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Reasons Why I'm Out and Other Thoughts About The Con

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
At this point, I'm surprised any long time Scn'ist who's been around the block x number of times and seen ANY of the crap the cult pulls is still a member. I know I was probably pretty fucking dense but even I figured it out. I'm surprised there are any die-hards left, yet it appears that there still are some.

Welcome, Bill!
 

billheichert

Patron with Honors
Great posting, Bill. You'll get the hang of the message board. And the nice thing about ESMB, you don't get hit for reviving an old thread (a topic on the message board).

Was the mission where I met you bugged? Or did it not need to be, because it was so small and you could hear everything anyway?

I always wondered why different terminals would show up, right when they should. LOL!!!

the mission wasn't bugged.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Nice clean concise summation!

Very interesting. clean, and concise summation. A lot of this stuff is on other threads and a few things aren't. It is in the art of summation and hitting the key points effectively with few words where Bill really shines.

Just a couple of comments on Reg cycles. First, one common ploy I encountered is that I would be asked for my credit cards, so as to check their balance.The reg at AOLA, Jeff Mintz, who I actually liked, asked me for my 3 cards and left the room. In a couple minutes he returned and said that two were maxed out but one still HAD $3,000 left on it (Note the use of the past tense for "had"). I said, that's good to know. He then asked me if I was making the payments on time, I said yes and he said let me call in and see if I can get you a raise in your credit limit and he was able to increase my credit limit by a thousand each of the two other cards.

The next day I went to use the card that Mintz said had $3,000 left and it was declined. I checked on the phone and Jeff had drawn the entire $3,000 out without my permission or without telling me directly. When he said it had $3,000 on it in the past tense, he meant that literally, it had $3,000 on it before he took it out. I called up the Credit Card company and reversed the $3,000 back to me. I did not tell Mintz or the Church I had reversed the charges and a week or so later, the FBO called me and started playing hardball, threatening me with lower conditions and I played hardball with him and said I was tricked and if he pursues the matter further, I would report it to the authorities. This was in 2002, the last time I ever set foot in a reg office. That scan by Jeff was the final straw when I decided to leave for good and never come back in.

ONE FINAL COMMENT ON THE REG TECHNIQUE OF REGGING ONE ON A TECHNICAL ESTIMATE AND THEN TELLING HIM/HER THAT THE ESTIMATE WAS TOO LOW AND THEY NEED MORE MONEY BEFORE STARTING.

I did not know this was policy. I just learned it from reading Bill's post. It was done on me by Gretchen and Fred Schwartz at AOLA in 1977 regarding my first trip to Flag. After that, I avoided and even shunned Gretchen and Fred, figuring they were the cullprits, having no idea that they were following LRH Policy and were merely his accomplices. I shunned the wrong target! That type of regging has a very common legal name, it is known as a "Bait and Switch" technique. If such a charge can be proved in court, then that is considered F"raud" and and the plaintiff can seek triple damages if he wins a judgement.
Lakey
 
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Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Glad I didn't even have any credit cards when I was in. Wow. But this constant grabbing at my bank account was a major reason for me to blow also. How is it that criminals get away, and law abiding people get shafted?
 

billheichert

Patron with Honors
Credit Cards & debt

One of the common things was to call the bank amd get a guy's credit limit increased so that "he could pay for his tuition" There is a "tuition" special that is going to end and that is why he needs an increase in his limit. The reg, telling the bank that it was for "tuition" seemed to work. I made those calls as did many other reges. In the 1980's & 1990's it usually worked to get limits increased on the spot.

Reges were not supposed to set up loans for people. However in LA there were a few well off scientologists who would lend money at very high interest, to public using emeters or books & tapes as collateral. A lot of reges used these people.

It's easy to see why so many scientologists are in such deep holes of debt.....

Is it any wonder that Enid, Chief Reg AOLA died of brain cancer...I really liked her. But she was taken in by the same con that I was...
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome Bill - we might know each other. I was on staff at LA Day for 7 years in the 90's myself. I am curious if we know each other.

And YES. Each and every reg phone, desk and the one reg office with a door to it were all bugged. Here's the major out point: The ED/CO for LA Day could listen to the reg cycle from his office. Now why would anyone but say the Cramming Officer or even the Qual Sec need to hear those reg cycles huh? In fact, I don't know that Qual EVER listened to a reg cycle while I was there.

Reg cycles were discusses at length during meetings as well. There were registration meetings that would include the Tech Sec, The PSS (Public Servicing Sec – Div 6B Sec), and the intro auditing Auditor. Can you say out-point? The C/S would refuse to come to these meetings, though she would be instructed to come on the rare occasion. 3
The pc that was on the registration line up would be discussed at length – personal issues like investments, the pc’s relationship with their husband/wife, parents, children – anything that could be used to influence the pc to cough up a “Clear Package” or roughly $50K. Or to clear out anything that would interfere with the reg cycle – like a pesky wife wanting her husband to come home, a case problem would be jumped all over to make sure the pc was happy so they could be regged.

Yeah the registration practices of scientology are not exactly above board.

I never saw anything like this going on until John Woodruff became our ED and took over the registration for LA Day.


Isn't it interesting that when ever they re-release something because they "discovered" that it was incomplete, or in the wrong order or, or, or...such as the pts/sp course, they make the public buy it again. When you buy something at a store that isn't right, they replace it for free. Additionally, DM stands up at events and points out how something was released in it's wrong form or incomplete etc. and then sells the remedy to that error to the public. doesn't anyone notice that he is in charge of RTC who is in charge of making sure that things released are right when they are released? he admits his own incompetence and then get standing ovations for it! he is very good at what he does (con man).

Most people , in or out, don't realize that a few years ago all scn were made to sign some waivers. One was that they were agreeing to taking scn courses "based on the works of lrh". thsy don't get that they were actually agreeing to use altered tech. Even Ron wanted everyone to use his "tec" to further the con, not someone's interpretation or alteration of it. I guess it doesn't really matter since none of it works as promised but this data can be used to help those who are in to see what is going on and then they can dig deeper.

The other waiver that they all willing signed was to give permission for them to be delivered the same rundown that killed Lisa M. ...Too bad...
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
What about Pam Kilmartin and Gretchen?

One of the common things was to call the bank amd get a guy's credit limit increased so that "he could pay for his tuition" There is a "tuition" special that is going to end and that is why he needs an increase in his limit. The reg, telling the bank that it was for "tuition" seemed to work. I made those calls as did many other reges. In the 1980's & 1990's it usually worked to get limits increased on the spot.

Reges were not supposed to set up loans for people. However in LA there were a few well off scientologists who would lend money at very high interest, to public using emeters or books & tapes as collateral. A lot of reges used these people.

It's easy to see why so many scientologists are in such deep holes of debt.....

Is it any wonder that Enid, Chief Reg AOLA died of brain cancer...I really liked her. But she was taken in by the same con that I was...

I liked Enid too, though I suspected I was being scammed, I looked upon her as a good person doing what she really believed was the most good for the most dynamics, same for Jeff Mintz and his very nice wife, Anne. Another fairly decent person who regged for a long time and became extremely sickly looking and looked as if she was dying was Pam Kilmartin. After she left AOLA, I ran into her and she was working for John Force, the dragracing driver. Then Gretchen Schwartz just past away. I know nothing of the circumstances. Does anyone have any skinny on those reges? Good old Hector Carmona from CCLA was spotted at the Nancy Many booksigning in November and has been out of the Church for a long time and is looking well.
Cathy Garcia of CCLA was at CCLA when I got there way back in 1970 and is still the head reg at CCLA.
Lakey
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
I liked Enid too, though I suspected I was being scammed, I looked upon her as a good person doing what she really believed was the most good for the most dynamics, same for Jeff Mintz and his very nice wife, Anne. Another fairly decent person who regged for a long time and became extremely sickly looking and looked as if she was dying was Pam Kilmartin. After she left AOLA, I ran into her and she was working for John Force, the dragracing driver. Then Gretchen Schwartz just past away. I know nothing of the circumstances. Does anyone have any skinny on those reges? Good old Hector Carmona from CCLA was spotted at the Nancy Many booksigning in November and has been out of the Church for a long time and is looking well.
Cathy Garcia of CCLA was at CCLA when I got there way back in 1970 and is still the head reg at CCLA.
Lakey


The Mintz's are still in. My daughter hangs out with their daughter. Their daughter is not in the SO and I don't know if she ever was. But I know their daughter has NO problem with my daughter talking to her SP Mother. The girl grew up in the cadet org and apparently has some serious disagreements. As far as I understand, she doesn't even feel like she has parents. And when I knew the Mintz's (as my reg's) I would have never guessed in a million years that they even had a child or children. (You know how you can sort of tell when someone is a parent?)
 

Kutta

Silver Meritorious Patron
I am sure the information on this thread would be very helpful to Senator Xenothon. If documentation of personal experiences and or perpetrations or reg scams have not already been sent to him, please do so.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Is it any wonder that Enid, Chief Reg AOLA died of brain cancer...I really liked her. But she was taken in by the same con that I was...

I'd forgotten all about Enid. I used to talk to her on occasion when I was in. She was a neat lady. I'm sorry she didn't get the care she needed. :bigcry:
 
This Reg. room being bugged situation is disgusting.

I hope many go on line and run into this thread. Any on lines Scientologist that runs into this thread and doesn't run immediately out the door is a fool.

As to Enid, she was a smoker and the Reg. room was always full of smoke. It's a wonder anyone could survive in there, but that's the way it was inside the Orgs. and Missions in those days.

These days, pre-clears and pre-ots smoke outside if that's any consolation.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Good to finally exchange posts with you!

The Mintz's are still in. My daughter hangs out with their daughter. Their daughter is not in the SO and I don't know if she ever was. But I know their daughter has NO problem with my daughter talking to her SP Mother. The girl grew up in the cadet org and apparently has some serious disagreements. As far as I understand, she doesn't even feel like she has parents. And when I knew the Mintz's (as my reg's) I would have never guessed in a million years that they even had a child or children. (You know how you can sort of tell when someone is a parent?)

Kathy (I'm out): Thanks for the update on the Mintz's plus the startling news that their daughter is allowed to play with your daughter when they know you have been declared. I see you around the board posting a lot and usually like your posts but this is the first time we've exchanged posts.
Lakey
 
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