Remembering a mighty hunter who became one with the animal kingdom to honor us all

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Remembering a mighty hunter who became one with the animal kingdom to honor us all

This is Scott van Zyl, a South African hunter who really knew how to show off a customer’s attributes, like Mr. Lion here and his magnificent gums.

Scott is reminding us in this photo how important it is to spend the time to appreciate those formidable choppers of the king of the big cats. Because [...]

ScottVanZyl-e1553900754862.jpg



This is Scott van Zyl, a South[.......]

Continue reading...
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
There is a new post up at the Underground Bunker

Remembering a mighty hunter who became one with the animal kingdom to honor us all

This is Scott van Zyl, a South African hunter who really knew how to show off a customer’s attributes, like Mr. Lion here and his magnificent gums.

Scott is reminding us in this photo how important it is to spend the time to appreciate those formidable choppers of the king of the big cats. Because [...]

ScottVanZyl-e1553900754862.jpg



This is Scott van Zyl, a South[.......]

Continue reading...
Commiserations to his family and friends, but I'm shedding no tears for Mr. van Zyl, who seemed to enjoy sending high-velocity projectiles through the vital organs of wild animals from a safe distance. What sort of person can do that simply for enjoyment?

As a matter of fact I'm feeling a bit of a hypocrite. I swatted a fly in my kitchen this morning, and even doing that made me feel a bit guilty. My justification was that I didn't want it crawling over food I might want to eat later. What was van Zyl's excuse?
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
From the viewpoint of the Africans, lions are dangerous vermin. Hunting brings in thousands of dollars per animal. If there wasn't any money to be made, the lions, elephants, etc would be exterminated by the Africans.

https://www.africanskyhunting.co.za/african-hunting-packages.html
I don't know how you can generalise like that and say 'from the viewpoint of the Africans'. Do you mean each and every African? Southern Africans? Egyptians? I'm sure there are millions of Africans both black and white who don't regard Lions as 'dangerous vermin' and are as appalled as I am at the scale of the slaughter of the wildlife both for sport and illegal trading in body parts that takes place on that benighted continent.


Instead of killing them, how about this approach? These guys really do have some cohones!

 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I don't know how you can generalise like that and say 'from the viewpoint of the Africans'. Do you mean each and every African? Southern Africans? Egyptians? I'm sure there are millions of Africans both black and white who don't regard Lions as 'dangerous vermin' and are as appalled as I am at the scale of the slaughter of the wildlife both for sport and illegal trading in body parts that takes place on that benighted continent.


Instead of killing them, how about this approach? These guys really do have some cohones!

I'm talking about the viewpoint of the Africans who have to live in proximity with these animals. The Africans whose farms the elephants regard as a salad bar, and whose children the lions and leopards regard as being part of the food chain. You do realize that Africa does not have 30 foot high walls separating the animals from the people?

Africa's population is rapidly expanding. This means that they need more farm land. This results in them encroaching on land that elephants and lions and such currently reside. Those Africans will either displace and kill the wildlife which wants to eat their crops (and them), or they will die.

The ONLY way the wildlife survives, is if somebody gets to make money off of them. This means hunting safaris. Hunters are willing to pay thousands for hunting licenses. Read the link on my earlier post for the list of safari prices. I'm talking about maybe $10-20 thousand per person for a week's trip.
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
at the scale of the slaughter of the wildlife both for sport and illegal trading in body parts that takes place on that benighted continent.

Hunting fees also pay for the game wardens who go after poachers.

One additional revenue source would be to grant "poacher hunting licenses" to private individuals. I'm sure there are people who would enjoy being able to hunt poachers. Be able to mount their heads above the fireplace.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I'm talking about the viewpoint of the Africans who have to live in proximity with these animals. The Africans whose farms the elephants regard as a salad bar, and whose children the lions and leopards regard as being part of the food chain. You do realize that Africa does not have 30 foot high walls separating the animals from the people?

Africa's population is rapidly expanding. This means that they need more farm land. This results in them encroaching on land that elephants and lions and such currently reside. Those Africans will either displace and kill the wildlife which wants to eat their crops (and them), or they will die.

The ONLY way the wildlife survives, is if somebody gets to make money off of them. This means hunting safaris. Hunters are willing to pay thousands for hunting licenses. Read the link on my earlier post for the list of safari prices. I'm talking about maybe $10-20 thousand per person for a week's trip.
It's too bad if elephants see crops as a salad bar. Perhaps some africans should simply stop producing millions of children that they cannot feed. Hunting safaris are NOT the only way money is made from the wildlife by the way, people will pay big bucks just to stay at a swanky camp and go into the bush and simply see the wild animals in their natural surrounding (such as there is left). Yes Enthetan, I do realise there aren't thirty feet high walls separating the humans from the animals, I lived in South Africa for several years and came into contact with plenty of wildlife I can assure you.

All this ties in with what fucking humans have done to this planet generally. It just depresses me.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Hunting fees also pay for the game wardens who go after poachers.

One additional revenue source would be to grant "poacher hunting licenses" to private individuals. I'm sure there are people who would enjoy being able to hunt poachers. Be able to mount their heads above the fireplace.
Yes, I'm up for that. Seriously though, as far as I'm aware, humans are the only species on this planet that likes to hunt, maim and kill other animals just for fun. People who do that have to be psychotic - it has to take a total lack of empathy to be able to do that I reckon.
 

freethinker

Sponsor
But then there is Dr. Walter J. Palmer, who killed the wrong lion by luring him out of his protected habitat.


American Hunter Killed Cecil, Beloved Lion Who Was Lured Out of His Sanctuary

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/...killing-cecil-a-beloved-lion-in-zimbabwe.html

29cecil-web-jumbo.jpg


Zimbabwean officials said that Dr. Walter J. Palmer, an American hunter known for killing big game with a bow and arrow, killed Cecil, and was being sought on poaching charges.

Johnny Rodrigues of the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force said Cecil was lured out of a protected game preserve one night in early July by a hunting party that tied a dead animal to a car.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Yes, I'm up for that. Seriously though, as far as I'm aware, humans are the only species on this planet that likes to hunt, maim and kill other animals just for fun. People who do that have to be psychotic - it has to take a total lack of empathy to be able to do that I reckon.
There is one major fact of life, true everywhere, but especially so in Africa: if the ruling class can make money off of something, then that thing will tend to be much more protected than if they derive no benefit from it.

Hunting fees constitute a major chunk of change to the African areas where there is wildlife that needs protecting. If having wildlife around is lucrative enough to the people in charge, then they will act to protect it, even at a cost to the expanding human population.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I understand that some people are hunters for getting food purposes..this is how life is...

But Sport hunting is something that I can't understand and that describes the most vile side of humans..killing to feel the thrill and for the pride of displaying the trophee in your countryside home living room...

I know of hunters who love the sport of finding the animal , getting as much as close they can without disturbing , but they are thrilled they found it and can enjoy to observe the beast, usually one of the biggest and rare to be seen. These are animal kingdom lover...This I can understand. I did that multiple times and was thrilled (I must have retained a bit of testosterone..lol)

An animal doesn't kill for fun or pleasure (sport) ..they kill for getting food or for safety\survival purposes. Also, apart from the casts issues, they don't use other animals as slaves....

As a proof that the higher the IQ , it doesn't mean more intelligence.
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
When I was a teenager visiting my uncle in Texas, He led me out on his ranch.
I used his 12 gauge shot gun (Remington 1100) to shot some birds.
It was for sport, but not entirely.
However he only allowed it for certain types of birds on his ranch.
He would point them out to me. "Yes, that one." "No, not that one."
I obeyed his directions on type of bird to shoot.
 

Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
Commiserations to his family and friends, but I'm shedding no tears for Mr. van Zyl, who seemed to enjoy sending high-velocity projectiles through the vital organs of wild animals from a safe distance. What sort of person can do that simply for enjoyment?

As a matter of fact I'm feeling a bit of a hypocrite. I swatted a fly in my kitchen this morning, and even doing that made me feel a bit guilty. My justification was that I didn't want it crawling over food I might want to eat later. What was van Zyl's excuse?
Here are some photos of two of the kind of people that kill animals for enjoyment (their father thinks it helps make America GREAT!):

300x300
trumps-hunting.jpg
150729-stern-Eric-trump-Kudu-tease_bnblpg
 
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The_Fixer

Class Clown
From the viewpoint of the Africans, lions are dangerous vermin. Hunting brings in thousands of dollars per animal. If there wasn't any money to be made, the lions, elephants, etc would be exterminated by the Africans.

https://www.africanskyhunting.co.za/african-hunting-packages.html
There was also a story getting around about how the Masi warriors have turned from hunting lions to adopting them and seeing to their welfare.

They take photos and show tourists how things are going for a fee now and they have found it brings bigger benefits to them as a group.

Sorry, but I can't find links at this time about it. But it was on some TV show here a little while back.
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
It's too bad if elephants see crops as a salad bar. Perhaps some africans should simply stop producing millions of children that they cannot feed. Hunting safaris are NOT the only way money is made from the wildlife by the way, people will pay big bucks just to stay at a swanky camp and go into the bush and simply see the wild animals in their natural surrounding (such as there is left). Yes Enthetan, I do realise there aren't thirty feet high walls separating the humans from the animals, I lived in South Africa for several years and came into contact with plenty of wildlife I can assure you.

All this ties in with what fucking humans have done to this planet generally. It just depresses me.
I don't feel we really have the right to dictate to another country (especially a third world one) how they run their survival. The black Africans usually have large families so some of the kids will become adults. Child mortality is still huge over there and AIDS has really added to that problem as well.

Their situation is completely different to ours. Being third world, much of the population is uneducated and things operate on a subsistence level.
If elephants take their grain and lions take their stock, their whole survival is threatened. They have a right to feed and protect their families too. If a hunter gives their community money to help them out, it's money they never had and maybe never would have. It can buy medicine and stuff they can't grow or hunt for. Hunting and basic agriculture is first nature to them, so our sense of morality about animal welfare would seem as alien as scientology or that "Real Housewives" show would be to them.

There are people from our parts of the world that are over there educating them in ways to co-exist with the wildlife without having to harm them. It will take some time to gain effective ground, early results are already proving encouraging.

It is also a little different in first world countries where we have already wiped out most of the indigenous wildlife and then point fingers at the others. We can sit back smugly and tell them to starve whilst we feast on what we bought down at the shops. We've move on from being a bunch of little tribes. More luck to us.

Things are slowly changing in Africa, still a very long way to go. If they don't find ways to ensure political stability, not much can change. Meantime they just do what they can.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
@Little David ... never let it be said that you ever miss an opportunity to stick the knife in and give it a twist.

FWIW ... I hope that every recreational hunter (and that very much includes Trump and his sons) gets to feel the full force of karma in some way or another. There is something very wrong with anyone who could do what they apparently so enjoy doing for 'sport'.


That said, we have a very long way to go in many so called first world countries in regards to intensive animal farming/cruelty in general.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I don't feel we really have the right to dictate to another country (especially a third world one) how they run their survival. The black Africans usually have large families so some of the kids will become adults. Child mortality is still huge over there and AIDS has really added to that problem as well.

Their situation is completely different to ours. Being third world, much of the population is uneducated and things operate on a subsistence level.
If elephants take their grain and lions take their stock, their whole survival is threatened. They have a right to feed and protect their families too. If a hunter gives their community money to help them out, it's money they never had and maybe never would have. It can buy medicine and stuff they can't grow or hunt for. Hunting and basic agriculture is first nature to them, so our sense of morality about animal welfare would seem as alien as scientology or that "Real Housewives" show would be to them.

There are people from our parts of the world that are over there educating them in ways to co-exist with the wildlife without having to harm them. It will take some time to gain effective ground, early results are already proving encouraging.

It is also a little different in first world countries where we have already wiped out most of the indigenous wildlife and then point fingers at the others. We can sit back smugly and tell them to starve whilst we feast on what we bought down at the shops. We've move on from being a bunch of little tribes. More luck to us.

Things are slowly changing in Africa, still a very long way to go. If they don't find ways to ensure political stability, not much can change. Meantime they just do what they can.
I'm not dictating anything to anybody, I'm just reacting to the constant images on my TV screen of infants that look like skeletons covered with skin. My thought is always the same - why on earth bring a child into the world if it is going to suffer this way?

Perhaps if there wasn't so many mouths to feed there would be more food for those that need it.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I'm not dictating anything to anybody, I'm just reacting to the constant images on my TV screen of infants that look like skeletons covered with skin. My thought is always the same - why on earth bring a child into the world if it is going to suffer this way?

Perhaps if there wasn't so many mouths to feed there would be more food for those that need it.
In a world without social security, or pension funds, you have lots of kids in order to ensure you have at least a few survive to adulthood, to take care of you when old.

Maybe the solution to below-replacement birth rates in the West, would be to abolish social security, and in place of it give old people a share of the tax revenue from their kids.
 
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