Remember KSW??

[Out-Ethics]

I don't believe that anyone can write a KR or attempt to fix any of the out-ethics, out-tech or injustice that is or have been going on and expect the Church to handle this. If one does then it's a trip to ethics, lower conditions, sec-checks and justice actions. If one wants to confront this then he better be prepared because that battle isn't going to be won. KSW has become a complete joke and only serves DM's command intention. The only way you are going to change the CoS is to get enough truth out to the public like this forum in convincing others not to become the Church's public and get current CoS public to stop supporting.

 

[Type4_PTS]

I just wanted to say that there is alot of crap out there and some people don't have the correct info.

Welcome to ESMB!

When you say "there is alot of crap out there" - what specifically are you referring to?

And when you say "some people don't have the correct info" - What is the "correct info" that "some" people are missing?

 

[Veda]

I don't believe that anyone can write a KR or attempt to fix any of the out-ethics, out-tech or injustice that is or have been going on and expect the Church to handle this. If one does then it's a trip to ethics, lower conditions, sec-checks and justice actions. If one wants to confront this then he better be prepared because that battle isn't going to be won. KSW has become a complete joke and only serves DM's command intention. The only way you are going to change the CoS is to get enough truth out to the public like this forum in convincing others not to become the Church's public and get current CoS public to stop supporting.

With a few exceptions, it was this way before Miscavige appeared on the scene. Frustrated people writing 'Knowledge Reports' with no results, or themselves being investigated, is not new.

Hubbard's "Ideal Scene" was not the "Ideal Scene" envisioned by most Scientologists, who really thought that policy WAS policy. It wasn't designed that way. There's policy then there's Policy then there's POLICY then there's (Hubbard's) Command Intention.

Now there's Miscavige, who inherited the same subject/system/machine, and has tightened the screws somewhat, perhaps due to his anal retentive micro-management tendencies, and perhaps partly due to his being privy to Hubbard's grand plan, and that the "plan" involves taking Scientology from BE (1950s) to DO (1960s, 70s) to HAVE (1980s), or from VERB (1950s, early 1960s) to NOUN (mid 1960s onward) - or from live subject to stone and stainless steel monument.

It may be useful to consult Hubbard's 1938 description of his (private) "real goal" as described shortly after his writing of the unpublished manuscript 'Excalibur'.

That quote can be found on page 72 of 'Parallels' or page 4 of 'Sly and Tall Edgy Lurks' in the bottom link of the linked post, or by entering either document, pressing 'control' and 'f' and typing in hard granite.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19183&postcount=1

 

[Out-Ethics]

With a few exceptions, it was this way before Miscavige appeared on the scene. Frustrated people writing 'Knowledge Reports' with no results, or themselves being investigated, is not new.

Hubbard's "Ideal Scene" was not the "Ideal Scene" envisioned by most Scientologists, who really thought that policy WAS policy. It wasn't designed that way. There's policy then there's Policy then there's POLICY then there's (Hubbard's) Command Intention.

Now there's Miscavige, who inherited the same subject/system/machine, and has tightened the screws somewhat, perhaps due to his anal retentive micro-management tendencies, and perhaps partly due to his being privy to Hubbard's grand plan, and that the "plan" involves taking Scientology from BE (1950s) to DO (1960s, 70s) to HAVE (1980s), or from VERB (1950s, early 1960s) to NOUN (mid 1960s onward) - or from live subject to stone and stainless steel monument.


It may be useful to consult Hubbard's 1938 description of his (private) "real goal" as described shortly after his writing of the unpublished manuscript 'Excalibur'.

That quote can be found on page 72 of 'Parallels' or page 4 of 'Sly and Tall Edgy Lurks' in the bottom link of the linked post, or by entering either document, pressing 'control' and 'f' and typing in hard granite.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=19183&postcount=1

Thanks for the link. I'm fully aware of Hubbard's outpointy history. Regardless of all the writings that has come out of how DM beat his staff or how Sea Org members being RPFed for years or endless donations or other horror stories etc; because of Hubbard's past I can never look at Scientology in the same light as when I first came in.

Even if the CoS oust DM and completely reform it would be very hard to consider doing any services. I read many ex-scientologists still believe in Scientology but I wonder how they rationalize Hubbard? Do they think these writings about him are not true? He seems to me that he was a brillant pyshotic maniac who had a silver tonugue and pen.

 

[Smilla]

Welcome. Scientology is great if you want someone to tell you what to think. Smilla.

 

[altruistichedonist]

I'm fully aware of Hubbard's outpointy history. Regardless of all the writings that has come out of how DM beat his staff or how Sea Org members being RPFed for years or endless donations or other horror stories etc; because of Hubbard's past I can never look at Scientology in the same light as when I first came in.

Even if the CoS oust DM and completely reform it would be very hard to consider doing any services. I read many ex-scientologists still believe in Scientology but I wonder how they rationalize Hubbard? Do they think these writings about him are not true? He seems to me that he was a brillant pyshotic maniac who had a silver tonugue and pen.

A BIG WELCOME TO YOU.

This is pretty much the same conclusion I came to when I left in 96. After I'd read Messiah or Madman and Bare Faced Messiah, there was no turning back.
What could I do ? Write a KR that LRH's life is one big fat lie. All those little booklets decribing how brilliant a life he led. The FOUNDATION of my belief that Scientology was the right thing to do crumbled. What action would have been taken had I done that ? That's blatantly obvious in reading the experiences of others on this site.

Which comes to .... Tell us your experience with Scientology.

PLEASE !

 

[Out-Ethics]

A BIG WELCOME TO YOU.

This is pretty much the same conclusion I came to when I left in 96. After I'd read Messiah or Madman and Bare Faced Messiah, there was no turning back.
What could I do ? Write a KR that LRH's life is one big fat lie. All those little booklets decribing how brilliant a life he led. The FOUNDATION of my belief that Scientology was the right thing to do crumbled. What action would have been taken had I done that ? That's blatantly obvious in reading the experiences of others on this site.

Which comes to .... Tell us your experience with Scientology.

PLEASE !

I would like to but now is not the time. Hopefully soon.

 

[GreyWolf]

So, DulltheAxe, are you going to continue in this? I like a good argument now and then.

 

[A.K. Myers]

This was most likely his "blow to the enemy" from his liability
formula. The sad truth is that the wording of the formula
actually includes the word "effective."

Using KSW to make the exes wrong hardly fits that bill.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

What I also find interesting...in my PM box. After reading this thread, this thread really makes me wonder.

What org are you near that has been donating to the ideal org for years now??

I gathering my own data.

I can't answer that sorry. If I knew you, it would be different. At least till disconnection is stopped.

I hear you. At my org it's been going on for at least 3 years. That's why I ask.

Maybe a hint??

I'm in Vegas BTW.

 

[Stephanie]

You can KR until your blue in the face, if RTC headed by DR. EVIL doesn't want to do anything about it, so be it.

 

[Zinjifar]

Ron called her 'Bessie'

Zinj

 

[dulltheaxe]

Did you have any wins?

Okay, so obviously this is a sore subject. I'm not denying that there is current major outpoints with the current CoS management. What I think is important is "what have you gotten out of the Tech for yourself?" Have you improved anything in your life from it? If you were born in it, you really have nothing to compare it to.. right? But if you came into it when you were older, what have you improved with it?

Is it the MGMT or the Tech that you resist?

 

[Type4_PTS]

Welcome to ESMB!

When you say "there is alot of crap out there" - what specifically are you referring to?

And when you say "some people don't have the correct info" - What is the "correct info" that "some" people are missing?

Dulltheaxe,
Your original post was very vague with lots of generalities.

I would love to see your answer to the above questions.

 

[Good twin]

DTA. It would be appropriate for you to introduce yourself and share you own views as a starting point. Most of us have posted what our position is concerning Scn. You are free to read our posts to understand our views.

Seriously, Good luck and welcome to ESMB.

 

[altruistichedonist]

Okay, so obviously this is a sore subject. I'm not denying that there is current major outpoints with the current CoS management. What I think is important is "what have you gotten out of the Tech for yourself?" Have you improved anything in your life from it? If you were born in it, you really have nothing to compare it to.. right? But if you came into it when you were older, what have you improved with it?

Is it the MGMT or the Tech that you resist?

Well if what you resist, persists. It's gotta be BOTH.

On paper it appears to work but the reality of Miscavigology is simply it doesn't. There's been many workable spiritual health tech breakthroughs in the last 40 years that have nothing to do with Scientology. Find them yourself. "Earn" your comm lines outside of Scientology. Try them yourself.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Okay, so obviously this is a sore subject. I'm not denying that there is current major outpoints with the current CoS management.

Ok, so you're not denying that.. That's good! - But denying it is PR policy! - You just do NOT give an inch to SP's like that! They'll grab yer' whole arm and have yer' ass! - ALLWAYS ATTACK!!! - TREAT EVERY SQIRMISH AS A WAR! - NEVER DEFEND!

What I think is important is "what have you gotten out of the Tech for yourself?"

Is that important? - Hmm.. I didn't get shit out of the tech. Some mental damage perhaps..

Have you improved anything in your life from it?

Not a thing! - Total waste of time.. Supression of my self determinism and goals for decades.. In fact, the exact opposite of spiritual freedom.

If you were born in it, you really have nothing to compare it to.. right?

What is this stupid question? - I wasn't born in it, but I can recognize a stupid question when I see one!

Hey! If you were born in it! - The above question is stupid!

But if you came into it when you were older, what have you improved with it?

Scientology has not improved a damned thing! - Overt product José! - Coming into it when older has no connection or relevance to the lack of improving antything at all!

Is it the MGMT or the Tech that you resist?

MGMT or Tech, who cares? - You don't resist cockroaches when you spray 'em with pesticides. You simply get rid of 'em without sorrow.. Clean 'em up with a wacuumcleaner and forget 'em...

 

[GreyWolf]

Okay, so obviously this is a sore subject. I'm not denying that there is current major outpoints with the current CoS management. What I think is important is "what have you gotten out of the Tech for yourself?" Have you improved anything in your life from it? If you were born in it, you really have nothing to compare it to.. right? But if you came into it when you were older, what have you improved with it?

Is it the MGMT or the Tech that you resist?

Here is the 411 from my perspective. I had more so called OT abilities before I went into the church than after a while of being invalidated after I joined up. Slowly, and I mean ever so slowly, I have been regaining them. I will never, however regain the time that I wasted with Scn.

 

[Good twin]

Here is the 411 from my perspective. I had more so called OT abilities before I went into the church than after a while of being invalidated after I joined up. Slowly, and I mean ever so slowly, I have been regaining them. I will never, however regain the time that I wasted with Scn.

Amen GreyWolf. This thread has proven valuable after all. A much needed rant was had by all. The title was just plain offensive though. Remember KSW? Sheesh.... after over thirty years of standard mind control, how could we forget? :confused2:

 

[Balthasar]

In looking over this thread again - this is DulltheAxe's first post. What a way to join a group.

I am not in disagreement with DulltheAxe's post. He is new on the board and has already an opinion to express... I am also new, have observed similar things on this board. Also I believe that I have been able to duplicated his post so far. For example, when he says "lot of crap out there", he might mean simply "human emotions & reactions". By "missing information", he probably referred to the symptom which arises when people posting on the board who never were staff, public nor tried to approach the subject in an objective manner.
Most of you guys I like very much and some of you are brilliant. However there is a lot of complaining going on.
Honestly, I am completely unreasonable about Out Ruds or even Out Grades.
However blunt or stupid it might sound... if you are upset about the Church, DM, Mngmt or whatever - you need to get your Ruds flown. That's as simple as that. Then you do your grades and so on.
BTW, KR's did never work. LRH implemented these so that "good staff and public" would get charge of their little problems. And to grab somebodies balls if ever indicated (of course ha-ha!)
Anyway, much of personal integrity or original code of honour got lost (or has never been there) within current staff and public.
You always have a choice, there is always the possibility to say NO. You just don't accept crap from your senior, that's it. "But then I risk my position, my eternity, get busted, RPF'd!!!" And? so what!
Many SO staff went through the whole cycle when I was on staff in the beginning of the 80's. Simply refuse to comply with off policy orders! Try it out if you still have the possibility - it works wonders! 4 guys scream at you but you just feel great!!! Just REFUSE to do things which you don't feel good about it, that's it man and that's really it!
Then of course you have to sort out your case and do the whole lot. And if you have done it all - there is no charge left. You just look back and think how fun it was especially the RPF with the crap food.
Bloody hell - do I need a session now !!!