Reason why Scientologists are so unreal

[Elronius of Marcabia]

You guys did a totally different Scientology to the one I did. Honestly. There is just no comparison between what you describe and what took place in the 1960s and early 70s.

It's no wonder that we can find no common ground. There isn't any.

Sounds very unreal Leon.

Why do you suppose that is ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnEYHQ9dscY

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

Thanks, Leon. I was just teasing you.

When I've heard that comment from anyone who had been in LA, though, the difference was in their heads. They didn't even see people being abused right next to them, around them. Missed all the people who disappeared. They somehow were present at the same overboardings, RPF assignments, heard the same Hubbard screaming and yelling incoherently, saw the same amount of sickness and child abuse, but somehow were in a miracle bubble where they managed to turn it all off and be in that place with the unicorns anyway.

On their own trips, so to speak. Completely oblivious of everything around them and with a damaged selective memory of events, too.

I can't say how it was in So Africa for a public Scientologist in the 60s and 70s. Maybe others here can. Are you saying there were no crimes in Scn and everyone was paid well? The Sea Org didn't exist or was highly paid and only working M-F? That there were no children being kept from school to work at the orgs there? That there weren't people being declared SP, separated from their families? No goldenrod declares then?

Or did you simply never notice all that was going on when others did?

Excellent post!

I need someone to explain to me why the most notorious Sec-Check (up until the Truth R/D) was named after a city in South Africa?

The point that seems to be getting made by Leon is his experience was so much better than a lot of other people because geographically and politically it was more removed from the pernicious effects of LRH and the Sea Org. If so, thats kind of like saying WWII wasn't so bad because you were in Brazil.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

To me, Scientology was more than just ego and status -- it was a promise of adventure.

Adventure was what drew me in. The prospect of being involved in "space opera" for real, rather then a future of going to work in an office, getting a house in the suburbs, and wondering if that was all there was to life.

Yup Mr Anderson felt the same way and so did I at one time
false choice though is'nt it Neo/Mr Anderson and of course the "Choice"
is going to be "High Adventure" and the heroic figure Neo.

Who would choose boring old loser Mr Anderson ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6oBbBfhgYE

 

[Leon-2]

When heavy ethics came in about 67 or 68 there were some crazy declares and everyone saw how destructive they were to Orgs. There were far far less after that. I got into Scio in 69, in 1970 I started training and doing it intensively. I don't recall any SP declares being issued in the first many years after that. I was DofP, ED, OES for years and I never issued any. HCO was usually manned by the most incompetent person we could find so that no shit got stirred up.

I myself only ever booted one person out of the Org and that was because he punched the course supervisor in the face. She was pregnant at the time. I simply told him to get the hell out of the Org and never come back, and that was the end of it.

First S.O. base started towards July 71. There were just a few guys there trying hard to be friendly so as to get some money in.

James Byrne was from Cape Town but that was before I got into Scio. I met him for the first time on the Apollo in 1971 - he was Action Aide. We never had much to do with each other, just chatted on occasion. It was before he met Edith. She was from Joburg. From the descriptions above she was certainly very PTS to him. Poor girl.

The first really serious S.O mission was in about 77 or thereabouts. Sue Hansen was i/c. So yeah, she raved and frothed and bellowed but you just keep your TRs in knowing that they'll soon be gone again. Later Jens Bogvad came on a mission. That was a pretty good one. Things got better but after they had regged all the money there was their stats started going down again and they were left with lots of egg on their faces.

You must remember too that south Africa was a very unusual society for many reasons, quite apart from the racial segregation. 70 percent of all the money that got spent in the country was spent in the Joburg area. The rest of the country was sleepy hollow. About 85 percent of the joburg stock market's shares were owned by just 5 big corporation - the biggest being Anglo-American (read Rothschild). They owned the country and really called the shots, including full though covert support for Apartheid and cheap black labour.

The only real market for Scio was the whites - the rest never had money for it - and most of the whites wouldn't touch it with a bargepole - the Afrikaners because it wasn't christian protestant, and the jews because they saw that big cross at the front door and so just turned around and walked off again. So what did that leave as a public to be served? about a million or so people spread across the country and five Orgs desperately trying to serve them all.

These figures just don't add up to anything viable. And the Sea Org knew it and so they didn't bother us much.

Mind you - one of the big S.O. reges was John Lundeen. He got into regging in South Africa in about 73 or 4. Married Edie Vilensky - a lovely girl, also from Cape Town. I audited her mother quite a bit.

So yeah. The insanity that you guys in the USA, and especially California, went through just never happened where I was. Also we never had the drug problems you guys had. Pot was mostly something the blacks smoked and as for LSD, this was so rare we hardly even took notice of it.

 

[lotus]

I like these posts of how it was then and there.

:wink2:

 

[JustSheila]

Leon,

Thanks very much for giving your history and some details about things in So Africa and Johannesburg and why things were that way back then.

It was educational.

For me, my favorite post from you.

Can you tell some stories of odd things or historical things that happened within COS then?

 

[JustSheila]

James Byrne was from Cape Town but that was before I got into Scio. I met him for the first time on the Apollo in 1971 - he was Action Aide. We never had much to do with each other, just chatted on occasion. It was before he met Edith. She was from Joburg. From the descriptions above she was certainly very PTS to him. Poor girl.

As you know, Leon, I don't go in for the PTS/SP stuff, but I know what you're saying. James Byrne seemed to me a complicated man, though. Again, I was only young then and did not grow up in Scn so maybe what seemed odd to me would have been ideal survival behavior under L Ron Hubbard in the cult of Scientology.

James was never mean or verbally abusive to me in any way and I never witnessed him abusing Enid, other than a rare, occasional sharp word and turning his heel and walking away. In fact, he was a very social character and a good storyteller. James Byrne's ambition was to be an auditor and he wanted desperately to spend the rest of his years doing just that. Dean Blair might remember. At the time, Val Lisa was C/O AOLA and since James was one of the original ship sailers like her, they had special comeraderie. She knocked herself out to keep James Byrne auditing in the NOTS HGC, but he did terribly. Just about everything Val Lisa did had some hidden reason behind it other than the obvious, it was just the way she was. Anyway, there were some catastrophes in the NOTS Division AOLA with two or more of James' NOTS pc's and Val kept putting him in the auditor's chair and James didn't want to give up. Then something bad happened. I don't know what, but that was the end of James Byrne auditing at AOLA.

Prior to that, others mentioned him being pretty rough as a missionaire. He may have had one of those bans on him from ever managing again. Some SO Execs had that. It was all very sikrit sikrit, but L Ron used to ban certain people from being an executive or managing and it would last their whole lives.

James had been made a Lieutenant by L Ron, last I knew. I don't remember him making it to Captain, but there were very few people recognized as Captain by Hubbard. Lt. Irene Dirmann was another, I think her husband Jack was also a Lt. but Face would probably know better than me. James boasted and flaunted his status and that arrogance was a real turn-off to me. Still, people do things to survive when they are in closed environments. I can't judge him. Maybe the boasting kept him out of the RPF or gave L Ron confidence in him.

It takes some heart to want to be an auditor and I think James had a lot of heart, despite whatever bad side he must apparently showed to Enid or when he was an executive. People are complicated and James was that. James Byrne may or may not be alive anymore, IDK, but I hope however his life is now or wherever he is, that he's made peace with his good side and found his real self, not the one he had to be to survive Scientology, L Ron Hubbard and the Sea Org.

 

[Leon-2]

LRH always had a few thugs close to him to enforce things. The Bolivar policy describes this well.

James Byrne was one of those thugs. Bill Robertson was another, and I know of others too.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Snipped.

So yeah. The insanity that you guys in the USA, and especially California, went through just never happened where I was.

England was probably the place to be if you wanted to see some real scientology insanity in the time period you mention (1960's till present day) as evidenced by the GO (OSA) mafia style links I posted earlier along with the thousands of stories and documents from people who were there and did experience it ... and I still say there is no justification for anyone to keep trying to pretty things up and constantly point out the "good" in scientology just because they were not hurt personally.

 

[AngeloV]

Scientology is scientology regardless of where or when you practiced it. Whether it was in South Africa, South America or South Sudan....whether it was in the 1950's, the 1970's or the 2000's...it's still the writings and spewings of a pathological liar.

Scio is good for one thing: It is a great learning tool to teach young adults what a cult is and how a cult gets its claws into people and sucks them in. I've used the book DMSMH to explain the difference between a science, a theory and a hypothesis. I've also used it as a prime example of a pseudoscience. This I have done with some of my friends, my child and plan to do it with my grandchildren when they get old enough. I call it cult-proofing.

LRH lied when he called dianetics a science. His lies and exaggerations then flowed from his pen and his pie hole like snot from the nose of someone with a bad cold...for decades.

Freezoners continue to delude themselves, ever chasing the elusive and non-existent states of clear and OT. I cannot describe it any other way. If they cannot see the lies for what they are despite all of the proof right before their eyes, then they are deluding themselves. How can someone know that the OT III story is a complete fabrication yet STILL audit it and get 'gains' and not be deluded?

As to Fz'ers posting to ESMB: they must either be narcissists or gluttons for punishment or both. You Fz'ers perpetuate the lies, exaggerations and meanness of LRH. That is why you're are disliked and even hated. People have been seriously hurt by scio. You shoving it in our faces like someone forcing the ex-wife of an abuser husband into his presence and telling her how good a tennis player he is.

 

[Enthetan]

England was probably the place to be if you wanted to see some real scientology insanity in the time period you mention (1960's till present day) as evidenced by the GO (OSA) mafia style links I posted earlier along with the thousands of stories and documents from people who were there and did experience it ... and I still say there is no justification for anyone to keep trying to pretty things up and constantly point out the "good" in scientology just because they were not hurt personally.

The supposed good was used to justify the bad.

You can justify lots of bad things (for example, the incineration of cities, as happened in WW2) with the idea that it was necessary in order to preserve the good that you are fighting for.

Something that is promoted as being infinitely good (like Scientology, like Communism) can be used to justify the commission of almost-infinite evil.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaodAu6uLM

 

[Hypatia]

So you don't think the Matrix is a good analogy of how Scientologists see the world around them ?

I disagree I think Hubbard screwed it up horribly to begin with and what you see now was going to
be unavoidable.

When I was in it, I got nothing but mixed signals. I was told I was better and more capable than"wogs". But nothing I did in or out of Scientology was good enough.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

When I was in it, I got nothing but mixed signals. I was told I was better and more capable than"wogs". But nothing I did in or out of Scientology was good enough.

That would definetly create a feeling of uncertainty and unreality.

But since there are no wogs except within the Scio Universe of Delusional and Science Fictional
characters like in the Matrix and many other science fiction stories where the hero's
narrative is served by these lesser class of human beings.

Our heroic character must have these lessers to save and build plot around
otherwise who cares and the Hero is left without purpose and no one to save
and a good villain or nemisis is always needed to enhance the hero's goodness
and righteousness in his quest for freedom for all and justice for ?? just pluggin
whatever group you want, its good if they are some sort of under dogs facing insurmountable
odds a small elite group of special people called upon to save the day.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

We don't need another hero, another process another path or another Guru
Love and Compassion it's day is coming

Tina has it so right in this song it sends chills up my spine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwRPXmcggdY