Rebuttal from CofS on allegations of cover up on child abuse

In my copy of 'The Way To Happiness', in small print in the back of the booklet, it says:

"This may be the first non-religious moral code based wholly on common sense. It was written by L. Ron Hubbard as an individual work and is not part of any religious doctrine..."

If Scientology wants to use 'TWTH' as a PR gimmick, or PR cover, as "basic teachings" of the "Scientology religion," then I assume they've had copies printed without the words cited above.

And if 'TWTH' is, now, part of Scientology "religious doctrine," and is, now, "basic teachings of the Church of Scientology," then it is no longer a "secular moral code," and can no longer be promoted as a "non-religious moral code."


Nice go, though not strictly true. There is no reason that a religion could not adopt a completely secular text as a part of its recognized body of doctrine. As an obvious extreme example, notice that "jedi" is a recognized religion for purposes of officialdom in a chunk of the western world although it certainly was not Spielberg's intention when creating the first Star Wars film.

Perhaps a more traditional example would be Taoism, which is ostensibly based on the Tao Te Ching historically ascribed to Lao Tzu. Clearly, as laid out in the work, Lao Tzu was simply recording his own views on the natural interconnectedness of life. These ideas later became the basis of extensive spiritual philosophizing by others. Ultimately this has resulted in the establishment of numerous religious institutions over the millenia based around the principles laid out originally in Lao Tzu's book. That which had a secular origin ultimately became the basis of religious doctrines.

In the specific instance of TWTH cited, given Hubbard's position as author of the work in question and simultaneously "Founder" & "Source" of the religion of scientology and its church, it's a pretty clear attempt at public bamboozlement in pursuit of religious evangelism. So well spotted on that.


Mark A. Baker
 

HelluvaHoax!

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HappyGirl

Gold Meritorious Patron
I can see by this "statement" I am going to have to come out of my "witness protection" I can't just sit back and do nothing or have everyone think I don't know what I'm talking about....

I am Phoebe Rainer and I will post a reply to this statement, because I want to make sure the facts are correct, it may take me some time so in the meantime, I thought I would let you all know that what I have said previously is because "I lived it" not because I "heard it on the grapevine"...

I am a different person to the one that was in the "cult" and I know it's a bit late coming but I will stand by my daughter and defend her to the death - and I will take "no shit" that anyone might try and put on her... She is a beautiful person that was "fucked up" by a "cult" and it's belief system, she is paying for this daily while I have to watch, helplessly, but I am going to do something about it now!!!!!!!
:omg: :clap: :thumbsup: :cheerleader: :hifive: :thewave:
 
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Feral

Rogue male
Welcome Pheobe!

You were very courageous on late line!

I'm sorry we didn't get to know each other before.

:rose:
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
Welcome Phoebe.

I am waiting for your reply to the lies written by the cult. I know it'll be the truth.

Thank you for appearing on "Night line".

Opter
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
More propaganda by the CoS. Not surprising at all. That is what they do when met with criticism on a grand scale - twist, lie, distort, in attempts to distract and attack back. Poor fools in OSA and PR don't know how this just does not work in the real world. When members get a glimpse of real truth, they usually never forget it. They hold it secret from the church , store it away for future reference with all the other out-points noted and ongoing.

Anyone still in who is reading this, look at both sides of the issue. Look at all the videos and reports on the internet, besides that of Carmen and Phoebe, from multiple victims of Scientology' s abuse and neglect of children and their distain of any authority outside the church that could expose what is going on. Look at your friend's marriages broken to bits, not allowing mothers to use the courts to obtain their right to child support, or the other parent not being able to visit their children. Think for yourself on these. Act on what you have stored away in your mind that you know is just so wrong with what is going on around you, when the time is right and it is safe for you to walk away before it's too late.
 
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Reply to Co$ rebuttal

I'm still not very good with navigating around this site. :pcpunch:

I would have loved to have attached some other posts and answered them, but am not sure yet how to do that... but:::::

Thank you, Scooter, Kevin and Opter for your kind words. Kevin, I don't know if we ever met? so Hi now....:wave:

Ok, somehow Emma is going to insert my document for you all to read... once I started doing it, I sorta felt I was putting too much attention on "them" and wanted to stop, but I promised so here it is.... I have not put any comments on parts I have no knowledge on but there is a comment at the end..

AND just in case there is anyone lurking around that is still in and reading this, I'm not afraid of you, you have NOTHING I want and THE TRUTH HAS SET ME FREE!!!!!

Thanks to everyone and especially Carmen my very brave daughter!!! :love8::biglove:


Welcome Phoebe.

I am waiting for your reply to the lies written by the cult. I know it'll be the truth.

Thank you for appearing on "Night line".

Opter

Keep up the good work everyone!!!!:thankyou:
 

Attachments

  • Statement-of-Church-of-Scientology-regar-1.pdf
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I'm still not very good with navigating around this site. :pcpunch:

I would have loved to have attached some other posts and answered them, but am not sure yet how to do that... but:::::

Thank you, Scooter, Kevin and Opter for your kind words. Kevin, I don't know if we ever met? so Hi now....:wave:

Ok, somehow Emma is going to insert my document for you all to read... once I started doing it, I sorta felt I was putting too much attention on "them" and wanted to stop, but I promised so here it is.... I have not put any comments on parts I have no knowledge on but there is a comment at the end..

AND just in case there is anyone lurking around that is still in and reading this, I'm not afraid of you, you have NOTHING I want and THE TRUTH HAS SET ME FREE!!!!!

Thanks to everyone and especially Carmen my very brave daughter!!! :love8::biglove:




Keep up the good work everyone!!!!:thankyou:

I wonder what Mike Rinder has to say about all this.

Oh.

He has a big agreement with the BBC and he can't say anything right now.

I forgot.
 

Doom

Lurking.
Dear Phoebe,

Just read that answer to the smoking hole that was OSA ANZO and frankly you make them look like rookies.

Keep your chin high the truth is out.
 

Carmel

Crusader
I'm still not very good with navigating around this site. :pcpunch:

I would have loved to have attached some other posts and answered them, but am not sure yet how to do that... but:::::
I'll let ya know how to do that (not that I do it properly. lol)

Ok, somehow Emma is going to insert my document for you all to read... once I started doing it, I sorta felt I was putting too much attention on "them" and wanted to stop, but I promised so here it is.... I have not put any comments on parts I have no knowledge on but there is a comment at the end..
Thanks for taking the time to do it. I reckon that sometimes it's worth it, and your info is good. :)

AND just in case there is anyone lurking around that is still in and reading this, I'm not afraid of you, you have NOTHING I want and THE TRUTH HAS SET ME FREE!!!!!
Good on ya babe, you rock! :D

I've been a bit tied up since I posted the op, and haven't gotten to respond in detail, but I just want to add a few details now.......

- On the morning that Carmen was being coached in the org (I believe there were a few times), she was due to be in session. I was told what was occurring, and was asked to go and get her (I was friends with Jan Eastgate and I could get away with going into the DS area). I went into the DSA area to see what was going on. In the hallway, before I was spotted, I *heard* what was going on, and realised that she *was* being coached to lie to authorities.

- I objected to what was going on, and argued with Jan and then two other DSA staff who had joined in. The told me it was none of my business and two of them physically escorted me out of the area.

- At that point I tried to get agreement from some Execs in the org that this shouldn't be happening (I was C/S at the time), and that Robert should be facing criminal charges for what he had done.

- I was assigned a condition of treason for kicking up a stink about it and for refusing to have anything further to do with Robert's training as an auditor. I was also threatened with a comm ev for putting the Church at risk.

- I was seen by several people while I was in ethics, who tried to convince me why I was putting the Church at risk, that it was a lesser evil to protect Robert, and that Robert would be dealt with in ethics. I can't recall how long I was in ethics, but it was longer than Robert was.

- Carmen and Phoebe were ordered not to talk to me, and I was ordered not to talk to them.

- I threw in the towel on dealing with the matter. Back then, I didn't have the mindset which would have permitted me to go to outside authorities and tell them that Carmen was being coached to lie. Looking at it now, I could have/should have pulled Phoebe aside and together we could have maybe been able to sort it out, but I didn't.

I have given the information above, in my statement to the police.

While I can't remember all the details of "he said, she said" (it was 25 years ago), I can certainly remember what went down and how I felt about it. It is something that has plagued me ever since. I posted about it in the crimes thread when I was new on this board, and it is something I included in my letter to Nick X which he tabled in Parliament in November.

It is a good thing that what occurred is now being addressed and that it is being investigated by police. Good on you Phoebe and Carmen for putting it on the table. Love and admiration to ya both!
 
And the *justice* from COS was to get the perpertartor to pay the victim's "freeloader bill" off at $100 a week!!!!!

With all that happened, the "church" turned it into a financial profit as well..?????????
 
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- I threw in the towel on dealing with the matter.

You were being actively blocked.


Back then, I didn't have the mindset which would have permitted me to go to outside authorities and tell them that Carmen was being coached to lie.

It takes time to work out the unintended implications of one's actions, particularly when our "filters" have been in place for years. It's not like you understood fully the nature of the beast yourself at that time.


Looking at it now, I could have/should have pulled Phoebe aside and together we could have maybe been able to sort it out, but I didn't.

And now both you & they are, and with a likelihood of a much greater overall impact.


Mark A. Baker
 

AR1977

New Member
- I threw in the towel on dealing with the matter. Back then, I didn't have the mindset which would have permitted me to go to outside authorities and tell them that Carmen was being coached to lie. Looking at it now, I could have/should have pulled Phoebe aside and together we could have maybe been able to sort it out, but I didn't.


Hindsight is 20/20 so many things so many people could have done differently, cant change what happened in the past, Hopefully this will stop them being able to hurt anyone else, ever again.
 
Hey, can someone tell me how to "multi quote" do you just copy and paste?

Would like to reply but don't want to quote the entire message...

Thanks xx
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hey, can someone tell me how to "multi quote" do you just copy and paste?

Would like to reply but don't want to quote the entire message...

Thanks xx

There's a couple of things you can do.

If you want to answer just one post, you simply hit the quote button. You can delete parts you don't want to refer to if you want, OR you can highlight a point and use the big B to make that part bold print. You can also just put quote tags around the parts you want to quote. Use that little cartoon bubble icon to do that easily.

If you want to answer several posts in a thread, you can use the box next to the quote box at the bottom of every post. It has the "+ symbol. The computer will remember this, then when you get to the end of the thread, hit the Reply button and every post that you checked on the way through the thread will appear in the answer box with the name of the poster who originally wrote it. You can then fill in your answers under each one.

Hope this helps.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
Phoenix, click this button
multiquote_off.gif
on each post you want to quote, then press this button
reply.gif
near the top or bottom of the page. You can then edit the posts in your reply to reduce them down.

(Note: then you have to go back and unclick each
multiquote_off.gif
button or they'll turn up in all your replies on this thread.)
 

Carmel

Crusader
Hindsight is 20/20 so many things so many people could have done differently, cant change what happened in the past, Hopefully this will stop them being able to hurt anyone else, ever again.
Yep, hindsight is. The other difference is being "out" and looking at how *off the wall* it all was........Hard to do and to *see* what would otherwise be obvious if you weren't caught up in it all.

And yes, what is happening now is a big step toward helping to prevent others from being hurt the same way, but when it comes to the CofS there's still a ways to go.

Welcome to ESMB AR - Good ta have ya here. :)
 
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