Realizing my mistakes in placing my trust in them

[Domestic Witch]

Hello, everyone!

I'm pretty nervous to be here, since I am not totally "out." Though my husband hasn't been actively going on course or getting auditing for ages, and has a bit of a grudge with the people at the org because of how I've been treated lately, he still certainly considers himself a Scientologist, and his ex-wife, also a Scientologist, takes my 6-year-old step-daughter to the org every week for auditing. I'm very, very much in love and love my life with him, and am pregnant with his child, so leaving him is not at all an option in my mind, and I'm still trying to work out how we're going to balance things when I tell him that I don't intend to go Clear.

Here's my story: Several years back, I read Dianetics and wandered into my local Class V org and (against all better judgment) started taking courses. I was almost instantly scooped up for staff. My mission in life was to help people and help foster a compassionate planet, and the recruiter sold me on how I could do that through auditing. I agreed on the condition that I could keep attending college, and so work at the org part-time. Little did I know, there is no such thing as a part-time staff member!! I was pressured to join the SO shortly thereafter, and when I insisted that I wouldn't do that because my dream was to excel in the field I was studying at college, my dreams were belittled and insulted. Obviously I wasn't meant to be here and not committed to the human race if I didn't join the Sea Org. Only a couple weeks after joining staff, I felt so insulted and degraded that I left the org one day in tears (the first time I left post crying, but definitely not the last), and my now-husband, then-friend had to calm me down.

I was put on the TTC right away (which, when I originated wanting to route off this summer, I was told was something I didn't deserve by a CLO mission--because we all know that anyone who wants to leave is doing so because of their own "overts"), which unfortunately involves the most humiliating thing I have had to do in this life: fill out a Life History, something I'm sure many of you have, too. I've identified as bisexual since I was fairly young, and have had some romantic relationships with other women. The Life History requires you to note all of your sexual partners and describe what occurred, so I made note of these women, thinking that the stuff about gays and lesbians being perverts in Dianetics couldn't possibly still be the general opinion of Scientologists, since it was written in the fifties, in the midst of rampant homophobia. I was very wrong! And I was made very wrong for my past relationships, and was pressured into writing a statement saying that I believed what I had done was wrong and promised to never do it again.

I then made the horrible mistake of catching a bad flu a couple months in. This was when I really started to feel like I'd made the wrong decision. Not only does being sick mean hours and hours of auditing, weeks in Ethics, and the month-long PTS/SP Course, but my parents (who were nothing but supportive of my interest in Scientology, bless them) were constantly accused by other staff members as being possible SPs, and I was blasted for unethically taking a couple sick days to rest and recover ("care of the body," right?). Things got progressively worse: I felt so pressured to be a full-time staff member that I dropped out of college (which I regret doing now); as Tech staff, I couldn't spend any holidays with my family for a couple years, and I got blasted when I finally couldn't take it anymore and went on holiday; etc. etc. There's nothing "normal" about working at an org. I regret all the recruitment cycles I've been involved in.

When I found out I was pregnant, I knew I had to disengage from the Church. I don't want my child growing up in that sort of environment or getting pressured to join staff or the SO. A lot of the Scientology kids I know are pretty out of control because they're treated like adults, given all the privileges of adulthood but without any of the responsibility, or any discipline. I don't want that. And when I wanted to leave staff and said that I really couldn't come in session (my body is on the fritz and I'm literally never "meterable"), I was again ridiculed, and still have staff members banging on my door and calling me at all hours, trying to drag me back to the org. Part of me almost wants to think it's part of my penance for all the times I harassed students, as a Supervisor, who didn't show up on time, were out of comm, or were absent, calling them several times a day, leaving rude texts because my seniors told me to put the heat on them and get them in or I would get a Cram, etc. I feel pretty badly about all that.

tl;dr: Ex-Class V, still working my way out, husband is still in, don't really know what to do. I'm in for a big ol' Ethics handling if I go back into the org for being so "out of comm," that's for sure. If anyone has any advice on how to start talking to your spouse about leaving, please let me know! I'd love to hear your story.

 

[Hypatia]

Has your husband ever mentioned anything that might seem like he saw some of the flaws? That could be an opening.

Maybe read Leah Remini's book and bring it up, cheerfully but gently.

 

[WildKat]

Looks like you have a difficult road ahead of you. How things go will depend on how deeply entrenched your husband is, and how strong your relationship together is. There is so much pressure and indoctrination to keep people in. Many people choose Scn over their families. There is mind-bending pressure on them to do just that.

How long has he been in?

Edit to add: if someone hasn't been in very long, like a few years, it's not so hard to leave. If they've been in years and years and/or done lots of training/auditing, it is much harder to do because of the indoctrination, and trying to leave does a major mind-f...k on you, which can lead to severe depression.

Many of us here have been there, done that.

Good luck.

 

[strativarius]

It's great that you're here DW, so welcome to ESMB. Others will be writing soon enough with plenty of advice as to how you should deal with your circumstances. I'm not very good at that myself so I'll leave that to them, but I just wanted to tell you that you're among friends.

Stratty.

 

[BunnySkull]

You've got yourself in a real pickle. Getting pregnant by a man who you knew was a committed scientologist is a difficult situation, because you knew what he believed and having a child will just reenforce his beliefs, since he's just dandy with his 6 year old daughter getting brainwashed on a weekly basis. You knew this from the outset, since his daughter was going to the org weekly at just six years of age. I can only think he will expect the same when your child is old enough to be subjected to it as well.

Go back to college, start making an effort so if the time comes you can care financially for your child on your own if it comes to that. You will not be able to depend on a scientologist husband if you aren't "all in" or disagree with the cult - and they will make your life hell if you try to keep your child out of the CoS or if they think you are disaffected. There are horror stories galore of custody battles between ex-scientologists and their scientologist spouse.

Is your husband's family involved in the cult? Is he a second generation member? If so that's an even tougher situation and I hope that it isn't the case. If its not then you have a better chance of maybe getting him to look at the other side of the coin.

I would keep my mouth shut for the time being. Just try to avoid the subject and do not go to the org., make excuses if necessary.Don't bring up what you've read online unless your husband is giving big signs that he's open to such information or might be disaffected. There's not much you can do if you are currently pregnant, but once the child is born that's when the hard decisions must start. Do all you can to further your education (a real college education, not a useless scientology one) and career so you will not be dependent on your husband or the cult. That is the best advice I can give you for now, it's a very tough situation you have arrived in. I don't think it bodes well at all for the future so be prepared to raise this child on your own if you want to keep it out of the abusive evil clutches of the CoS. IF you aren't on board with the cult they will fight and make life as difficult as possible for you and your child, be prepared. Do everything possible to avoid being dependent on your husband and the cult because if they have power over you they will use it abusively.

If down the road you try to divorce your husband (or he divorces you) they will even use those "life histories" and everything you thought you were divulging privately against you. They will use it against in you in a custody hearing, they will use it to blackmail you. Be prepared for this.

My best friend was raised by scientolgoist parents - his life was a nightmare and he was signed away to the SO as a child. All I can say is you can not allow your soon to be baby to be raised in the cult. If it takes divorcing and leaving your husband to avoid that fate - then you must do it. NO child deserves to be subjected to the CoS and it's evil bullshit.

I must admit I"m just so astounded that the CoS still continues to attract new people into its ranks with all the information that is now easily and freely available. Do you mind if I ask if you did any research into the CoS before you went to it and joined staff? Or was it only after you were on staff and didn't like what you were experiencing that you decided to get online and do research? I'm just curious because all of us here are trying our best to keep "raw meat" out of the cult, but many times we take for granted there must be almost no new members (only 2nd and 3rd generation members) going into the orgs thanks to all the movies, media and internet. (But obviously that's not the case, the cult is still managing to attract fresh meat into its ranks somehow.)

 

[Enthetan]

Hello, everyone!

I'm pretty nervous to be here, since I am not totally "out." Though my husband hasn't been actively going on course or getting auditing for ages, and has a bit of a grudge with the people at the org because of how I've been treated lately, he still certainly considers himself a Scientologist, and his ex-wife, also a Scientologist, takes my 6-year-old step-daughter to the org every week for auditing.

Consider the possibility that your husband DOESN'T truly consider himself a Scientologist, and is just "keeping up appearances" because he thinks YOU consider yourself a Scientologist. Or because there are one or more people he's connected with (like ex-wife) who he doesn't want to alienate.

It seems possible that he doesn't want to alienate ex-wife, who I assume is the biological mother of your step daughter, out of concern of what might happen if she wants to take exclusive custody of daughter.

A "Scientologist" who has lost interest in training and auditing is 90% out the door.

 

[phenomanon]

Hello, everyone!

I'm pretty nervous to be here, since I am not totally "out." Though my husband hasn't been actively going on course or getting auditing for ages, and has a bit of a grudge with the people at the org because of how I've been treated lately, he still certainly considers himself a Scientologist, and his ex-wife, also a Scientologist, takes my 6-year-old step-daughter to the org every week for auditing. I'm very, very much in love and love my life with him, and am pregnant with his child, so leaving him is not at all an option in my mind, and I'm still trying to work out how we're going to balance things when I tell him that I don't intend to go Clear.

Here's my story: Several years back, I read Dianetics and wandered into my local Class V org and (against all better judgment) started taking courses. I was almost instantly scooped up for staff. My mission in life was to help people and help foster a compassionate planet, and the recruiter sold me on how I could do that through auditing. I agreed on the condition that I could keep attending college, and so work at the org part-time. Little did I know, there is no such thing as a part-time staff member!! I was pressured to join the SO shortly thereafter, and when I insisted that I wouldn't do that because my dream was to excel in the field I was studying at college, my dreams were belittled and insulted. Obviously I wasn't meant to be here and not committed to the human race if I didn't join the Sea Org. Only a couple weeks after joining staff, I felt so insulted and degraded that I left the org one day in tears (the first time I left post crying, but definitely not the last), and my now-husband, then-friend had to calm me down.

I was put on the TTC right away (which, when I originated wanting to route off this summer, I was told was something I didn't deserve by a CLO mission--because we all know that anyone who wants to leave is doing so because of their own "overts"), which unfortunately involves the most humiliating thing I have had to do in this life: fill out a Life History, something I'm sure many of you have, too. I've identified as bisexual since I was fairly young, and have had some romantic relationships with other women. The Life History requires you to note all of your sexual partners and describe what occurred, so I made note of these women, thinking that the stuff about gays and lesbians being perverts in Dianetics couldn't possibly still be the general opinion of Scientologists, since it was written in the fifties, in the midst of rampant homophobia. I was very wrong! And I was made very wrong for my past relationships, and was pressured into writing a statement saying that I believed what I had done was wrong and promised to never do it again.

I then made the horrible mistake of catching a bad flu a couple months in. This was when I really started to feel like I'd made the wrong decision. Not only does being sick mean hours and hours of auditing, weeks in Ethics, and the month-long PTS/SP Course, but my parents (who were nothing but supportive of my interest in Scientology, bless them) were constantly accused by other staff members as being possible SPs, and I was blasted for unethically taking a couple sick days to rest and recover ("care of the body," right?). Things got progressively worse: I felt so pressured to be a full-time staff member that I dropped out of college (which I regret doing now); as Tech staff, I couldn't spend any holidays with my family for a couple years, and I got blasted when I finally couldn't take it anymore and went on holiday; etc. etc. There's nothing "normal" about working at an org. I regret all the recruitment cycles I've been involved in.

When I found out I was pregnant, I knew I had to disengage from the Church. I don't want my child growing up in that sort of environment or getting pressured to join staff or the SO. A lot of the Scientology kids I know are pretty out of control because they're treated like adults, given all the privileges of adulthood but without any of the responsibility, or any discipline. I don't want that. And when I wanted to leave staff and said that I really couldn't come in session (my body is on the fritz and I'm literally never "meterable"), I was again ridiculed, and still have staff members banging on my door and calling me at all hours, trying to drag me back to the org. Part of me almost wants to think it's part of my penance for all the times I harassed students, as a Supervisor, who didn't show up on time, were out of comm, or were absent, calling them several times a day, leaving rude texts because my seniors told me to put the heat on them and get them in or I would get a Cram, etc. I feel pretty badly about all that.

tl;dr: Ex-Class V, still working my way out, husband is still in, don't really know what to do. I'm in for a big ol' Ethics handling if I go back into the org for being so "out of comm," that's for sure. If anyone has any advice on how to start talking to your spouse about leaving, please let me know! I'd love to hear your story.

awwww gee. You are in a tuff spot. Don't go back in. Tell them anything. Tell them your Dr has demanded bed rest for the next 9 months. Tell your hubby that you are only interested in the well-being of your child, and you feel that the stress of an ethics handling will not be good for baby. Tell him that the late nite phone calls etc are upsetting you, and it's not 'good' for you or your unborn child. Tell him to 'handle' the Org on your behalf. Tell him that you are "out of comm" because the pregnancy is demanding your attention, and your body's ruds are your primary concern.
Good luck to you.
Don't tell him that you are reading this site.
Poor girl. I feel badly for you.
Stay with us here. We are your friends.

 

[Enthetan]

If down the road you try to divorce your husband (or he divorces you) they will even use those "life histories" and everything you thought you were divulging privately against you. They will use it against in you in a custody hearing, they will use it to blackmail you. Be prepared for this.

On that subject, you should decline to go to the org for metered interviews and sec-checking. I can see that coming.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Best of luck, you can always use the excuse of following DMSMH by avoiding stress while being pregnant, I'm sure you can find something in there to back you up.

 

[Free to shine]

Best of luck, you can always use the excuse of following DMSMH by avoiding stress while being pregnant, I'm sure you can find something in there to back you up.

Very, very difficult situation. The above is a great idea - in fact for the health of your baby it's imperative! Less stress and be a mamma lion about it. It's something that can't be argued against and may give you some breathing space until you figure out the best thing to do next. Be as kind to yourself as you can - insist on enough undisturbed sleep etc so that people around you begin to do the same. Hang in there love ... no matter how difficult it seems there are many here who have gone through it and come out the other side free and happy. It's just a matter of being true to yourself and finding the best way to change things.

 

[Domestic Witch]

Has your husband ever mentioned anything that might seem like he saw some of the flaws? That could be an opening.

Maybe read Leah Remini's book and bring it up, cheerfully but gently.

He actually pretty severely chewed out some of the people who have been coming out to our house lately, and was very, very upset a few weeks ago when my Div head told me that I got pregnant so I could be lazy and not have to work (for the record, we weren't trying). My SO hasn't been back to the org since then. You're right, that could definitely be an avenue.

Actually I've been eating up everything that has been in the news about Remini lately, and was just about to order a copy of her book before I decided to post here first. I do think it'll help.

Thank you!

 

[Domestic Witch]

Looks like you have a difficult road ahead of you. How things go will depend on how deeply entrenched your husband is, and how strong your relationship together is. There is so much pressure and indoctrination to keep people in. Many people choose Scn over their families. There is mind-bending pressure on them to do just that.

How long has he been in?

Edit to add: if someone hasn't been in very long, like a few years, it's not so hard to leave. If they've been in years and years and/or done lots of training/auditing, it is much harder to do because of the indoctrination, and trying to leave does a major mind-f...k on you, which can lead to severe depression.

Many of us here have been there, done that.

Good luck.

He's been in 14 years, but hasn't done much Bridge. He's not currently interested in going Clear any time soon; he feels like he's got things under control. And while he does want to see me go up the Bridge, he hasn't pressured me to go in session or on course whatsoever, but thinks I need to decide for myself if and when I go in session.

Starting to realize he probably won't be leaving, but that I can at least have a "good roads, good weather" relationship with the org--from a distance.

Thank you for your response!

 

[Domestic Witch]

It's great that you're here DW, so welcome to ESMB. Others will be writing soon enough with plenty of advice as to how you should deal with your circumstances. I'm not very good at that myself so I'll leave that to them, but I just wanted to tell you that you're among friends.

Stratty.

Thank you, Stratty! All of my friends (except my mother) are Scientologists, so I've felt a little alone lately. Needless to say, your words mean a lot.

On another note: damn, I gotta make some new friends!

 

[Dulloldfart]

Domestic Witch, I don't know how keen you are on hiding your identity, but every single thing you post about yourself and husband (assuming it's true) narrows it down. The regulars here don't care either way, but the cult people who want to keep their staff/public on the treadmill keep track of such things.

Loose lips sink ships, as the wartime slogan went. Or in the cult's case, you stand to lose all your Scn contacts through enforced disconnection.

I wish you well, by the way.

Paul

 

[cleared cannibal]

I am always nervous writing these posts for those in your situation as the consequences are so life changing, but here goes.

I too am one member of a couple which one is in and the other out. We were always public so the circumstances are different but similar. I think it really comes down to whether you want take your medicine now or take it later. I just don't see any up side to playing nicey nice with the org . I would tell them to F-- -off in those words. I would tell your husband that you don't want to do Scn any more or at the minimum you want to take a break until your child starts school. Five years is a long time and things could change. This is easy for me to say especially since I didn't do it, but in reflection I wish I had. It would have saved me several years in heart ache and depression. It also might have caused us to split up and it may cause you two to also so proceed with caution. At least it sounds like you have the support of your family.

The only advantage in waiting is if think your husband might leave on his own which I think is a possibility if he hasn't done anything for a while. You would know a lot better than me about this. If he stays in and accepts your not being in that opens another can of worms of which mine is still a work in progress.

 

[degraded being]

awwww gee. You are in a tuff spot. Don't go back in. Tell them anything. Tell them your Dr has demanded bed rest for the next 9 months. Tell your hubby that you are only interested in the well-being of your child, and you feel that the stress of an ethics handling will not be good for baby. Tell him that the late nite phone calls etc are upsetting you, and it's not 'good' for you or your unborn child. Tell him to 'handle' the Org on your behalf. Tell him that you are "out of comm" because the pregnancy is demanding your attention, and your body's ruds are your primary concern.
Good luck to you.
Don't tell him that you are reading this site.
Poor girl. I feel badly for you.
Stay with us here. We are your friends.

This. ^^^^^^^^^^

I think it is possible to just find reasons "excuses" to throw out if anyone demands them. Don't agree that you are upset with them, have ARCX etc.
Just tell them (truthfully) what Phenomenon said about looking after your unborn child. Then stand back and leave any problems "out there". If there is a problem let it be theirs, not yours. If you keep doing this persistently, other people gradually change and accept the situation, even if they have to go through frustrations with those problems that are THEIRS, not yours.

 

[Domestic Witch]

You've got yourself in a real pickle. Getting pregnant by a man who you knew was a committed scientologist is a difficult situation, because you knew what he believed and having a child will just reenforce his beliefs, since he's just dandy with his 6 year old daughter getting brainwashed on a weekly basis. You knew this from the outset, since his daughter was going to the org weekly at just six years of age. I can only think he will expect the same when your child is old enough to be subjected to it as well.

Go back to college, start making an effort so if the time comes you can care financially for your child on your own if it comes to that. You will not be able to depend on a scientologist husband if you aren't "all in" or disagree with the cult - and they will make your life hell if you try to keep your child out of the CoS or if they think you are disaffected. There are horror stories galore of custody battles between ex-scientologists and their scientologist spouse.

Is your husband's family involved in the cult? Is he a second generation member? If so that's an even tougher situation and I hope that it isn't the case. If its not then you have a better chance of maybe getting him to look at the other side of the coin.

I would keep my mouth shut for the time being. Just try to avoid the subject and do not go to the org., make excuses if necessary.Don't bring up what you've read online unless your husband is giving big signs that he's open to such information or might be disaffected. There's not much you can do if you are currently pregnant, but once the child is born that's when the hard decisions must start. Do all you can to further your education (a real college education, not a useless scientology one) and career so you will not be dependent on your husband or the cult. That is the best advice I can give you for now, it's a very tough situation you have arrived in. I don't think it bodes well at all for the future so be prepared to raise this child on your own if you want to keep it out of the abusive evil clutches of the CoS. IF you aren't on board with the cult they will fight and make life as difficult as possible for you and your child, be prepared. Do everything possible to avoid being dependent on your husband and the cult because if they have power over you they will use it abusively.

If down the road you try to divorce your husband (or he divorces you) they will even use those "life histories" and everything you thought you were divulging privately against you. They will use it against in you in a custody hearing, they will use it to blackmail you. Be prepared for this.

My best friend was raised by scientolgoist parents - his life was a nightmare and he was signed away to the SO as a child. All I can say is you can not allow your soon to be baby to be raised in the cult. If it takes divorcing and leaving your husband to avoid that fate - then you must do it. NO child deserves to be subjected to the CoS and it's evil bullshit.

I must admit I"m just so astounded that the CoS still continues to attract new people into its ranks with all the information that is now easily and freely available. Do you mind if I ask if you did any research into the CoS before you went to it and joined staff? Or was it only after you were on staff and didn't like what you were experiencing that you decided to get online and do research? I'm just curious because all of us here are trying our best to keep "raw meat" out of the cult, but many times we take for granted there must be almost no new members (only 2nd and 3rd generation members) going into the orgs thanks to all the movies, media and internet. (But obviously that's not the case, the cult is still managing to attract fresh meat into its ranks somehow.)

He's not second-generation, though his brother is SO at Flag.

Honestly, I'm not really sure why I got involved. I had been hearing and reading various things in the media and online about the Church since I was 12, but I read Dianetics when I was in a really down-and-out situation and let it get to me. I had just left an abusive relationship and apparently was looking for another! From what I've seen working with Div 6ers and trying to answer the question of why I got involved myself, the new people tend to be in the middle of really hard times--relationship troubles, questioning the religion they were raised in, depressed, recently out of a job--and are looking for answers. I initially went in just to "investigate" and see what those wackadoodles were all about, but all the people I met seemed so friendly and genuinely interested in me. They were the friendliest people I'd ever met, which might tell you a thing or two about the type of people I've spent my life around. I think I just wanted to fit in somewhere and stop being such a lone wolf, really. Obviously it was my mistake and mine alone. Then before I knew it, all my friends were Scientologists and I was in a relationship with a Scientologist and didn't have any interest in leaving because I wanted them to continue respecting me and I didn't want to have to start all over. I probably would have just kept going along with the status quo if I hadn't really confronted the situation after finding out I was pregnant and getting harassed about quitting staff (though I probably would have quit staff anyway; that part I could hardly stand).

But you're definitely right, the majority of the Scientologists I know have their whole families in the Church. This might have been part of the staff's problem with me: I was never very interested in working on getting my family and friends involved, and didn't. All the events talk about how our numbers are swelling and how the numbers of people doing services are skyrocketing, but like we all know, you don't actually ever see it happening. Must be happening at some other org!

Yeah, the idea that we'll ultimately have irreconcilable differences because of this and that I'll be left fairly destitute (since I'm a housewife without a degree) is the only thing that really terrifies me in this situation. My husband is a very compassionate individual, though, so I do think he'll heed my opinions, but this is definitely uncertain territory. I definitely plan on going back to college and at least getting my undergraduate degree, both as security and because what I was studying is really a passion of mine that I miss studying dedicatedly.

Thank you for your response! I do really appreciate your candidness.

 

[Domestic Witch]

Domestic Witch, I don't know how keen you are on hiding your identity, but every single thing you post about yourself and husband (assuming it's true) narrows it down. The regulars here don't care either way, but the cult people who want to keep their staff/public on the treadmill keep track of such things.

Loose lips sink ships, as the wartime slogan went. Or in the cult's case, you stand to lose all your Scn contacts through enforced disconnection.

I wish you well, by the way.

Paul

Hmm, okay, thank you for the advice. Yeah, I would definitely rather stay on their good side, due to the delicacy of the situation. I'll try to be a little more discreet.

 

[Domestic Witch]

Consider the possibility that your husband DOESN'T truly consider himself a Scientologist, and is just "keeping up appearances" because he thinks YOU consider yourself a Scientologist. Or because there are one or more people he's connected with (like ex-wife) who he doesn't want to alienate.

It seems possible that he doesn't want to alienate ex-wife, who I assume is the biological mother of your step daughter, out of concern of what might happen if she wants to take exclusive custody of daughter.

A "Scientologist" who has lost interest in training and auditing is 90% out the door.

That's a good point. He hasn't been receiving auditing or training for quite some time, and isn't interested in either at this time. He's also originated having quite a few disagreements with the way things are at the org to me. Thanks for that perspective on it!

 

[Domestic Witch]

Lol, now I'm all paranoid about "being found out." Raging pregnancy hormones probably don't help.

Thank you everyone for your responses! I'm getting a little too nervous to keep posting but I promise I appreciate every one of them and am giving all of your pieces of advice plenty of thought.