Reincarnation, Body Thetans and the threat of "Losing your eternity"

120 Degrees

Patron with Honors
I'd like to know how the threat of losing one's eternity works in recovering blown people and increasing reg amounts.

This is my highly simplified and summarized understanding of Scion philosophy:

From the first course to attaining Clear the focus is on eliminating the reactive mind that is both created in the past and being created in the moment. The OT levels are concerned with eliminating Body Thetans beginning with the obvious ones that are easily detected clinging to your body and continuing to the ones that more evasive, such as drugged, comatose, SP or just plain evil Bts. Ridding yourself of the reactive mind and BT's will result in a being who has power over MEST (and realizes that LRH is a/the god).

I'm very confused about Body Thetans and reincarnation and don't particularly desire to read more LRH. If thetans are reincarnated and the BTs are the result of the Xenu volcano incident are they not reincarnated in newly born Earth human being bodies or are they forever trapped as BTs due to the "incident"? By completing the OT levels is a practitioner vanquishing BTs to another type of existence, extinguishing them completely or do they just attach themselves to a new thetan? If you clear the planet aren't you really just dooming the alien BTs to never receive the "salvation" offered by LRH Tech or is it just salvation for human beings (even though the whole track is over millions of years and countless planets, including the home planets of the BTs, so that we're all related)?

This leads to my main question which has to do with people who blow and are brought back due to their fear of losing their eternity and those that donate increasing amounts in this same fear. I've read this many times and haven't read something that really explains the mechanism of how one could lose eternity if you believe in reincarnation. Couldn't you just come back next time and be a super duper Scilon? What exactly is the threat here? Is there a policy that disconnects you from reincarnation if you've started the tech and then stop or if don't dedicate yourself to the utmost or is the tech used to dispose of Bts now targeted at the blown person?

Thanks for any answers!
 
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GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd like to know how the threat of losing one's eternity works in recovering blown people and increasing reg amounts.

This is my highly simplified and summarized understanding of Scion philosophy:

From the first course to attaining Clear the focus is on eliminating the reactive mind that is both created in the past and being created in the moment. The OT levels are concerned with eliminating Body Thetans beginning with the obvious ones that are easily detected clinging to your body and continuing to the ones that more evasive, such as drugged, comatose, SP or just plain evil Bts. Ridding yourself of the reactive mind and BT's will result in a being who has power over MEST (and realizes that LRH is a/the god).

I'm very confused about Body Thetans and reincarnation and don't particularly desire to read more LRH. If thetans are reincarnated and the BTs are the result of the Xenu volcano incident are they not reincarnated in newly born Earth human being bodies or are they forever trapped as BTs due to the "incident"? By completing the OT levels is a practitioner vanquishing BTs to another type of existence, extinguishing them completely or do they just attach themselves to a new thetan? If you clear the planet aren't you really just dooming the alien BTs to never receive the "salvation" offered by LRH Tech or is it just salvation for human beings (even though the whole track is over millions of years and countless planets, including the home planets of the BTs, so that we're all related)?

This leads to my main question which has to do with people who blow and are brought back due to their fear of losing their eternity and those that donate increasing amounts in this same fear. I've read this many times and haven't read something that really explains the mechanism of how one could lose eternity if you believe in reincarnation. Couldn't you just come back next time and be a super duper Scilon? What exactly is the threat here? Is there a policy that disconnects you from reincarnation if you've started the tech and then stop or if don't dedicate yourself to the utmost or is the tech used to dispose of Bts now targeted at the blown person?

Thanks for any answers!

Gordon Gekko said it best in the original Wallstreet: "It's all about the money. The rest is just conversation." In otherwords, they will rub your face in whatever will keep you forking over the money. And since they really can't answer any of your questions anyways, they will just have you doing word clearing.

Pete
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
This leads to my main question which has to do with people who blow and are brought back due to their fear of losing their eternity and those that donate increasing amounts in this same fear. I've read this many times and haven't read something that really explains the mechanism of how one could lose eternity if you believe in reincarnation. Couldn't you just come back next time and be a super duper Scilon? What exactly is the threat here? Is there a policy that disconnects you from reincarnation if you've started the tech and then stop or if don't dedicate yourself to the utmost or is the tech used to dispose of Bts now targeted at the blown person?

Thanks for any answers!

I can't answer the BTs questions but your one about "losing your eternity" is a good one. I think the concept is that you will figure out who you were in past lives, and have to suffer the consequences of any "wrong" actions then. You are supposedly able to identify your own (past life when you are reincarnated) PC folders - not that this has ever been proven to happen.

It's kinda hard to explain. When you are part of a dedicated group your whole life becomes intimately tied to that group's purposes. And they include "saving the planet" and presumably, that done, it moves outward into space. It feels so stupid to write that! It's not something I have tried to put into words before.

To explain why it holds such fear for scientologists, I think the bottom line is that "eternity" boils down to this life, in reality, though that would not be stated. If you are thrown off "the Bridge" NOW, then you spend the rest of THIS life as a disgraced and degraded being. That is too much to face for a dedicated scientologist. If they were honest, it's not so much "eternity" as how to get their next level!

Scientology has "mysteries" and "confidential secrets" (BTs) that you only find out about, a step at a time, as you do the next level. There is always that sinking feeling in your stomach that if you left then you would never know the truth about the universe and WTF it's all about.

That's my take on it anyway.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
This leads to my main question which has to do with people who blow and are brought back due to their fear of losing their eternity and those that donate increasing amounts in this same fear. I've read this many times and haven't read something that really explains the mechanism of how one could lose eternity if you believe in reincarnation. Couldn't you just come back next time and be a super duper Scilon? What exactly is the threat here?

Let's say that you come back next lifetime and excitedly get into the auditing chair at your local Church and they discover that last lifetime you were Marty Rathbun. Ooh, ooh! Instant declare and expulsion for that lifetime, no Bridge for you!

Quite apart from the fact that after dropping the bod this lifetime, maybe with the help of a local implant station and maybe not, you suddenly realise how utterly suppressive you have been in harming the only hope for Man there has ever been, and you cave in very badly indeed because of the HUGE, HUGE damage you have caused to all of Mankind.

It's all tosh, of course, but that is how it could work, in the pliant minds of the faithful.

Paul
 

120 Degrees

Patron with Honors
To explain why it holds such fear for scientologists, I think the bottom line is that "eternity" boils down to this life, in reality, though that would not be stated. If you are thrown off "the Bridge" NOW, then you spend the rest of THIS life as a disgraced and degraded being. That is too much to face for a dedicated scientologist. If they were honest, it's not so much "eternity" as how to get their next level!

Scientology has "mysteries" and "confidential secrets" (BTs) that you only find out about, a step at a time, as you do the next level. There is always that sinking feeling in your stomach that if you left then you would never know the truth about the universe and WTF it's all about.

That's my take on it anyway.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for your input. This makes a great deal of sense to me and I can certainly understand how that would affect the faithful.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Scientology works upon and benefits by creating ANXIETY in its members.

There is NO ASPECT of Life, not on any level that will "exist forever". Hubbard's cycle of action, which is simply a rephrasing of the Hindu Trinity (Creation, Survival, Destruction) applies to all things - on ALL dynamics.

To get people all worked up about "their eternity", and "safeguarding their eternal future" is to fixate people on fighting against the flow.

ALL THINGS MUST PASS (George Harrison)

It's true.

Now if one wants to identify with a leaf on a tree, or on any impermanent thing, then of course, one WILL feel anxious - because while it might be great fun blossoming and living, it seems to be no fun dying.

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

Hubbard really digs into this self-pity when he gets people all worked up about "their eternity".

Simply, just be a part of the endless coming and going of all-that-is, and do it GRACEFULLY!
 
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Smilla

Ordinary Human
To me it's a matter of superstition. Scientology is riddled with superstion. SP's breaking your Mojo. Pulling stuff in. OT VIII's cause over traffic lights, and so on. Losing your eternity is a superstitious fear engendered by the cult.

That's all there is to it.

YMMV.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
To me it's a matter of superstition. Scientology is riddled with superstion. SP's breaking your Mojo. Pulling stuff in. OT VIII's cause over traffic lights, and so on. Losing your eternity is a superstitious fear engendered by the cult.

That's all there is to it.

YMMV.

Superstition, black magic, myths, fables, irrationality, hypnotic implants, fear, credulity...

Sometimes I can almost see why Scientology claims to be a religion.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
http://en.wikRe: Reincarnation, Body Thetans and the threat of "Losing your eternity"

Superstition, black magic, myths, fables, irrationality, hypnotic implants, fear, credulity...

Sometimes I can almost see why Scientology claims to be a religion.

Yeah, I see a Cargo Cult there too.

"Big powerful organisations have big fancy buildings; that means that if we get some big fancy buildings, we will become a big and powerful organisation." Lol.

"The term "cargo cult" has been used metaphorically to describe an attempt to recreate successful outcomes by replicating circumstances associated with those outcomes, although those circumstances are either unrelated to the causes of outcomes or insufficient to produce them by themselves. In the former case, this is an instance of the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
 

Liber8u

Patron
Re: http://en.wikRe: Reincarnation, Body Thetans and the threat of "Losing your etern

Yeah, I see a Cargo Cult there too.

"Big powerful organisations have big fancy buildings; that means that if we get some big fancy buildings, we will become a big and powerful organisation." Lol.

"The term "cargo cult" has been used metaphorically to describe an attempt to recreate successful outcomes by replicating circumstances associated with those outcomes, although those circumstances are either unrelated to the causes of outcomes or insufficient to produce them by themselves. In the former case, this is an instance of the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

I asked this question several times "How can I lose my eternity if I am an immortal being?" I was.....made to understand that I could continue to go down the dwindling spiral and go so down tone that I could become some inert object for eternity, like a rock on Mars or something. So going up the bridge was vital. I never believed that but I just kept quiet about it.
It's the same for the "Cause Over Life" on OTVII no one could show me reference as to what that would entail exactly.
 
I've thought about this, too. If I am not "saved" this lifetime by OT VIII or XV or whatever; and if I will then become a shoe or somebody's liver when I die, then how come I'm not a shoe or liver this lifetime? If I'm an immortal being, and I am able to trace back past lives on my time track, why would I suddenly (in the span of one life) become so totally degraded? Is it because I've contacted scientology and been audited to clear... a state never before attained? As for BTs, the tech implies that they go clear when being introduced to incident 1, then go off and pick up a body or whatever they want (lucky for them), but then, not all BTs are introduced to inc 1. They sometimes blow upon going through inc 2, and on NOTs they can blow with the What and Who. Author and former Cl 8, L. Kin, suggests that blown BTs (which are merely ridges) are freed to join their collective theta (wherever that may be). Makes sense to me.:duh:
 

Gib

Crusader
Scientology works upon and benefits by creating ANXIETY in its members.

There is NO ASPECT of Life, not on any level that will "exist forever". Hubbard's cycle of action, which is simply a rephrasing of the Hindu Trinity (Creation, Survival, Destruction) applies to all things - on ALL dynamics.

To get people all worked up about "their eternity", and "safeguarding their eternal future" is to fixate people on fighting against the flow.

ALL THINGS MUST PASS (George Harrison)

It's true.

Now if one wants to identify with a leaf on a tree, or on any impermanent thing, then of course, one WILL feel anxious - because while it might be great fun blossoming and living, it seems to be no fun dying.

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

Hubbard really digs into this self-pity when he gets people all worked up about "their eternity".

Simply, just be a part of the endless coming and going of all-that-is, and do it GRACEFULLY!

I suppose if Scientology wasn't trying to take over the world with it's cult thinking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

Everything would be fine.

Hey, let's clear the planet.

I came to the conclusion it is impossible in my lifetime. I ain't got enough money to do so, nor do I have enough potential in my doingness, beingness, and havingness to do so in my lifetime. So about a 1 year ago I realized this, and so retired from that game, on clearing the planet, and so I realized I could be OT and say NO to the next sevice or going in debt to the the next service. And thus I was relieved, the resposibility of the world came off my shoulders, and I experienced relief, like OMG. And then I got the Debbie Cook email, and I said to myself, why there are others who think the same. Boy was I :happydance:
 

Ho Tai

Patron Meritorious
Hm, Choice A: Spend eternity as a scientologist. Chose B: Spend eternity as a rock. Choice C: Spend eternity plastered with BTs. My preferences are C 99.9%, B 0.1%, a 0%.
 

dB8008'

Patron
This leads to my main question which has to do with people who blow and are brought back due to their fear of losing their eternity and those that donate increasing amounts in this same fear. I've read this many times and haven't read something that really explains the mechanism of how one could lose eternity if you believe in reincarnation. Couldn't you just come back next time and be a super duper Scilon? What exactly is the threat here? Is there a policy that disconnects you from reincarnation if you've started the tech and then stop or if don't dedicate yourself to the utmost or is the tech used to dispose of Bts now targeted at the blown person?

Thanks for any answers!

I'm strictly amateur, but here's what I've gotten from my reading over the years. If I've got this wrong, somebody please correct me.

In step with the increases in ability as you go up the bridge, there's an increase in understanding of just how doomed this universe is. The progression from "life is complicated" to "this universe was constructed as a trap by psychs to destroy life itself, and it's in it's terminal stage..." probably was a product of LRH explaining his own frailties after decades of research and processing, chasing his own immortality down the rabbit hole.

For a preclear, the threat is personal. You will probably lose your gains between lives. For a pre-OT who hasn't been all the way through the 'wall of fire', you'll be a victim of the toxic Teegeeack environment in your next life as the BTs in your next body drag your aggregate tone down past the survival line. For the proper OT, the threat becomes apocalyptic since this whole septic wreck of a universe is circling a drain so deep that even they will be overwhelmed in the end. The only way to save your eternal theta ass is to save the world, and the only way to do that is the church.

Whatever it takes to make you afraid (and to explain why you aren't Superman, yet.) is the reason you MUST STAY.

As 'ability' increases, responsibility and vulnerability increase. KRC, I suppose, with the wrong kind of control.
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Active Scientologists keep forgeting one important thing -- if you have not reached the highest OT level, which is presumably OT 15 (old OT levels) you cannot escape the implant stations, so you are wasting your money while you are going OT.

Even if you have reached OT 15, you still cannot escape the implant stations; just think about Xenu subjects who did not have the implants, and whose thetans were captured and hypnotized.

No matter what you do, you will end up at an implant station for the enternity to come. There is no Salvation, Xenu always wins.

In a manner of speaking, you will always reincarnate at an implant station. Your eternity is one gigantic implant station.
 
EP of doing the Bridge = "You mocked it all up" !!!

Let me repeat here, Ron made all this up. None of it is real.

Thank you! :)

(We need a finger snapping smiley!)
 
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