Reason why Scientologists are so unreal

[strativarius]

I am not pleading my case nor trying to reconvert the fallen nor preaching my brand.

[highlight]Others post their views - I post mine[/highlight].

Yes, but why? Very few exes here are really interested in your views [strike]Onan[/strike] Leon.

Edit: Just in case anybody thinks I'm simply calling Leon a 'wanker', I want to make it plain that I didn't intend any such thing. We all know Onan spilled his seed on barren ground... that was my point, that's all.

 

[uncover]

Yes, but why? Very few exes here are really interested in your views [strike]Onan[/strike] Leon.

Reason why Scientologists are so unreal ?
Maybe because they read to much Marvel group Sci-Fi-comics, like their guru El Con Hubbard did ...... praise XEMU the Merciless and his - Marcabrian - 5th Invader Force:

@Leon-2

If you haven´t read it yet, you can buy the source [(c) November 1960] of Hubbard's vomit for only $ 10,-- here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FANTASTIC-FOUR-158-Xemu-the-Merciless-Marvel-Comic-Book-FN-/190866145726

Oh yeah, and this is what is waiting for you:

Xemu was placed on a prison planet for crimes against the universe. .....

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/xemnuthetitan.htm


Now how was your view about Xemu, (dormant) BT's, clusters & Co ?

 

[Bill]

First of all - I have never yet been "upset" on this board.

Secondly - I have always and consistently allowed others to hold their own viewpoints as regards Scientology, based upon there own experiences of it. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

Thirdly - I have never offered to provide any "proof" nor even suggested that such a thing is even possible. Quite the opposite, I have stated on several occasions on this board that the benefits of properly done Scientology are based upon personal experience and are subjective and are NOT quantifiable or provable in any statistical or measurable way.

As to #1:


If you think #1 is now true, does that mean we won't have to put up with your pathetic whining about all of us being "intolerant", "unfair", et.al.? Will you finally be done with playing the victim?

As to #2, well of course. Does this mean that you have finally realized that that's what a discussion is all about - an exchange of different viewpoints? And you'll stop whining about it?

As to #3: You are absolutely correct that proof of Scientology's claims is impossible. One day you'll finally understand why: The claims are false. If they were true, most could be proven. Science has been verifying subjective benefits for hundreds of years. Quit working so hard justifying scientology's lack of results and you will be happier.

If you keep claiming benefits from scientology, I'll keep asking for proof - because you could provide proof if it were true. All you provide is justifications that are not valid.

 

[Enthetan]

Reason why Scientologists are so unreal ?
Maybe because they read to much Marvel group Sci-Fi-comics, like their guru El Con Hubbard did ...... praise XEMU the Merciless and his - Marcabrian - 5th Invader Force:

@Leon-2

If you haven´t read it yet, you can buy the source [(c) November 1960] of Hubbard's vomit for only $ 10,-- here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FANTASTIC-FOUR-158-Xemu-the-Merciless-Marvel-Comic-Book-FN-/190866145726

Oh yeah, and this is what is waiting for you:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/xemnuthetitan.htm


Now how was your view about Xemu, (dormant) BT's, clusters & Co ?

Yes, it IS interesting that a comic character, first published in 1961, would show up in LRH's research five or six years later, now isn't it.

One time I was in bed, half listening to a replay of an old science-fiction radio-serial from the 1940's or so on my radio . (CORRECTION: I had assumed the radio play was old. It was actually created in the 1970's.), and one of the characters mentioned the Marcab Confederacy, and I went "WTF?!?!". I never did catch the name of the serial

UPDATE: Fantastic Four #158 was published in 1975, not the date claimed in ebay.

The character first appeared in 1962 Strange Tales, with his name spelled Zemu.

 

[WildKat]

...
Thirdly - I have never offered to provide any "proof" nor even suggested that such a thing is even possible. Quite the opposite, I have stated on several occasions on this board that the benefits of properly done Scientology are based upon personal experience and are subjective and are NOT quantifiable or provable in any statistical or measurable way.

Good description of DELUSION.

Like the PC who runs an incident from 3 trillion years ago, when she was Queen of the Planet Zendor. Now she walks around with her head held high and a big smile and inflated ego, because it feels SO good to have one's delusions of grandeur validated! She doesn't have to prove anything...she KNOWS!

 

[lotus]

Yes, it IS interesting that a comic character, first published in 1961, would show up in LRH's research five or six years later, now isn't it.

One time I was in bed, half listening to a replay of an old science-fiction radio-serial from the 1940's or so on my radio . (CORRECTION: I had assumed the radio play was old. It was actually created in the 1970's.), and one of the characters mentioned the Marcab Confederacy, and I went "WTF?!?!". I never did catch the name of the serial

UPDATE: Fantastic Four #158 was published in 1975, not the date claimed in ebay.

The character first appeared in 1962 Strange Tales, with his name spelled Zemu.

What's wrong with that Enthetan ????? :confused2:

Ron was a visionnary
One of the first to practice intensive recylcing - very ecologic humanitarian

 

[lotus]

Good description of DELUSION.

Like the PC who runs an incident from 3 trillion years ago, when she was Queen of the Planet Zendor. Now she walks around with her head held high and a big smile and inflated ego, because it feels SO good to have one's delusions of grandeur validated! She doesn't have to prove anything...she KNOWS!

Exactly

I wonder why it never ever happens that they discover they were either a criminal, a homeless, or a nobody in their previous life...

I know few of them who were ..guess who ?????


They were L. Ron Hubbard...
(and became an instrospection Rd candidate in this lifetime...)

It only prooves $cientologists don't have bt's stuck to them..they are celeb bt's

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Good description of DELUSION.

Like the PC who runs an incident from 3 trillion years ago, when she was Queen of the Planet Zendor. Now she walks around with her head held high and a big smile and inflated ego, because it feels SO good to have one's delusions of grandeur validated! She doesn't have to prove anything...she KNOWS!

Which brings us right back to the original topic
and how scienologists see themselves and those around them.

High purpose heroic status is the storyline or what
you might call the backdrop or cosmology of a certain universe
of thought.

The Matrix story runs parallel and offers a very good explanation of
the weird or unreal decisions made by scientologist in regards to things
like familial disconnection and paying huge sums of money for what
any of the main population see as an obvious con and scam.

The ego stroking is a major part, there is one thing a scientologist
loathes and that is being a simple human being, a grain of sand on
a huge beach, a common every day person without super powers.

Yeah Hubbard played that card to the hilt, the elite the loyal officers
with galactic responsibities etc etc etc etc ad nauseum

 

[WildKat]

The ego stroking is a major part, there is one thing a scientologist
loathes and that is being a simple human being, a grain of sand on
a huge beach, a common every day person without super powers.

Yep. I noticed that those who stay in for decades have to keep building up their ego, whether it's the status of doing OT levels or collecting IAS awards. Rising in Scn is all about ego and status, which they feel gives them power.

They will have a pretty rude awakening one day.

 

[lotus]

Yep. I noticed that those who stay in for decades have to keep building up their ego, whether it's the status of doing OT levels or collecting IAS awards. Rising in Scn is all about ego and status, which they feel gives them power.

They will have a pretty rude awakening one day.

I had dinner few days ago with few exes..that was pretty much the conclusion we came to.
We all said that we felt so blessed and grateful to have found the courage to give up at EGO and STATUS and go walk the loneliness path of deprogramming...what great discoveries we made, like most of people here.
What a funny new real adventure in discovering the true Self and the true life challenges.
Coming back home!

Isn't it sad .... :confused2: Especially for those in their 70's, 80's for whom , the perspective to rebuilt a new life will appear more and more difficult and challenging.

CO$ - Cult Of Status

 

[Leon-2]

You guys did a totally different Scientology to the one I did. Honestly. There is just no comparison between what you describe and what took place in the 1960s and early 70s.

It's no wonder that we can find no common ground. There isn't any.

 

[Gib]

You guys did a totally different Scientology to the one I did. Honestly. There is just no comparison between what you describe and what took place in the 1960s and early 70s.

It's no wonder that we can find no common ground. There isn't any.

There's also a discrepancy between your time in and before scientology, in the 1950's Dianetics era, and even the 1949 era pre-release Dianetics when LRH was involved with Campbell, Winters, Heinlein. You can read about that time period in the Heinlein letters which are actual letters between Heinlein, Campbell and Hubbard.

I've provided links in my tread to buy the letters for a few bucks. These letters are actual pdf photograpghs of the letters, and they are copyrighted so no cut and paste is allowed.

John McMaster, Mayo and Bill Franks were involved in your time period.

 

[Anonycat]

You guys did a totally different Scientology to the one I did. Honestly. There is just no comparison between what you describe and what took place in the 1960s and early 70s.

It's no wonder that we can find no common ground. There isn't any.

That's when I was in the cult. My uncle was in around 1950. So yeah, we have no common ground. I know too much.

 

[JustSheila]

]You guys did a totally different Scientology to the one I did. Honestly. [/B]There is just no comparison between what you describe and what took place in the 1960s and early 70s.

It's no wonder that we can find no common ground. There isn't any.

That's because they stopped making real LSD after the 60s and 70s, when you were in. That's why I believe you really did do a totally different Scientology than anyone else, too.

Everyone's trip was different, man.

Shit just wasn't the same after that.

 

[Leon-2]

Well, if you were into that shit then I suppose you would know.

But apart from the years - I was in South Africa and as far as the Scientology/Sea Org culture and practices went we generally ran about 7 to 10 years behind the USA. We had the occasional mission in the early 70s that tried to shake things up, but as soon as they left we went back to our old sleepy ways again.

hey - drugs? - I've never taken any. Of the street variety. Nix. And it was very seldom that we got someone into the Org who had.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

You guys did a totally different Scientology to the one I did. Honestly. There is just no comparison between what you describe and what took place in the 1960s and early 70s.

It's no wonder that we can find no common ground. There isn't any.

This comment has some merit.

Depending on where and when you got onto or off this decent into darkness makes all the difference - but it is still the same train and this is where it was always heading.

 

[JustSheila]

Thanks, Leon. I was just teasing you.

When I've heard that comment from anyone who had been in LA, though, the difference was in their heads. They didn't even see people being abused right next to them, around them. Missed all the people who disappeared. They somehow were present at the same overboardings, RPF assignments, heard the same Hubbard screaming and yelling incoherently, saw the same amount of sickness and child abuse, but somehow were in a miracle bubble where they managed to turn it all off and be in that place with the unicorns anyway.

On their own trips, so to speak. Completely oblivious of everything around them and with a damaged selective memory of events, too.

I can't say how it was in So Africa for a public Scientologist in the 60s and 70s. Maybe others here can. Are you saying there were no crimes in Scn and everyone was paid well? The Sea Org didn't exist or was highly paid and only working M-F? That there were no children being kept from school to work at the orgs there? That there weren't people being declared SP, separated from their families? No goldenrod declares then?

Or did you simply never notice all that was going on when others did?

 

[Enthetan]

I had dinner few days ago with few exes..that was pretty much the conclusion we came to.
We all said that we felt so blessed and grateful to have found the courage to give up at EGO and STATUS and go walk the loneliness path of deprogramming...what great discoveries we made, like most of people here.
What a funny new real adventure in discovering the true Self and the true life challenges.
Coming back home!

Isn't it sad .... :confused2: Especially for those in their 70's, 80's for whom , the perspective to rebuilt a new life will appear more and more difficult and challenging.

CO$ - Cult Of Status

To me, Scientology was more than just ego and status -- it was a promise of adventure.

Adventure was what drew me in. The prospect of being involved in "space opera" for real, rather then a future of going to work in an office, getting a house in the suburbs, and wondering if that was all there was to life.

 

[JustSheila]

I'd only met a few Scientologists from So Africa when I was in the SO. Most memorable were Enid and James Byrne. They'd been on the ship and everything with ol Elron.

Enid was the AOLA registrar. Despite having finished through old OT7, she was terrified of Halloween. Oh, she hated costumes. She literally cringed at her desk when any of the staff or public would dress up.

Enid could squeeze blood out of a turnip and did. She knew how to push that 'save you from the continuing cycle of past lives' button and she'd get people to take out loans, mortgage their houses, run up their credit cards, cash out their kids' college funds, and more. All for their 'eternity.'

And more. Yes. Getting other Scientologists to loan money. They still do that now.

In her later years, her husband James became quite abusive to her. Maybe it was always that way, IDK, but I remember the C/O AOLA and others had to work with her every now and then to get her over some terrible, abusive thing James had said or done to her and focus again on her job.

She lived at that desk anywhere from 12 to 20 hours a day, often until 3 or 4 am and returning at 8 am. She rarely even left for anything beyond meals. Her world was that section of her desk and behind it, extending out to the reception area and entrance door to LA, where she would watch who would walk into the door to see who else could be regged for services.

Enid wasn't a bad sort, either. Despite being so tough about taking every last dime from folks because she believed so completely in Scn, she could also be kind sometimes and at least twice advised me not to say things that might have gotten me in trouble and to handle things differently.

Enid was so dedicated, she literally died at her desk with untreated cancer. (There is a thread here on ESMB about it.) RIP, Enid, you poor woman.

James was a whole different character. Always with the grand show, the 'oooh look at me and all my high honors from Hubbard' at every event. He was busted so many times as an auditor I can't even count. Many remember him as a cruel tool of Hubbard's when he came into orgs as a missionaire. To me, recruited into the SO as raw meat, he was like a fake navy captain, a weird caricature of a human being.

James also completed the entire L Ron bridge.

Both Enid and James were in SO Africa as founding SO members at the same time as you, Leon.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

You guys did a totally different Scientology to the one I did. Honestly. There is just no comparison between what you describe and what took place in the 1960s and early 70s.

It's no wonder that we can find no common ground. There isn't any.

You might want to ask Paulette Cooper about that ... ask her about operation freakout (early 1970's) or perhaps I should remind you about this doozy ... Snow White.

Here's a delightful list (1966 onwards) of [STRIKE]mafia hits[/STRIKE] scientology attacking it's "opponents".

You may not have known about these things while they were happening, but I assume you've read about them since?

You're not trying to find any common ground, you seem to go out of your way (as many indies do) to do the exact opposite, and only you know why.