Repayment/refund question

Friend

Patron
Hello,
First of all $cientology doesn't want you to know about the 3 months period.
I wonder was the auditing a package deal? Was it debited out of your account as a donation? The money as I know you put on your account for future courses and auditing are not donated yet. It hasn't been assigned to any classification of service. The unused money; was that put back on your account. Please request a copy of your account and see if the money went back to it.
If you have an account I believe you should have access to the status; like a bank account. Do TR 4 and persist to get it, otherwise us a government mediator.
If you finished that specific service; then the money should go back to the account. Otherwise since they couldn't estimate 100% the price for that specific service, then they are taking more than needed. It's call greed if they don't put unused auditing time back on account. Were they asking you to buy bird shit on top of the service and debited that out too; I mean services not needed? I know in my case, they were very eager to use up the whole thing (all paid $$$ service and not to put aside on my account for future necessary and for better use) even though I finished on auditing process. They do it slickly. They know that you sooner or later need more money, because they also put you in situations and mess with you.
Once an academy student needed a P.C. so he, (Allan Blake), could learn how to audit Happiness Rundown and become certified in Happiness Rundown.
I was chosen and we sat next to the Academy. The supervisor and other staff said I didn’t need to pay for it; I only needed to buy a booklet for Allan Blake’s training to fill in as he went. I accepted and I took it as a break from the Academy. Allan Blake word cleared one word from the booklet, but I had hard time to understand it. It was done only in English; I got an idea what it meant but it wasn’t mine.
After that scenario, I was put back in the Academy and the cycle was ended.
Later, other staff that worked with registrar came up to me and said that I had started the “Happiness Rundown” and that I had to finish it. They said if you start something you have to finish it. I had such a hard time with them and I was abused into give them my money. It didn’t matter that I said I never started the fad process of Happiness Rundown. I was staked inside the org and to my job. They never gave up on me to extract the money. I finally gave in and I paid for 1 ½ or 2 intensives, I believe.
I was told that it would be all. I never made it through and they harassed me again until I gave in. I finally gave more money. If, you can’t get your money, why should I pay for more intensives than promised? Besides, I believe they broke their policy on me, just to find money to pay for the Org and staff pay. It was all for them. I am sure they promise too much and they know they can extract more later.
If they call it donation why have a variable; that some pay more than others? Why don’t everybody pay equal amount? All auditors don’t deliver exact the same in time; some are slow; some of them faster; some don’t have the same experience; some are walking around the lion fence; some are inside the lion fence. All the auditors are a variable. I needed more time in auditing sessions because I was studying too steep a gradient; I was not allowed to have native language connection, inadequate existence of materials. I was never authorized to make my own decisions in all my matters; my native languages were never respected. Now you know where I came from. I wish long time ago, I had today’s wisdom.
I still remember a lot from my mid 80-ties when I was young and very innocent.

1. Get a copy of each account statement from respective Org., and get it without justification.
2. Check your account and see where the money is. Hopefully you can see it on the account.
3. Request the money and use the account statements and let them know this is an account and that the services have not been debited out yet and that is your money.
4. Send the request certified mail; so you have proof that you were asking for that money. You might have to write more than one time.
5. If you don't get the account statement, get a government mediator. (Most lawyers don't seem to understand $cientology and it can be costly) Get the mediator to work in behalf of you and use your logic and work with them and tell them you never signed any document that you got all your money from your account and that they owe you that certain amount.
Remember if other people have gotten their money back; then why can they favor some and not all? Everyone should be equally treated.
6. Don't sign any waiver. My government mediator helped me to have my checks re-issued without the print in the back. I only signed to the $cientology that I have gotten all money back from my account. No more; no less.
I did that long time ago. I hope this works now. I still have copy of my account. I have proof that at least existed.
I was unable to return the books and tapes which I didn't buy on my volition. I debited them out and took them out before I went to LA. I was so afraid that the $cientology would keep the money I gave them since I didn't have a proof that my books were not debited out. I had no space at home to keep them; even though they wanted me to buy books I didn't have use for a very long, long time. The 3 months period just passed when I came back from my trip to L.A. I got stuck with the whole library.
If I bought all library tapes, did I buy the content also on the tape? If, so I should have the right to change them to another format, like a CD. Or did I only buy the plastic material in the cassette? That is called “usury”. What did I actually buy? I still have books and tapes never touched and with the box and plastic cover.
I can't recall how many years I had the whole library paid for and not debited out until I felt a threat to lose that money. I didn’t trust them since I was subjected to abuse. It was never an immediate exchange.
When I were in process of my routing form I put on one page the whole sum of money that I wanted back, actually the whole sum. That was my terminating reason. I also wrote them before they got taxexempt and to IRS, but it didn't work. They reasoned that the time of last service had lapsed more than three months.
Now, what about if you finally came to an end phenomena after spending all that money that you were duped? You need to have time to check other sources to find out were you really duped and that takes time.
You know, as soon you complain you are in big trouble and they handle you to believe the opposite. That's how they gain time.
To be a foreign in another country without anybody to help you, it's hard, especially when you had to study English without a connection to your native language. To steep a gradient; and not the right study materials available. Why learn any tech that you are not allowed to use? On top of that I had to heal my body of chest pain and ulcer by connecting the words to my native language. It worked. I did that on my own while I was having hard time with the Org. and I woke up to realize I needed to get out and to survive.
I didn't want to pay for something that would gradually destroy me. My voice was never heard and I tried so hard, just to be put down and misdirected and silenced.
I hope this will help. Good luck! Let me know how it goes.
Please quote if there is anything I missed or something I should know.
I would like other success stories for money refunded.

If you have unused hours in different orgs; add them up and you might have one intensive.
 

Friend

Patron
I was quoted "HCO PL Refunds Addition", when told that I could not be repaid unused hours of auditing on account unless my last session was within 3 months ago.

I haven't seen this PL but I don't think it even matters because I am not allowed to receive auditing hours I have left on account anyway. If service is paid for but delivery of said service is refused, the logical thinking is that the balance of services would be refunded.

I'd love to find out if anyone has gotten a repayment of auditing hours left of an intensive, or gotten a refund of a course that was incomplete (never finished).

I think that is bullshit! If they can save the unused money beyond 3 months for another service purpose then you should be able to get unused service money back.
What about if you sell the 3 hours to someone else. If you can't then the Org should.
Did you sign anything when you took that auditing service that the unused portion is forsaken? What is happening to all the rest of the people who take such auditing service? Does their money go back to their account?
Get a copy of your account and see what happened; it's yours. Money kept for potential future services.
The money you gave were yours to start with. Why should they take over your hard earned money that you sweated for an unrealistic exchange?
Remember for you to pay that money, your family sucrificed, since you short changed your time with them. How many hours do you have to work if you earn $11.00 to $14.00 per hours that the average hour income in the majority of people earn? Do you think you can afford proper housing? I guess many must live in a car or van or lesh onto their family.
Where is your saying about it?
Sorry I just got a little angry!
 

Sis O' Sign

Patron with Honors
I think that is bullshit! If they can save the unused money beyond 3 months for another service purpose then you should be able to get unused service money back.

Did you sign anything when you took that auditing service that the unused portion is forsaken? What is happening to all the rest of the people who take such auditing service? Does their money go back to their account?
Get a copy of your account and see what happened; it's yours. Money kept for potential future services.

...

Sorry I just got a little angry!

Hi Friend,

thanks for your responses! I do understand if you get angry about the subject. I am an infinitely patient angel :eyeroll: but I also began to lose temper...

This is what I would love to find out too, what happens with the money left unused from an intensive (or more, if someone has paid more intensive and only used a few hours from them...)

Is that legal for CoS (or any organization)
1. to have a person pay for many hours of services when he actually would need 1 hour or 2 at the moment,
2. debit all those many hours from the person's account,
3. and then keep the rest of the money, for which actually no service was given???

I might not understand something in this... :confused2:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Helping someone get money back from the C o $ is one of those things near and dear to my heart.

I have read almost everything online posted about it - the truth and the BS.

Both repayment and refunds can be done - and sometimes money can be gotten from the IAS.

The first thing a person needs to know is when it comes to these kind of cycles they are going to ignore their own policy and they will flat out lie to you.

It takes polite but very very firm persistence to get your money.

I can'r always read all of every thread but I do respond to PMs - if someone wants help I'll try by PM or by phone.

I have been involved in more than a few of these things, am are currently helping 2 families get there money back.

My joy is seeing those bastards give you your money !
 

Sis O' Sign

Patron with Honors
Thanks Toady, I'm sending you a PM.

Like your Liability Formula... This was the last straw for me, when I said "That's it!": when an SO girl ordered a few of us on Facebook to disconnect from a very lovely girl, a friend and artist colleague of mine, for "she got SP declared" - but my friend didn't get any such paper... Her High Crimes were to disagree with the coerced abortions in the Sea Org and with the illegal Ideal Org etc fund raisings.

Okay, this was off-topic.
 

RepaymentAngel

New Member
Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I have written over 20 pages describing the details that I went through in order to get a repayment from the Church of Scientology over the course of 10 months.

As soon as I have permission from the site to post my story you should check it out!
 

Motti

Patron
I know someone who is going through a similar thing with the same stops. I'm interested in know how this comes out... Also, another new ex I know has over $30K on account at FSO with years of statements from FSO showing the same amount due to inactivity. After responding poorly to the new basics push and indicating displeasure with DM, the 2 most recent statements show just a few dollars in the account with no record of what happened to the $. Has anyone heard of this? Is it now a common tactic?

The same happened to me TWICE at Flag. They deducted money from my account without permission. Both times it took me months to get them to return the money to the account. On another website I read that this embezzlement has become common practice with staff members hammered and pounded to meet their book sales stats or no-exchange donations stats. In desperation, and not wanting to be hanged in ethics for their downstats, they take money from dormant parishioners' accounts. Be careful. The criminal management turns staff members into criminals.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
The same happened to me TWICE at Flag. They deducted money from my account without permission. Both times it took me months to get them to return the money to the account. On another website I read that this embezzlement has become common practice with staff members hammered and pounded to meet their book sales stats or no-exchange donations stats. In desperation, and not wanting to be hanged in ethics for their downstats, they take money from dormant parishioners' accounts. Be careful. The criminal management turns staff members into criminals.

Yep. I know plenty of people who had had their account looted for $30K to $45K for book cycles.

Bottom line, they can either produce your signature authorizing those &3500 to $5,000 book "cycles" or they HAVE to put your back on your account.

What is being counted on is inactive people not reading their statements or being able to shame people into agreeing to "donate" books to ( whatever).

Hell, 3 different times I had boxes and boxes of books show up at my door only to find out even more had been sent to God knows where.

Bless, their hearts, that started me getting my money back...... and led me to helping other people get their money back. too.

I want to know for certain I am at least somewhat responsible for helping people get over $1,000,000 from Flag. Yep, I want to see at least a million a year that I have at least a finger in getting pulled out of there.

Am I pissed? Yeah. Still. LOL !
 

Karen#1

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yep. I know plenty of people who had had their account looted for $30K to $45K for book cycles.

Bottom line, they can either produce your signature authorizing those &3500 to $5,000 book "cycles" or they HAVE to put your back on your account.

What is being counted on is inactive people not reading their statements or being able to shame people into agreeing to "donate" books to ( whatever).

Hell, 3 different times I had boxes and boxes of books show up at my door only to find out even more had been sent to God knows where.

Bless, their hearts, that started me getting my money back...... and led me to helping other people get their money back. too.

I want to know for certain I am at least somewhat responsible for helping people get over $1,000,000 from Flag. Yep, I want to see at least a million a year that I have at least a finger in getting pulled out of there.

Am I pissed? Yeah. Still. LOL !

++++Molestation and sex with a child ?~~ no Problem ! Become an OSA volunteer !
++++Molestation and sex with children in all Sea Org Bases in all Continents ?
Not a Problem ! It’s only an OSA matter, not Law Enforcement !
++++Run a Ponzi scheme that rips off multi- millions out of Santa Barbara ~~ No Problem ~~ just do a Meritorius Phallus Platinum Excalilbur !
+++++Arms dealer ? Not a problem ! Send wife to Flag so the bucks$$$ can be raked in for highest evers !
+++++Thieving money on Parishioner’s account by unauthorized sales of BASICS at $5000 a pop ~~ no problem ! It’s the greatest Good !
+++++Beat up your wife in extreme violence ? Not a problem ! Free Flag MAA pass, just give a mega donation ! Cover it up from Law Enforcement ? You bet !
++++Enforcing Sea Org members to clean Feces pond, Rat Alleys, the Bilges of Freewinds with no Hazmat protection ? No problem ! Miscavige and Sea Org are above the law !
++++25 years of enforced abortions on female Sea Org Members ? Not a problem !
“It’s straight from COB !” (David Miscavige)
 

Veda

Sponsor
Insatiable lust for power and money

The same happened to me TWICE at Flag. They deducted money from my account without permission. Both times it took me months to get them to return the money to the account. On another website I read that this embezzlement has become common practice with staff members hammered and pounded to meet their book sales stats or no-exchange donations stats. In desperation, and not wanting to be hanged in ethics for their downstats, they take money from dormant parishioners' accounts. Be careful. The criminal management turns staff members into criminals.

Who do you think turned management into criminals?

From Larry Brennan:

"There was a real secret body of people directly run by Hubbard."

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=90246&postcount=1

From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels, former Mission Holder, and founder of the Delphian School, from the 'Reflections' chapter of the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?' http://www.amazon.com/reader/0942637577?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt :


"Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.

"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...

"And of course the next person thinks he or she is immune. Of course, now Hubbard is dead, so we won't see that pattern particularly repeated, except inasmuch as we'll see the Church hierarchy emulate and carry that pattern forward.

"The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

"And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.

"And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.

"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...

"But the thing that's amazing, and to me terrifying, is the characteristic of the mind, my mind, your mind, and apparently many other people's minds, where I could buy this horseshit, where I could participate in it."



Jesse Prince, Legal Declaration, 1999: http://lermanet.com/reference/Jesse2inWoller.htm


Excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo article on 'Clear':

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."

And from author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986.

"What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be...

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."
 

Motti

Patron
The same happened to me TWICE at Flag. They deducted money from my account without permission. Both times it took me months to get them to return the money to the account. On another website I read that this embezzlement has become common practice with staff members hammered and pounded to meet their book sales stats or no-exchange donations stats. In desperation, and not wanting to be hanged in ethics for their downstats, they take money from dormant parishioners' accounts. Be careful. The criminal management turns staff members into criminals.

It can be expected. Poverty leads to crime. Suppression leads to crime. Poverty and suppression, the two commodities SO and staff are subjected to, lead to double crime.
The ethical standard of the poor boy in the ghetto is: "do everything to survive". steal money, steal food, etc. Same with staff when they're persecuted to meet unreasonable booksales stats or else. So they steal the money from the accounts.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau of each state, file a complaint with the Attorney General of each state. This Organization thinks they are above the law of the land and it is obvious they are abusing their "ecclesiastical duties" to treat people fairly. File online..it takes just seconds. EVERYONE START FILING COMPLAINTS with BBB, Attorney General and find out what government agency oversees churches. Surely there must be one! :angry: The Church of Scientology is the MOST hated church on this planet. They are going down soon.:yes:
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Has anybody gotten a refund recently? I heard that the Cof$ is not giving refunds anymore...

They must have changed their policy on refunds and repayments - apparently now there is an arbitration clause in the service agreements? Maybe I just missed it because I was staff the whole time but I don't remember anything about an arbitration agreement, just the blasted routing form we used if someone wanted to leave.

I got a refund back in 2001 from the IAS for my Lifetime membership. It was easy. Nowadays not so much.
 

dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
They are calling them 'donations' and therefore, they don't feel 'obligated' to refund.

However, the invoice says, advance payment for.

Of course they ignore that..

They must have changed their policy on refunds and repayments - apparently now there is an arbitration clause in the service agreements? Maybe I just missed it because I was staff the whole time but I don't remember anything about an arbitration agreement, just the blasted routing form we used if someone wanted to leave.

I got a refund back in 2001 from the IAS for my Lifetime membership. It was easy. Nowadays not so much.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
It's time to get this ignore rant new policy into SP friendly newspapers. The online versions are best.:thumbsup:

I think the SP Times mentioned it in their article on the Schippers (sp?) but I don't know of any other mentions. I'm always down for a media blitz though! :thumbsup:
 
Top