Real v. Imaginary.

[gomorrhan]

If a meter can be easily fooled as myself and so many others including all the ex SO posting agree about ad have done....then it is a very fallible device and cannot be trusted to "guide' even a dog to a buried bone.

How can you even say a meter is "a good guide to where there is repressed content" when high level CS'es have attested to how easily they have manipulated the meter to : go to the next OT level or to, get out of session, as well as to cause needle activity upon an angry purposeful thought all with the intent to fool the meter.

This is fools gold, at best.

Certainly a meter can be fooled. If that's what the person receiving the counseling is trying to do, it's their own time they are wasting. I have no doubt that this occurs inside abusive cults. I have a very hard time believing that a person who was really trying to overcome a problem they were having in life would try to manipulate the meter. It'd be like lying to your counselor: the meter is NOT a lie detector, and neither is a human being. It's not a game that occurs in a session, it's an effort to help a person confront what has happened, and what they are currently holding onto that they have not yet fully confronted.

 

[Boldgirl]

Hi Boldgirl!

My experience with the past and spirituality is not confined to the COS. Where there are points of agreement between the COS viewpoint and my own they are more accidental than not. For example I never did an OT level. But I do have some experience with whatevers that seemed to be in some fashion attached to me. Are they BT's? I don't know. The COS isn't the only group by far that has notions about that, however. And the OT 3 story is ludicrous for a whole lot of reasons. But I can't say that it never happened, somewhere. This universe is a big place.
All you can do is figure out your own story. And that seems to be sufficient.

Yes I agree that the universe is a big place. I think we are all on a quest for perfection or enlightenment via many lives, a concept most religions have in common except christianity. But I dont think that souls are burdened with BT's , I do believe that we get help in starting newly each lifetime with our ability to experience life with a clean heart and a clean soul.

Any concept, in my opinion, that serves to introvert a person, like BT's, is purely in existent to enslave your mind.

Now if only I could prove it.:confused2:

 

[Boldgirl]

If a meter can be easily fooled as myself and so many others including all the ex SO posting agree about ad have done....then it is a very fallible device and cannot be trusted to "guide' even a dog to a buried bone.

How can you even say a meter is "a good guide to where there is repressed content" when high level CS'es have attested to how easily they have manipulated the meter to : go to the next OT level or to, get out of session, as well as to cause needle activity upon an angry purposeful thought all with the intent to fool the meter.

This is fools gold, at best.

Certainly a meter can be fooled. If that's what the person receiving the counseling is trying to do, it's their own time they are wasting. I have no doubt that this occurs inside abusive cults. I have a very hard time believing that a person who was really trying to overcome a problem they were having in life would try to manipulate the meter. It'd be like lying to your counselor: the meter is NOT a lie detector, and neither is a human being. It's not a game that occurs in a session, it's an effort to help a person confront what has happened, and what they are currently holding onto that they have not yet fully confronted.

The being KNOWS when something has gone awry in seesion and when the auditor is taking them down the wrong road with their FALSE BULLSHIT reads. The moment the person is pushed to produce something for the auditor that isnt there because of their FALSE BULLSHIT read, the person gets nervous, angry and then tries to suppress it knowing that something is wrong.

You surmise that peopel who fool the meter are playing a game---leave it to an auditor to decide what is best for a person because of their blind faith in a primitive device that they TRUST for gods sake!!! If it werent so sad and pathetic I would be laughing right now.

You see I believe that the being learns to manipulate the meter purely from a self preservation point of view. I think it was the smartest thing a person could do when in a session that is taking their mind down the wrong and often destructive path.

The auditor is LRH's tool to destruction on the mind and his tool to pure golden mind control.

 

[Boldgirl]

Manipulating the meter is extremely easy. You drill it. "Creating needle actions" is actually fun. It's a parlor trick; smoke and mirrors, like all of Scientology. (IMO)

right! I guess that is the one good thing a person can learn while being stuck in session with a primitive device --the one escape route maybe lrh didnt realize we had--we could always end session by manipulating the meter and the auditor....too bad I didnt learn this until some damage was done.

 

[Good twin]

right! I guess that is the one good thing a person can learn while being stuck in session with a primitive device --the one escape route maybe lrh didnt realize we had--we could always end session by manipulating the meter and the auditor....too bad I didnt learn this until some damage was done.

Okay, so we're damaged. I was in Scientology for over 30 years and I'm only out for about 8 months. I get shakey from time to time. I cry sometimes. I feel uncertain about things that I used to feel very sure of. But all in all the future looks really bright. I honestly feel that at this stage of my life, if I hadn't been brainwashed by a mind bending cult, I wouldn't be so full of awe and wonder. My appreciation level would be similar or the same as all the "normal" people.
That being said I guess I'm proud to be an EX. Or at least okay with it. It's a far cry better then still being in.

 

[nexus100]

right! I guess that is the one good thing a person can learn while being stuck in session with a primitive device --the one escape route maybe lrh didnt realize we had--we could always end session by manipulating the meter and the auditor....too bad I didnt learn this until some damage was done.

Two issues: out gradient, wrong identity. These are constant problems while using a meter and the COS tech. Apparently they crash nearly everyone eventually. But most, the very large majority, ditch the subject early on.
We were just too damn persistent.

 

[Good twin]

Two issues: out gradient, wrong identity. These are constant problems while using a meter and the COS tech. Apparently they crash nearly everyone eventually. But most, the very large majority, ditch the subject early on.
We were just too damn persistent.

But, we're going to be okay........right, Nexus?

 

[nexus100]

But, we're going to be okay........right, Nexus?

Yep. Won't take that long, either.

 

[Good twin]

Yep. Won't take that long, either.

Yeah. I feel I'm getting better very quickly. Like I said only 8 months out.

 

[Boldgirl]

Two issues: out gradient, wrong identity. These are constant problems while using a meter and the COS tech. Apparently they crash nearly everyone eventually. But most, the very large majority, ditch the subject early on.
We were just too damn persistent.

I know. Persistence, the very thing that helps a person succeed in life, works against you when in a cult.

 

[sallydannce]

Two issues: out gradient, wrong identity. These are constant problems while using a meter and the COS tech. Apparently they crash nearly everyone eventually. But most, the very large majority, ditch the subject early on.
We were just too damn persistent.

Absolutely absolutely agree! Constant problems, constantly constant. Saw this year in year out. I got de-sensitised to it all I saw it so regularly. Most do ditch it early on but for the few that persist, there is always ESMB to come to when they crash.

I recently had to spend time with a person on OT7. Sad. Nice person, don't get me wrong here but my God it was like there was no soul, no life within the person. Like something beautiful was missing, had been sucked out. The spontaneity was lacking or something. Robotic, nervous, rote, careful, restraining heavily. I could see the fear in her eyes that she might screw up and have to get extra sec-checking at the next 6 mthly check. A kind of confusion in her eyes which distressed me. It was cruel to watch. There was something not quite right. It struck me that this person was desperate to make this OT7 thing work - all that money and effort - all those years, I have to say I felt deep sadness for this person. Nice person, you know. But wooden and not quite right.

 

[nexus100]

I know. Persistence, the very thing that helps a person succeed in life, works against you when in a cult.

Good point!

 

[Boldgirl]

Yeah. I feel I'm getting better very quickly. Like I said only 8 months out.

I think that you and others with so many years in the SO are truly the strong ones.

Yes, I didn't sign the contract when reg'ed like crazy because I knew I couldn't be as compliant as the folks I saw in the SO, but for you all to persevere under intense suppression and still have the fortitude and inner strength to leave scn completely (no FZ) ,well that just is amazing to me.

In addition many of you ex SO disconnected from loved ones to this day....makes it nothing short of a sign of intense strength and braveness.

Your strength will take you to greater things for eternity....can't prove it but would stake my integrity on it.

 

[Good twin]

I think that you and others with so many years in the SO are truly the strong ones.

Yes, I didn't sign the contract when reg'ed like crazy because I knew I couldn't be as compliant as the folks I saw in the SO, but for you all to persevere under intense suppression and still have the fortitude and inner strength to leave scn completely (no FZ) ,well that just is amazing to me.

In addition many of you ex SO disconnected from loved ones to this day....makes it nothing short of a sign of intense strength and braveness.

Your strength will take you to greater things for eternity....can't prove it but would stake my integrity on it.

Thank you, but I was not in the SO. I was part of the mission network but not SO. I agree those guys deserve tremendous compassion. It's tough to face that your life's work might very well be doing all the wrong things for all the right reasons. It's heartbreaking really. But like I said the appreciation for simple things is amazing and would be hard to comprehend by anyone who was never brainwashed.

 

[Boldgirl]

Thank you, but I was not in the SO. I was part of the mission network but not SO. I agree those guys deserve tremendous compassion. It's tough to face that your life's work might very well be doing all the wrong things for all the right reasons. It's heartbreaking really. But like I said the appreciation for simple things is amazing and would be hard to comprehend by anyone who was never brainwashed.

I could easily include folks that were long term staff members in my comments about your strength and fortitude. In fact, I officially include all staff!

 

[Good twin]

I could easily include folks that were long term staff members in my comments about your strength and fortitude. In fact, I officially include all staff!

Well than you again. There are amazing people here on this board. Boldgirl is bold!

 

[gomorrhan]

The being KNOWS when something has gone awry in seesion and when the auditor is taking them down the wrong road with their FALSE BULLSHIT reads. The moment the person is pushed to produce something for the auditor that isnt there because of their FALSE BULLSHIT read, the person gets nervous, angry and then tries to suppress it knowing that something is wrong.

You surmise that peopel who fool the meter are playing a game---leave it to an auditor to decide what is best for a person because of their blind faith in a primitive device that they TRUST for gods sake!!! If it werent so sad and pathetic I would be laughing right now.

You see I believe that the being learns to manipulate the meter purely from a self preservation point of view. I think it was the smartest thing a person could do when in a session that is taking their mind down the wrong and often destructive path.

The auditor is LRH's tool to destruction on the mind and his tool to pure golden mind control.

Taking people down a wrong path can be a waste of time, and if it is enforced that the person do this, when their knowingness speaks otherwise, as it amounts to a wrong item. This can lead to "unusual solutions" that really do sink the person. This sounds like people were quite simply not having their TR-0 in (the auditor), and didn't spot that they were pursuing a wrong indication. PC data is always senior to the meter. It's that simple. Some people don't follow this way, because they are more comfortable confronting a meter than they are another human being.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Some people don't follow this way, because they are more comfortable confronting a meter than they are another human being.

If you have done a bunch of auditing in the CofS, complete with videos that get critiqued by RTC and have huge penalties attached to not following the party line, you end up with a different view to an auditor who's done his auditing--and metering--mostly free of the CofS.

Paul

 

[freebirdsci]

Illusions

For a long time I believed that the gains I experienced were a result of auditing. It's very hard to separate imagination and illusions from reality. I have finally come to terms with this question. It was hard to admit I was mislead and lied to but I now realize it was all an illusion and lots of wasted time and money.

 

[gomorrhan]

The results people gain from examining their lives are not illusory. They CAN be instigated by auditing, but quite clearly (TM), sometimes the opposite can happen. The old quote of "the unexamined life is not worth living" I agree with. While it can be nice to sail through life without errors, and without problems, this is typically not the case for most people. The purpose of processing/auditing is to help the person redress errors, come out of confusions, and cease being stuck in charge/games-conditions.

It is always the being who does this work. Others can help him to orient, so that he can look, and complete incomplete cycles of action, or so that he can see the origins of some decision he made, and decide to end that decision, and either make some new decision, now that he has time to reflect, or decide that he hadn't fully understood what was happening in the first place, so any decision made without full comprehension would have been likely erroneous (although a stopped clock is right two times a day, except in the military).

The illusion is that the "pcs gains" are attributable to the auditor or to the "founder" of the "tech". The pcs gains are always a result of the pc looking, or the pc building some skill. The auditor can help orient, and the idea of the C/S training is to provide a schedule/program of steps to take to get the person looking "at the right thing", which isn't really necessary, IMO, so long as the communication channel is open and the rapport is good. The person knows where their attention is, and what they need to look at. It can help to suggest things, when a person is repressed from looking in specific directions, but this also runs the danger of the pc relying on the auditor to shape his reality.

I've had surprising success asking "Was there something you thought I should ask you about but haven't yet?" when sessions are bogging.