debts for the org (yes, when I was 5 to 7 years old!) and giving that money to the church and still being starved constantly! Tons of children got molested too while I was a child. And punishment was for the KIDS for that!

What kind of "religion" would do that?

Getting DM out will change nothing. The whole thing has to go. It in inhuman!

I can totally appreciate your views and you definitely have the right to them. I don't even disagree, I just feel that DM is step 1.
 
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