Reverse Suppression

OutFO38

Patron
There's something that's been on my mind for awhile and I'd like to get other people's viewpoints about it. It's in regards to those people that are "under the radar" due to loved ones still in the church.

Sometimes I feel like it's actually "suppressive" for me to not be able to voice how I really feel to my loved ones and to just have to act like everything is hunky-dory in regards to their involvement within Scn. In some way I feel I minimize myself because I have to hide the anti-scn side of myself. Everyone has the right to be who they are and believe what they wish. Everyone should be able to be who they are with family and friends. I find it funny that I accept these people as they are and still wish to remain close to them, even though I disagree with a lot of their scn views, yet I can not be who I truly am. Not being able to be open about who I truly am is the main issue for me. I don't want to lose my family but at the same time sometimes I just want to say f*ck it!

I know there are many factors involved and because they are brainwashed or whatever it's like we have to take the high road.

Expanding upon that - sometimes I feel like I'm being 1.1 and if these people knew how I truly felt they would probably disconnect from me. So I feel I'm being deceitful in a way. Should my scn loved ones have all the data so they can decide if they want to remain associated with me?

Ugh! Such a conundrum...
 
One of the first courses I took when I was online was the "Personal Integrity Course". Alot of it I agreed with. When I left, I ran into a friend who was still online and I explained to him that I was no longer a part of it and if he wanted to know why, I'd tell him . .but he wouldn't like what he heard. He said he didn't want to know.

We still talk, but the subject of Scientology never comes up. Eventually he'll want to know why I'm not online anymore and I'll tell him but I'm not going to beat the drum of all things wrong with Scientology. This way he reaches.

It's passive, but less shocking than if I were to tell him that the religion is based on a really bad screenplay L.Ron couldn't get financed in hollywood called " Revolt in the Stars". :omg:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
There's something that's been on my mind for awhile and I'd like to get other people's viewpoints about it. It's in regards to those people that are "under the radar" due to loved ones still in the church.

Sometimes I feel like it's actually "suppressive" for me to not be able to voice how I really feel to my loved ones and to just have to act like everything is hunky-dory in regards to their involvement within Scn. In some way I feel I minimize myself because I have to hide the anti-scn side of myself. Everyone has the right to be who they are and believe what they wish. Everyone should be able to be who they are with family and friends. I find it funny that I accept these people as they are and still wish to remain close to them, even though I disagree with a lot of their scn views, yet I can not be who I truly am. Not being able to be open about who I truly am is the main issue for me. I don't want to lose my family but at the same time sometimes I just want to say f*ck it!

I know there are many factors involved and because they are brainwashed or whatever it's like we have to take the high road.

Expanding upon that - sometimes I feel like I'm being 1.1 and if these people knew how I truly felt they would probably disconnect from me. So I feel I'm being deceitful in a way. Should my scn loved ones have all the data so they can decide if they want to remain associated with me?

Ugh! Such a conundrum...

This is something I lived with for many, many years. I think you are totally right that everyone has the right to be who they are and it was this point that finally tipped the balance for me.

It is not a two way street, as you say. You accept their views and do so with love, you allow them to have their views and beliefs because you understand where they are coming from, but it is not reciprocated. That is sadly because the very structure of scientology does not allow free speech and thought, no matter how much it is trumpeted that it does.

For me it was the prospect of an Xmas gathering where I would once again have to watch every word I said, would have to use the jargon which I had long ago given up and only used with them (it's like being bi-lingual), and be prepared to accept the somewhat arrogant tolerance of as someone 'not quite right' even if I said all the right things. It's a feeling - I limp and remember a family member watching me walk up some stairs - the unspoken attitude in that look that I was a (insert label) was as loud as any words. I realised I was trying not to limp and thought "this is enough"..... I felt degraded.

I struggled with what to do and I think was just at the point where I had read enough, talked enough and thought enough to start to value myself as having an equal right to be me, so I said I would not be coming to the Xmas do and am speaking out about my experiences. Yes, I knew it would involve disconnection (after 'handlings' failed to stop me talking) and in a few cases unfortunately it did. That is part of the choice - and hard as it was and as distressing as it still is sometimes, after three years of being me - I wouldn't trade it for the world. I know those family members, at some point, will also face the choice, and when they do I will be here. The fact that they don't talk to me or accept contact in any way does not make me love them less.
The fact that I can now love and be myself is actually a beautiful gift to myself. :)
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I'd like to add that in my case I was not dealing with people who were staff or SO. That is a different kettle of fish as staff really don't have access to the truth and their lives are so incredibly restricted there is little wiggle room with attitudes.

There is good advice that when dealing with staff and SO it is best to keep the contact, send letters etc and let them know you are still there for them, no matter if you are perhaps compromising with how you really feel. These people are going to need all the help they can get and until the time comes when free communication is possible, some contact is better than none.

However when you are dealing with 'public' I feel it's a bit different as they DO have access to information, if they choose to look.
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
There is a lot that I left behind in Scientology because it just wasn't true.
However, there were things I did find useful.
One of these things were these definitions of "responsibility" - "the concept of being able to care for" and "able to withold".
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'd like to add that in my case I was not dealing with people who were staff or SO. That is a different kettle of fish as staff really don't have access to the truth and their lives are so incredibly restricted there is little wiggle room with attitudes.

There is good advice that when dealing with staff and SO it is best to keep the contact, send letters etc and let them know you are still there for them, no matter if you are perhaps compromising with how you really feel. These people are going to need all the help they can get and until the time comes when free communication is possible, some contact is better than none.

However when you are dealing with 'public' I feel it's a bit different as they DO have access to information, if they choose to look.

Good point, FTS! :yes: The public can look much more easily than staff and especially sea org.
 
I think it's going to depend on just how much of the KoolAid they are drinking and how many of them are involved. Also, how much you saw and how much good could come about from you exposing the injustices, esp in the Sea Org. You could do a lot to expose the injustices in the Co$, and this is a great time, with all the bad publicity. Also, one of the reasons I left was because a very respected person in my org was declared. It didn't make any sense. So sometimes these things make us think.

But on the flip side, you could just hang there and be the one they could come to. When I realized the Co$ was a scam, which was just a few weeks ago, I was shocked to find that my mother knew EVERYTHING, she has the book Counterfeit Dreams, Deceived, My Billion Year Contract, and Scientology: The Demon Cult. She had even talked to Chuck Beatty, found his name in the back of a book. She was afraid to say anything to me cause she knew if she was antagonistic that I would be forced to disconnect from her, I was being regged for SO. I was trained to think she was all PTS and what not, but in reality she had the best TRs! She was so amazing and staying quiet and "keeping in her TRs". She never ever let me know what she knew, and I am grateful cause I was then able to talk to her when coming out. Almost everyone, even potential 2ds, who talked anything bad about $cientology was in my eyes (when I was in it) totally evil and had to be handled or disconnected. I put up mental walls against anyone against it when I was in the cult.

Stay strong. It will work out.

:blowkiss:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Sorry to keep prattliing on here, this is a subject dear to my heart.

I was just thinking of how I came to choose the name "Free to Shine". It was part of the decision to finally stand tall and it represented the concept of not allowing scientology attitudes, especially via family, to make me mute anymore. It took 54 years of my life to get to that point. :bigcry:

Cakemaker - would you like to expand on the concepts of withholding/responsibility/care as far as this subject goes?
 
There's something that's been on my mind for awhile and I'd like to get other people's viewpoints about it. It's in regards to those people that are "under the radar" due to loved ones still in the church.

Sometimes I feel like it's actually "suppressive" for me to not be able to voice how I really feel to my loved ones and to just have to act like everything is hunky-dory in regards to their involvement within Scn. In some way I feel I minimize myself because I have to hide the anti-scn side of myself. Everyone has the right to be who they are and believe what they wish. Everyone should be able to be who they are with family and friends. I find it funny that I accept these people as they are and still wish to remain close to them, even though I disagree with a lot of their scn views, yet I can not be who I truly am. Not being able to be open about who I truly am is the main issue for me. I don't want to lose my family but at the same time sometimes I just want to say f*ck it!

I know there are many factors involved and because they are brainwashed or whatever it's like we have to take the high road.

Expanding upon that - sometimes I feel like I'm being 1.1 and if these people knew how I truly felt they would probably disconnect from me. So I feel I'm being deceitful in a way. Should my scn loved ones have all the data so they can decide if they want to remain associated with me?

Ugh! Such a conundrum...

As long as you are in the situation you are in, you will probably keep questioning it or wondering whether or not you are doing "the right thing". In my opinion the best thing for your own peace of mind is not to worry about whether you are "wrong". You know you have reasons for not being open, so just assess those reasons. I am assuming that you are not being open because to do so may do much more harm than good. That seems like a fair enough reason, not to speak your mind. You have not created the situation. Things often turn out better if they are "left on the boiler" for a while, as you think through the issues involved. In the future, it it likely the right time will just present itself when you are certain that you do want to be more open with them; and who knows? they may say something to specifically "invite" to you say some of what you don't want to say just now. You cannot completely know how they would react if you say exactly what you think right now; but you can take a good guess and make a decision not to cause too much of a counter-productive situation by speaking up too early.

Having said all that, I also think that any "ex' who says exactly what they think, right now, to their cult friends and family is making a very important stand for their own integrity and strength. There can be emotional fallout, but as far as blame or responsibility goes, that lies with the people who do not want you to be what you really are.
Be happy and if they don't like it; Fuck Them.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Have you ever thought of sending one or more of them a book anonymously? A book like Blown for Good or My Billion Year Contract or one of the other books written by one of the people who escaped from Int/the SO? If you paid a non-Scientology friend in another state or town far from you to buy it and mail it for you so that they wouldn't connect it with you, you could kind of watch their response to that and see what they did with it...like....would they comment on it to others in the family or would they not say anything and maybe read it but keep quiet or hide it or toss it in the trash, etc. To me it would be worth throwing a pebble in the pond to see how the ripples went. If any of them did read it, it might open their eyes a bit to look further.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I handled my PTS situation with all my antagonistic friends and relatives who are still in Scientology by sending them the audiotape: "Can We Ever Be Apostates?"
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Once I left, I definitely wanted to stay "under the radar" and, given my much-mentioned health, I still do. My body simply can't cope with the stresses involved, so I'm better off being an armchair referree.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I'd like to add that in my case I was not dealing with people who were staff or SO. That is a different kettle of fish as staff really don't have access to the truth and their lives are so incredibly restricted there is little wiggle room with attitudes.

There is good advice that when dealing with staff and SO it is best to keep the contact, send letters etc and let them know you are still there for them, no matter if you are perhaps compromising with how you really feel. These people are going to need all the help they can get and until the time comes when free communication is possible, some contact is better than none.

However when you are dealing with 'public' I feel it's a bit different as they DO have access to information, if they choose to look
.


Your posts here are (as always) very insightful Free, and I agree completely re the difference between staff scientologists and public, the first group have no choices to make as they are made for them, but the second group do.

I also spent decades pretending to be someone I was not due to a few different factors, one of them being that I really felt that I was wrong for not wanting to be a scientologist.

After lurking here for 9 months and learning so much I tried to gently communicate my viewpoints to the only people that really mattered to me via little one liners and jokes, which was not very clever as it turned out, as I was summarily dumped like a bucket of shite by my (non staff) adult children, almost immediately.

The indoctrination runs deep, apparently.

I joined ESMB and started to post the day after I was flicked, I had never spoken out till that day.

ESMB has without doubt, saved my sanity though I doubt that anything can save me from the devastation I feel on a daily basis.

I feel better now though than I ever did pretending to be someone else and felt better after my very first post and have never lost that feeling of spiritual freedom that I gained immediately, which is I suppose, quite funny when you think about it.

:whistling:

Re the OP, I would never advise anyone in this situation because I clearly didn't do it right myself ... or maybe I did?

It's a funny old world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo



:yes:
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
Sorry to keep prattliing on here, this is a subject dear to my heart.

I was just thinking of how I came to choose the name "Free to Shine". It was part of the decision to finally stand tall and it represented the concept of not allowing scientology attitudes, especially via family, to make me mute anymore. It took 54 years of my life to get to that point. :bigcry:

Cakemaker - would you like to expand on the concepts of withholding/responsibility/care as far as this subject goes?

Responsibility is also defined as "the concept of being able to care for".
I care that scientology stops the abuses and comes clean.
I get their mail and am on some of their comm lines. If I spoke up to them about my repugnance of the current state, I would be cut off. I find it more useful to withold that communication in order to know what's going on with the organization.
I pass that on and, hopefully, that contributes to the eventual righting of the wrongs.
 

FlunkedForLaughing

Patron with Honors
I deal with this every day. My wife is a public Scientologist. We've tried to talk about it, but whenever I would say anything about the problems and abuse, it was always an example of a bad Scientologist or a bad situation, but not bad Scientology. She's like LALALALA :blah: refusing to look and listen.

When we spoke about it, I said what concerned me the most was the fact that eventually a staff member was going to try and recover me. When that failed they were going to try to separate us by declaring me an SP. I said I wasn't sure how that would turn out for us. Luckily for me she's pretty strong-willed. She said that didn't mean I was an SP. She said if that ever happened, she would ask to see the policies and see evidence and not give in to that type of pressure.

So for now we don't talk about it. We avoid that unpleasant conversation because it won't solve anything. She won't be able to recover me and I won't be able to make her see the abuse. I won't be able to remove the Scn mental conditioning from her. We focus on the good things that we have in common and enjoy our time together. Luckily for me she's not an active Scn but her indoctrination still runs really deep. She plans on going Clear and OT someday. It's an odd situation.

Just about every other aspect of our marriage is great. I think if I pushed her to stay away from Scn and tried to get her to look at the abuse, it would backfire on me. I think she might decide on her own that I was an SP with bad intentions.

I know what I'm dealing with because 3 years ago I was the same way. It's been a diffiCULT transition for me to get out from under the Scn brainwashing and try to stay under-the-radar with my wife. She figured it out before I told her, but she thought it was PTSness, O/W's, case, MU's, Third-Party, etc. (something that could be handled later)

I think when she's ready to start asking questions, she will need me to be there and help her, and of course I can't wait for that day to arrive.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
I deal with this every day.

...

I think when she's ready to start asking questions, she will need me to be there and help her, and of course I can't wait for that day to arrive.

That would be a tough situation. Whilst my muthur was a JW, my father was not, and that was pretty tough on my sister and me. Now my sister has gone all Pentecostal/Creationist and is married to an Evolutionist. Can you imagine the arguments in that family?
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
<snip>
For me it was the prospect of an Xmas gathering where I would once again have to watch every word I said, would have to use the jargon which I had long ago given up and only used with them (it's like being bi-lingual), and be prepared to accept the somewhat arrogant tolerance of as someone 'not quite right' even if I said all the right things. It's a feeling - I limp and remember a family member watching me walk up some stairs - the unspoken attitude in that look that I was a (insert label) was as loud as any words. I realised I was trying not to limp and thought "this is enough"..... I felt degraded.

I struggled with what to do and I think was just at the point where I had read enough, talked enough and thought enough to start to value myself as having an equal right to be me, so I said I would not be coming to the Xmas do and am speaking out about my experiences. Yes, I knew it would involve disconnection (after 'handlings' failed to stop me talking) and in a few cases unfortunately it did. That is part of the choice - and hard as it was and as distressing as it still is sometimes, after three years of being me - I wouldn't trade it for the world. I know those family members, at some point, will also face the choice, and when they do I will be here. The fact that they don't talk to me or accept contact in any way does not make me love them less.
The fact that I can now love and be myself is actually a beautiful gift to myself. :)

:angry:
:bigcry:
:happydance:

This made me teary.
To be judged a degraded person, because of a limp, by arrogant superior beings, who just happened to be lucky enough to have a flaw they can hide, or a flaw acceptable to the church...just makes me..:ohmy::duh::angry:

These are the people who think its ok that their spiritual counselling is delivered by slave labour and children are working, and being seriously injured in the production of the basics books. But a limp is degraded? :angry:

I am so glad you are now free to shine as the person you really are. I hope that your light helps your loved ones remember soon who they really are too and what is truly important.:bighug:
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
There's something that's been on my mind for awhile and I'd like to get other people's viewpoints about it. It's in regards to those people that are "under the radar" due to loved ones still in the church.

Sometimes I feel like it's actually "suppressive" for me to not be able to voice how I really feel to my loved ones and to just have to act like everything is hunky-dory in regards to their involvement within Scn. In some way I feel I minimize myself because I have to hide the anti-scn side of myself. Everyone has the right to be who they are and believe what they wish. Everyone should be able to be who they are with family and friends. I find it funny that I accept these people as they are and still wish to remain close to them, even though I disagree with a lot of their scn views, yet I can not be who I truly am. Not being able to be open about who I truly am is the main issue for me. I don't want to lose my family but at the same time sometimes I just want to say f*ck it!

I know there are many factors involved and because they are brainwashed or whatever it's like we have to take the high road.

Expanding upon that - sometimes I feel like I'm being 1.1 and if these people knew how I truly felt they would probably disconnect from me. So I feel I'm being deceitful in a way. Should my scn loved ones have all the data so they can decide if they want to remain associated with me?

Ugh! Such a conundrum...
Uhm.. There's really nothing 'reverse' about this situation. It straight Keeping Scientology Working! -You, and I, are/were just on the bad end of it..

It's not just KSW being 'applied' though.. It's also all the stuff about avoiding 'entheta', spotting BI's and 'case' in people.. And recall that a scientologists is always alert and on guard for the possibility that an SP is found. Nobody exempt or above suspicion really.. A scientologist takes pride in being unreasonable, ruthless and uncompromising.

So what a scientologist actively DOES, is supressing any opposition or disagreement with Hubbard and Scientology.. He's not even defending, or doing it for himself either.. It's this 'subject' and that dude Hubbard!

Well, there's golfers who'd do it for golf... Disconnect you too, if you don't like golf.

I'm quite impressed, BTW, by the manipulative dexterity displayed by Hubbard, in making scientologists do this and have them NOT realize that they are in fact supressing!

:yes:
 
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