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Rehabilitation Project Force

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Gottabrain

Guest
You're wrong. It was not a suggestion. I do not believe in the rehabilitation of CofS staff or salvageability of the church and I have said so.
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OK. Then why the duality, Claire? Why even start a thread on something that you don't agree with? What is the purpose - what is your point? :shrug:
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I've explained that a couple times today.

Sort of. Whatever, Claire.

Why don't you start a thread on what's really on your mind? Rather than follow me or anyone else around to pick a fight or argument. And I really DO have to go NOW.

Happy New Year. You know I love you.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I found your post here because I'm following my thread. Plus I received an alert. They show up as soon as one logs in.

I responded to you on the other thread because I have been following that one. I didn't follow anyone.

It (the RPF) was and is on my mind and I explained that and my reasoning in posts #6 and 13.

Goodbye.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I found your post here because I'm following my thread. Plus I received an alert. They show up as soon as one logs in.

I responded to you on the other thread because I have been following that one. I didn't follow anyone.

It (the RPF) was and is on my mind and I explained that and my reasoning in posts #6 and 13.

Goodbye.

Thanks, Claire. The other thread had some awesome posts in it related to the subject. So did a couple of other threads that Bardo went off topic on earlier in the day. I kept trying to revive those threads and he kept coming in with non-sequitur comments and discussions on the best threads of the day. Yeh, it's a problem to me when the best and most important discussions are terminated into silliness.

Seriously, though - when you start topics on what is deep in your heart, they are some of the best discussions on ESMB. And I really DO love you - you know that I know what a softy you really are. :heartflower:

But someone is going to be VERY UPSET with me if I don't log off and leave NOW. So just hit like or dislike or something, please, Claire - I had too many years of Scn not to answer you....:duh: :p

Can you PLEASE keep the Addiction to Scn thread back on topic, too? Gotta go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
This is what is wrong with your suggestion.

The entire concept of a Church becoming a law unto itself, the concept that it has any right at all to act as a law in itself and deny the rights of freedom of speech, movement, etc. to others because one does not fit its definition of "correct behaviour" and thereby requires "rehabilitation" is wrong.

See the quote on my signature line, below.

A. I don't see Fluff's op as intended as a serious suggestion for reforming the church or SO.

B. The spirit of her comments IS similar to what Ken Urquhart said was HIS intention in suggesting the creation of the original rpf.


Ken has in effect said that his intent was that it would be a good idea to create an environment where SO members who were, for one reason or another, struggling on post could BE without being made to feel under stress, continue to CONTRIBUTE through some sort of useful physical labor, and get TRAINED and AUDIT each other to help deal with whatever perceived 'case aspects' might be contributing to their struggles.

His idea wasn't to promote punishment of those who were struggling but instead the rehabilitation of original purpose. Some individuals have in their own stories commented that their own experiences with the rpf HAD followed such a pattern rather than the stressed out hell that so many others have experienced.

The idea that Ken proposed was subsequently altered by lrh to conform with his own need for incorporation of elements of control & punishment.

Fluff's comments seem to me to be simply her own fanciful musings along a similar vein to Ken's stated original intention.


Mark A. Baker
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
:hide:

You are right. My withholds, overts, false purposes and rock slams (evil purposes) must be manifesting out of control, resulting in my 1) poor perception, 2) back off, 3) inability to confront evil and 4) inability to remain brutally unreasonable - otherwise I would have followed through with those KEY & VITAL dissemination steps! :sorry:

What can I do to handle my outpoints and weaknesses as a dedicated Scientologist? :begging:

Oh, I know, I will join the Sea Org and report DIRECTLY to the RPF. :giveup:

Then I can 1) cleanse my thetan, 2) remove all those nasty evil purposes off of my case, 3) become responsible, causative, and IN-exchange, and 4) graduate AS an UPSTATE ETHICAL BEING who can finally follow Ron towards acheiving his dream of a cleared planet and salvaged sector!

:dancer: :winner:

I feel lighter already . . . . . :happydance:

Thank-you Mr. Nuclear, and especially thank-you Mr. L. RON HUBBARD for creating this wonderful RPF so that messed up losers like myself can finally have a chance and a place to "come clean", turn that flat ball bearing into a round ball bearing, and be the BEST that we can BE! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Anyone need to co-audit some expanded Dianetics or FPRD???? :whistling:

That is quite a program you designed for yourself, Gads, WELL DONE!!!!!!!!! But you forgot to include a trip to cramming, where you will do 3 months of clay demo's on ASKING FOR, DEMANDING, AND GETTING THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pete
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Well, you know that my opening post was facetious and lighthearted. It started like this:

The other night I was ranting to my husband about the RPF and how the HELL can it rehabilitate anyone when all they do is be mean to the person? Of course the cult doesn't want to rehabilitate. They want to INTIMIDATE. I was truly angry about this - I mean, I always am but the other night I was really hot under the collar. I'd just read Petey's story and was again reminded of how fucked up this shit is.

The thing is, it doesn't take much to piss the cult off. So people end up in the RPF for committing actual IRL crimes like child abuse, for having low stats, for pissing off the wrong person, for wanting to leave. It makes no sense. It's only about control.
No one can ever make the cult happy. The cult does not respect anyone.

But if in the FluffyUniverse, what would it take to rehabilitate someone? Well, you'd do it by working with the person and being nice to them. You'd bolster their physical and emotional well being.

As I said, the thread op was facetious. In actuality, I'd want to do what I actually do as a manager. If their stats were low, why would you need to rehabilitate them? You'd actually find out if you were asking them to do things they could not possibly do. You'd see if they needed more training. You'd want to know if they really wanted to work there. If they did something bad, why did they do it and if it was something like child molestation, why even let them continue to work there?

I don't believe in things like the Mud Box Brigade and the RPF. I said that in the beginning of my opening thread. I do not believe in punishment. Particularly with people who (supposedly) wanted to be there. You don't punish. You treat people like adults. Obviously, the cult doesn't.

To land in Fluffy's RPF, you'd be living in an alternate reality because this was a fictional exercise. I was mainly having fun and making a point that you do not "rehabilitate" anyone by being a douche and making them run around a goddamn pole.

Heh! I was formulating a response to your OP while drifting down the thread and it would have been pretty much what you've said here.

Yes, absolutely, the very idea that the application of Scientology tech can "rehabilitate" someone is removed from reality. L Ron Hubbard's model for rehabilitation would be better described as "penance". The only trouble with your model is that I would never "graduate" - sounds like too much fun.

Is it true that Americans don't "get" satire?
 
You're wrong. It was not a suggestion. I do not believe in the rehabilitation of CofS staff or salvageability of the church and I have said so.
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Claire, you have been very bad.

You have restimulated the Scientologist in many an ex Scientologist. You have committed crimes of thought and obviously you are not anti antiKSW as you should be. Therefore, you are to be sent to the ESMB RPF as soon as it can be established. After all, this is a "deadly serious activity" and you should be reminded so.

We here at ESMB are all about free expression, well you know, as long as it Anti enough, and no joking, pamby wambies! We shall be unreasonable!

Who do you think you are?
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Claire, you have been very bad.

You have restimulated the Scientologist in many an ex Scientologist. You have committed crimes of thought and obviously you are not anti antiKSW as you should be. Therefore, you are to be sent to the ESMB RPF as soon as it can be established. After all, this is a "deadly serious activity" and you should be reminded so.

We here at ESMB are all about free expression, well you know, as long as it Anti enough, and no joking, pamby wambies! We shall be unreasonable!

Who do you think you are?

Oh, its not really that bad. Have you actually seen the ESMB RPF?

6604896387_54b94544b9.jpg
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
So, yes, this was a farce. It was a gentle light-filled parody. My main point was (and this is what I was ranting to John The WonderHusband about the other day) is how the HELL does the cult expect anyone to ever respond to any "rehabilitation" when all they do is break the person down, physically and emotionally?

Of course they don't want to build anyone up. It's all about intimidation and control. I get that. But one would think this would cause rank and file members who either witness or experience this, to say "Hey, adios."
Cognitive dissonance is a strange thing. On another thread, someone spoke about compartmentalization and that's probably part of the situation.

FreeThinker was quite right in his point that (at least I hope I got his point right) why do they even NEED rehabilitation? And you know, "rehabilitation" does imply that these people know what's best for you, they can decide you need something more, that you committed a crime and that this crime warrants "rehabilitation". This kind of reminds me of Communist reeducation camps.

In my world, however, if someone needed "rehabilitation" it would be that they needed a leg up. It wouldn't be because of crimes- either pursuant to criminal statutes or some imaginary "ethics crime". Plus the word "rehabilitation" is way too creepy even without the Scn connotations which inevitably affect all their terminology and which creep out ex members, skeptics, all kinds of non Scientologists.

So maybe that's the REAL problem. That it's an institutional setting. These people aren't giving career advice. They aren't giving out warm fuzzies. No, they are telling members that THEY control the person and they will send them here and there. I could mention other religious orders and that those are basically totalitarian, too, but thing is, those don't keep people from leaving and they've reformed many times in the past couple centuries, particularly since Vatican II.

So, no, as I mentioned, I don't believe in RPFing. I wouldn't anyway, but the real reason I don't is that I do not believe the SO should exist. I believe just having one at all opens the door to abuses, even if you tried not to have it be that way. And of course, the cult isn't trying to have it be abuse free, are they.

But, OTOH, I loves me an exercise in fantasy and whimsy. And in the FluffyVerse, there are pink armbands with sparkles, trips to Gstaad and to petting zoos, extra meals for the underweight, and catered dinners and rose petal sheets for visiting spouses and lovers.
 
Of course I believe CofS to be unsalvageable. But, as we've sometimes discussed, what would I get rid of or change if I thought otherwise?

The RPF. In fact, I would not even have a Sea Org.

But, what if I thought I could reform it instead of just whap it off the face of the earth?

Ok, so here's what the RPF should be. This is Fluffy's RPF.

It's for REHABILITATION, right? So if someone's sent there, you want them rehabilitated. That doesn't mean tormented or mistreated. How is that going to rehabilitate anyone?

So with that in mind, here are suggested changes, here's Fluffy's RPF:

RPFers will continue to wear armbands to individualize them from the other SOers. They shall be bright pink, spangled and have smiley faces on them.

Other staff will continue to behave differently toward RPFers than toward those in ordinary standing. RPFers will, therefore, be constantly be greated with handshakes, thumps on the back, hugs and words of encouragement. Coming up and handing the RPFer a flower is permissable, as long as said RPFer has no allergies to said flower.

RPFers will be often sent to places where they can destimulate. Mountain air at ski resorts and nature hikes will be possibly ideal for this. Loneliness will sometimes be addressed by days at petting zoos, skating rinks and other places.

The food will be different, too. It is RPF, after all. I'm sorry to say that we've made a decision to elminate refined sugar from their diets while they're on the RPF. The food will be balanced,nutritious, tasty and RPFers will be required to take vitamins, barring any medical condition contraindicating such. There will be milk, juice, filtered water but no pop. The food will be organic. Underweight people get an extra meal a day.

RPFers will be required to get a minimum of 7 hours sleep up to 8.5 hours. The only exception will be if they wake up early on their own.

Every day will start with meditation, gentle stretching and for those who want it, some gentle life repair style auditing. There will still be staff study but it will be less than 4 hours a day. Later in the day, visiting time for families. The times will be quite lengthy, particularly if the person has children. Provision will be made for romance and alone time with "2ds". Please notify us in advance if such needs to take place as we have to get the fixings for the candlelight dinners and extra bedding and the rose petals for the sheets.

If the person's really messed up, they go to the RPF's RPF. There will be medical exams to see if there's anything else going on with the person. Staff study will be suspended and the armbands will be lilac in color and scented. This is still on the drawing board as we've not completed this section yet.

Personnel will be interviewed frequently to see how they're doing and if they still want to be there. Even if they are not rehabilitated, they are not to be kept there if they don't want to be there.

If rehabilitation fails, the person will be gently reintroduced to non Scn society. The team member (that's what we call them now) will be encouraged to get in touch with family and friends. Trainfare will be purchased and severance pay will be sent with the person. Those who have no family or friends to put them up may receive additional severance.

Anyone wishing to quit the organization will have a decree of termination of membership in which other church members are encouraged to stay in touch with the person since good friends are not easy to find. The phrases "mutual parting of the ways" and "let us know if you need anything" with a toll free number must be included in said decree.

to hell with an rpf's rpf. i'm an amurrican. the sea org is a paramilitary formation. i prefer military formations to be under civilian control. current CoS polity is a melange of autocracy and timocracy. an rpf makes proper sense within the context of a well regulated paramilitary formation...but if you will not accept the stringent discipline of an rpf willingly... out.
 
So, yes, this was a farce. It was a gentle light-filled parody. My main point was (and this is what I was ranting to John The WonderHusband about the other day) is how the HELL does the cult expect anyone to ever respond to any "rehabilitation" when all they do is break the person down, physically and emotionally?

Of course they don't want to build anyone up. It's all about intimidation and control. I get that. But one would think this would cause rank and file members who either witness or experience this, to say "Hey, adios."
Cognitive dissonance is a strange thing. On another thread, someone spoke about compartmentalization and that's probably part of the situation.

FreeThinker was quite right in his point that (at least I hope I got his point right) why do they even NEED rehabilitation? And you know, "rehabilitation" does imply that these people know what's best for you, they can decide you need something more, that you committed a crime and that this crime warrants "rehabilitation". This kind of reminds me of Communist reeducation camps.

In my world, however, if someone needed "rehabilitation" it would be that they needed a leg up. It wouldn't be because of crimes- either pursuant to criminal statutes or some imaginary "ethics crime". Plus the word "rehabilitation" is way too creepy even without the Scn connotations which inevitably affect all their terminology and which creep out ex members, skeptics, all kinds of non Scientologists.

So maybe that's the REAL problem. That it's an institutional setting. These people aren't giving career advice. They aren't giving out warm fuzzies. No, they are telling members that THEY control the person and they will send them here and there. I could mention other religious orders and that those are basically totalitarian, too, but thing is, those don't keep people from leaving and they've reformed many times in the past couple centuries, particularly since Vatican II.

So, no, as I mentioned, I don't believe in RPFing. I wouldn't anyway, but the real reason I don't is that I do not believe the SO should exist. I believe just having one at all opens the door to abuses, even if you tried not to have it be that way. And of course, the cult isn't trying to have it be abuse free, are they.

But, OTOH, I loves me an exercise in fantasy and whimsy. And in the FluffyVerse, there are pink armbands with sparkles, trips to Gstaad and to petting zoos, extra meals for the underweight, and catered dinners and rose petal sheets for visiting spouses and lovers.

fluffy, if i am ever president and you hand one of my aides your resume you are likely to receive an appointment but it will not be in the department of defense
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
So, yes, this was a farce. It was a gentle light-filled parody. My main point was (and this is what I was ranting to John The WonderHusband about the other day) is how the HELL does the cult expect anyone to ever respond to any "rehabilitation" when all they do is break the person down, physically and emotionally?

Of course they don't want to build anyone up. It's all about intimidation and control. I get that. But one would think this would cause rank and file members who either witness or experience this, to say "Hey, adios."
Cognitive dissonance is a strange thing. On another thread, someone spoke about compartmentalization and that's probably part of the situation.

FreeThinker was quite right in his point that (at least I hope I got his point right) why do they even NEED rehabilitation? And you know, "rehabilitation" does imply that these people know what's best for you, they can decide you need something more, that you committed a crime and that this crime warrants "rehabilitation". This kind of reminds me of Communist reeducation camps.

In my world, however, if someone needed "rehabilitation" it would be that they needed a leg up. It wouldn't be because of crimes- either pursuant to criminal statutes or some imaginary "ethics crime". Plus the word "rehabilitation" is way too creepy even without the Scn connotations which inevitably affect all their terminology and which creep out ex members, skeptics, all kinds of non Scientologists.

So maybe that's the REAL problem. That it's an institutional setting. These people aren't giving career advice. They aren't giving out warm fuzzies. No, they are telling members that THEY control the person and they will send them here and there. I could mention other religious orders and that those are basically totalitarian, too, but thing is, those don't keep people from leaving and they've reformed many times in the past couple centuries, particularly since Vatican II.

So, no, as I mentioned, I don't believe in RPFing. I wouldn't anyway, but the real reason I don't is that I do not believe the SO should exist. I believe just having one at all opens the door to abuses, even if you tried not to have it be that way. And of course, the cult isn't trying to have it be abuse free, are they.

But, OTOH, I loves me an exercise in fantasy and whimsy. And in the FluffyVerse, there are pink armbands with sparkles, trips to Gstaad and to petting zoos, extra meals for the underweight, and catered dinners and rose petal sheets for visiting spouses and lovers.

Nice post, Claire. :thumbsup:

Seems I have a bit of explaining to do -

When I left Chicago in November, the Anons took over 3 hrs of video testimony of my time in the SO. The first of the set was already released. It's light, it's humorous. No worries.

The second is about my RPF experience, and as heavy as any testimony of abuse in Scn gets.

I did those vids to provide specific, personal testimony. Reliving/re-experiencing it to provide so much detail was painful. After the first view, I couldn't even watch the vid again - and I won't. The testimony is done, it's over.

Few people who were forced onto it and through it unwilling have spoken about it in detail because of the personal pain of doing so.

My RPF vid - the second vid - will be released in about a week. It was held back over the holidays because it's THAT heavy.

Claire, I'm just incapable of joking about it in this manner. Wish I could.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I do understand, Sweetie. The RPF is a horrible horrible place. I'm very sure it would suck even if they tried to make it nice, but it's abusive, hideous, hard on the body, hard on the mind, hard on relationships- and it's meant to be that way. Which is a massive betrayal.

Although I intended to be facetious, I wasn't joking about the RPF, exactly. I was making a point about what crazy shit it is, through the use of humor. I don't often write parodies of what goes on in Scn, but every now and again I'm moved to do so, as is Hoaxie and quite a few others. We do that to make a point about the hideousness of it.

I was talking to another ex- someone very well known and well respected in the critic's community. Awesome guy. He told me if there were a governmental raid, people would say they were there willingly. He said that's why that's not the cure all that I personally would have suggested and hoped for. (he told me this because I asked him about it.)

I know that the true believer brainwashed thing is terrible, but if I could, for those who want to be there, they would have hugs and great food and everything I mentioned. I would love to give them that. I would love, actually, for them to get the hell out of there, but if they wouldn't, then I would wish every warm and fuzzy that my fictional fluffyverse could possibly bestow. Because I wish them well. If I didn't, I would keep it to myself but if I had a massive brain fart and was that stupid as to post about it, I would have written a bunch of insults.

It's nice to be out, isn't it?

I love you to pieces, Gotta. Truly.
 
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