Research and Questions

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Are there any socially acceptable behaviors for men that are not okay for women? and vice versa?

Sounds a little subjective. I think women who get into drunken bar-fights get a lot of social askance viewing, and, men who spend a lot of time giggling in cliques get the same.

But, everything's up for grabs.

Zinj
 
Are there any specific social obligations that one is expected to perform within the Church? For example, visiting your neighbors daily etc..

Thank you for all of the help! :)
 
Can one ever be considered a moral person if not within the Church? Did you ever have any specific experiences in which the morals you learned from Scientology did not extend into your daily life?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Are there any specific social obligations that one is expected to perform within the Church? For example, visiting your neighbors daily etc..

Thank you for all of the help! :)

The only social obligation is dissemating Scientology. Scientology is Mankind's Only Hope, so, all positive social activity is towards promoting universal Scientology (The Clear Planet)

Zinj
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Can one ever be considered a moral person if not within the Church? Did you ever have any specific experiences in which the morals you learned from Scientology did not extend into your daily life?

There are three categories:

1: Scientologists

2: People who have not yet joined (or, best, even heard about) Scientology. Also called 'Raw Meat'.

3: People who reject Scientology. These are 'enemies' of not only Scientology but Mankind itself.

There are subcategories of all of these, but, that's the major breakdown.

Zinj
 

GoButtonIsBlowButton

Patron with Honors
Women's behavior... one opinion

You should get yourself briefed on just how wacky and silly-bureaucratic this organization is. It's not at all as it's publicly portrayed. That having been said....

My observations are from the late 60's thru early 80's -- unlike what someone else observed, I saw women and men in 'worker' and 'management' positions equally, and the counsellors were sometimes more women than men. I was frankly impressed, because it wasn't something you saw in the real world at that time -- it was talked about in radical feminist forums, but had not really been implemented in any sort of meaningful way.

This was not a result of affirmative action or plan -- the organization is mind-numbingly and needlessly complex, complete with a NASA-like organizational chart that is mandated to be filled from the top down. Because the pay is miserable, either true believers or true-true believer-billion-year (not a typo) 'Sea Organization' members filled the slots. Filling was done based on need and training, often boiling down to 'can this person fog a mirror?', but blind to any modern-day real world age/sex/etc. criteria. It was not done based necessarily on the desires of the employee, but on the hole that needed filling. Because of that, "hilarity often ensued." Think Keystone Cops.

My first organization had a woman running it, all my personal counsellors were women, and ... well, lotsa babes for a young man to enjoy the company of! Other organizations had women in very high positions as well as the lowly ones. Hubbard's wife ran the infamous Guardian Office that in 1977 attracted so much FBI attention. Her skills and that of her organization rivaled anything John LeCarre could conjure, and she had many women in the intelligence network helping, among other things, to spy on the IRS and FDA.

When your boss tells you to do something in the organization, you do it pronto unless you can find a policy that says otherwise. The equality meant you could hear women managers uttering colorful profanity and often becoming as aggressive and violent with employees as their XY counterparts. In those days it was a shock to new employees, quickly overcome due to the frequency of occurrence, especially if directed at you!

At the DC church, one thing that I feel helped the organization in spite of itself was that couples stopped their furtive copulations, got married, and had kids. People got part-time jobs. Other things started to matter. A kinder, gentler place ensued. It may sound "so what" to you, but it was revolutionary to that time and place. You'll have to ask some of the people from the 90's if child-bearing has been "discouraged" (think China), as is rumored -- I have no direct knowledge, but if this is the case, it may be the reason for the discouragement.

God, I hope you're not an OSA agent.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Are there any specific social obligations that one is expected to perform within the Church? For example, visiting your neighbors daily etc..

Thank you for all of the help! :)
No. No normal social obligations of any sort at all. Except that everyone is supposed to "FSM" at all times. This means disseminate scientology, and get everyone you meet onto scientology services to solve any questions or problems they might have concerning life. This supplants social activity.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Can one ever be considered a moral person if not within the Church? Did you ever have any specific experiences in which the morals you learned from Scientology did not extend into your daily life?
Morality is not something scientology or scientologists are concerned with, except that they are supposed to show outrage about psychiatry being a moral crime. Instead, morality is supplanted with functional requirements. You do "whatever it takes" to "make it go right". Anything goes, unless you get caught, in which case you are hung out to dry.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Can one ever be considered a moral person if not within the Church? Did you ever have any specific experiences in which the morals you learned from Scientology did not extend into your daily life?

One of my most interesting experiences was after leaving, meeting a gay guy who changed my life. Within the "Church" someone who is homosexual is considered "down the tone scale" and moraly corrupt, likely to stab you in the back type of thing.

I found the opposite to be true with my friend and it was part of my waking up.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Morality is not something scientology or scientologists are concerned with, except that they are supposed to show outrage about psychiatry being a moral crime. Instead, morality is supplanted with functional requirements. You do "whatever it takes" to "make it go right". Anything goes, unless you get caught, in which case you are hung out to dry.

I can see from that viewpoint.

.
 

Escalus

Patron Meritorious
At the DC church, one thing that I feel helped the organization in spite of itself was that couples stopped their furtive copulations, got married, and had kids. People got part-time jobs. Other things started to matter. A kinder, gentler place ensued. It may sound "so what" to you, but it was revolutionary to that time and place. You'll have to ask some of the people from the 90's if child-bearing has been "discouraged" (think China), as is rumored -- I have no direct knowledge, but if this is the case, it may be the reason for the discouragement.

God, I hope you're not an OSA agent.

I'm going to second this because I am also a mid-70's DC alum. Sandy Wilhere (LRH Comm) could mock up the meanest face on the planet (I know she's still in and having hard times but I can't help it - I still don't like her) and was IN CHARGE of her space. I can't explain it. And what GoButton says about being a bit ahead of its time is true. In the mid-70's the country talked a good equality, but inside the org - we were already doing it.
 
1.

5. What specific social categories are there between the elite and non-elite?

from what I remember from 20 years ago on staff (in order):
RPF/SP's
New guys (raw meat)
people on ethics handling (PTS, etc)
Off-line public
On-line public (sub catagories of Class 5 org, upper orgs, flag, freewinds)
Staff at class 5 level
SO staff at cl 5
so staff at service orgs
so staff at continent level
so staff at flag level (management FOLO - not flag service org)
so staff at int level (gold, rtc, etc)

Could someone explain these to me a little further? Sorrry...
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
The only social obligation is dissemating Scientology. Scientology is Mankind's Only Hope, so, all positive social activity is towards promoting universal Scientology (The Clear Planet)

Zinj

Zinj, I wonder if your cynically opinion helps Caroline.

alex
 

Roland ami

Patron with Honors
Explaining

5. What specific social categories are there between the elite and non-elite?

from what I remember from 20 years ago on staff (in order):
RPF/SP's
New guys (raw meat)
people on ethics handling (PTS, etc)
Off-line public
On-line public (sub catagories of Class 5 org, upper orgs, flag, freewinds)
Staff at class 5 level
SO staff at cl 5
so staff at service orgs
so staff at continent level
so staff at flag level (management FOLO - not flag service org)
so staff at int level (gold, rtc, etc)

RPF/SPs are people who are either on the "RPF", meaning that they have screwed up while on staff, and so have been sent to this group in an attempt to rehabilitate them (or as others would put it, degrade them completely),while SP's are "Suppressive Persons", people who are determined to be anti-social, bad people. In other words, in this category are the untouchables.

New guys are people who have just shown up as public (not staff), and who don't have a clue about anything yet.

People on ethics handling are any of the higher categories who have done something (in someone's eyes) bad, and who are working through the particular Scientology procedures called ethics handling. They aren't allowed to do courses, or get auditing, they can only do whatever it is they have been told to do until everything is sorted out to the approval of the "ethics officer". PTS people are "potential trouble sources" - people who are either sick, or who are connected in some way to an SP. The theory is that if you are sick you are PTS, so off you go (usually) to ethics. PTS can be handled in auditing, but often it is handled in ethics.

Off-line public are people who are not staff, but have done some courses or gotten some auditing, but who aren't doing anything at the moment. This is a Bad Thing, as if they were doing everything right, they would want to be doing their next service.

On-line public are people who are not staff who actually are currently doing something. The higher the organization (org) they are involved in, the higher their status.

The next set are staff people in ascending order of importance based on their org. Lowly missions are the least, ordinary (class V) organizations next, then the midlle ones that deal with clear, then the OT ones, then Flag, then the Important People in the management orgs.
Also, Sea Org people are of higher status than ordinary staff people.

Roland
 
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