Reverse Suppression

IMMORTAL

Patron Meritorious
I’m in the same boat. When I finally felt that I needed to make myself known to those closest to me and be more honest about my viewpoints, I gently and individually had a little communication with each of them and lightly touched on some tiny concern. To them, this was a huge opening. It just doesn’t happen that a died-in-the-wool Scientologist, like they thought of me, would say anything negative at all about any aspect of Scientology, so I was hoping this would get their attention. One to one, they did not fail to notice my bait and pounced on it immediately. Mind you, this was a very small thing that I could’ve easily backed out of or justified in some way to save my Scientology status and not cause a problem had it gone the “wrong” way.

As a result, every single one of them came forth with their own stories and how long they’ve been out, varying in time from 5 to up to 14 years. Some are still under the radar for financial or other reasons and so, in order to protect their interest in case there is any connection to me, I’m also still under the radar.

If I look though, if they would’ve “come out” and told me their position on the church years ago, that would’ve caused me problems on my bridge progress. This would’ve caused me to either have to disconnect from them and continue my bridge, or to give up my bridge in order to maintain contact with them. I’m glad I didn’t have to be involved in making that choice. As a result, I had a relatively smooth haul to my goal with minimal interference. I did what I wanted and achieved what I’d been striving for all those years.

Even very religious peripheral relatives who knew the score about Scientology didn’t interfere with me. They respected my choices. They were, after all, mine and I would have to live with them either way. But, they chose to let me be and make my own way through it. They’d told me over the years where they stood so I knew that; but they did not continue to rake me over the coals about it and maintained an open communication line with me which included love to me and acceptance with who I was. This was valuable to me then and over the years, and when I was ready to start looking for answers and needed their support.

Now, after all is said and done, I can say I appreciate that they did not make waves for me while I was so engrossed in achieving my goals in Scientology. I would’ve had to spend more time with the MAA, buy more intensives, maybe never make the goal I’d been striving for all those years. They did, however, occasionally put little threads out there to make it easy for me to know that I could talk to them about it when the time came. Little pieces of information, like maybe not even a word. Maybe it was just a look or facial expression that conveyed to me that they would be there for me when the time came. So, I knew that and felt relatively safe with my little communication bait when the time did come.

Sigh, but for me now, it is a bit of the dilemma you mention. I’m okay as long as I stick to communication on ESMB or other similar communication, or with the folks I’m “out” with, but as soon as I start to communicate to someone who is still “in” or a "believer", I feel like a hypocrite, a liar, a pretender, a fake. I don’t like it and want to not feel that way. But, I know the repercussions of what would happen if I satisfied my own desire with these people and told them where I stood so I could feel better about myself. Right now it would not work out well for them and there are many more of them than just the one me.

Plus, if they are like me, and I trust most of them are, they will eventually come to the same point of enough integrity violations or cognitive dissonance like I did, that the balance will tip and they will start their own search for answers. I plant little seeds where I can to help them along. They will know that I will be here for them when they reach that point.

I could easily just come out and tell them I'm out and why they should be, but if someone would've done that with me, while I was still so involved, I would have not listened, been forced to report the situation and would've had to make some seriously hard choices.

Everyone’s situation is a little bit different and each person has to evaluate for themselves what is best for them and theirs. Just my two cents.
 

xyz1000

Patron
Hello

It think you are up against a brick wall if you are wanting them to
accept that you are don't agree with their view point. If you are
willing to take the risk of them disconnecting from you then I say
go ahead and let them know how you feel but it sounds like you
want to remain in comm with them.

I guess they must know your views to some degree or you
would be a member of the church. Unless they are trying to
push their ideas/tech on you or always talking scientology in front of you
I don't see the need to get into it. Your not being 1.1 if you dont
want to know about it that is up to you.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is a difficult situation to be in and I see from other posts you have excellent advice being given to you on this thread.

I was also in the same situation. Being a second generation scientologist, having been on staff for a stretch in L.A. I also knew quite a bit of scientologists. There were a couple of steps I took:
1. I didn't rush anything. I took my time and only acted when I was fully prepared to act. I never acted on impulse, actually it was when my pulse was raised that I knew it was definitely *not* a good time to say what was on my mind. This was very good advice I got from several people here actually, in particular Zinj (thank you forever for that Zinj).
Becoming a dedicated scientologist is a process. It doesn't (generally) happen over night for people. Through a series of actions scientology becomes more and more embedded in people, like a culture in another land or a new language - it takes time to build and to really "set in".
2. scientology is set up in a way to interfere with the occasion where scientological beliefs are called into question (think PTS/SP, PR, TR's....etc). As soon as a scientologist feels their belief's are called into question a certain "protective wall" gets put up and instead of you talking to a scientologist, you are now "being handled" by a scientologist. It's difficult but you have to move away from "being handled" to "having a real conversation" otherwise you are wasting your breath.
3. You need to separate your viewpoint from theirs. This is important and once you are able to do this, you will have a little bit more peace.

For me, I was no longer a scientologist and never would be again. When I left the "church" I left all of scientology. So when I would be faced with wanting to tell my family something, but didn't because of my personal fear of disconnection - I also wondered: Am I being 1.1 with my family? I am just lying and having a fake relationship with them? How can I possibly have a genuine relationship with them while not telling them I am out?

Once I separated their view point from mine I was able to work through that, for myself. I had to ask myself: Am I being "1.1"? Well, my first realization was that I no longer was a "believer" and I have to laugh here, but: "the condition of 1.1" no longer APPLIED to me! :happydance: Once I realized that I had to take a minute and let that settle in. A lot fell in line for me after that.

I knew why I wasn't telling my family and I knew it was OKAY. I also did something that was very emotionally healthy for me (and in my opinion, for *them*) I established my own personal relationship with them, got to know them again and let them get to know me more. *totally* out side of any religious aspects. My new job, my garden, my sons, my drawings... and vice versa. I realize I really *liked* my family and really just worked on having a healthy relationship with them.

You see, I "knew" what their viewpoint would be if they knew the whole "truth", but I also realized that is THEIR viewpoint, not *mine*. I also realized that their viewpoint would be based on all the lies we are told as scientologists.

I eventually, after a couple of years, did get to the point where I asked myself: would they be more angry that I told them, or that I *DIDN'T* tell them. I sure as hell knew that if I were in their shoes, I would be pissed as hell if they didn't as least TRY to get through to me, you know?
But then I also struggled with 'who am *I* to wake them up from their dream? What if they don't want to know'?
Because I loved my family as much as I did I was also willing to "let then have their fantasy" you know, who the hell am *I* to decide they should know what I know, right? And who's to say they would come to the same conclusion as I did?

In the end I had to do what I knew was right. As far as I know, I am the only second generation scientologist who made it out of the "church" with my whole family intact. So I can say my process worked for me.

Don't forget where you came from. Did you ever get to the point while you were still in where it wouldn't matter what anyone said to you, you would never leave scientology? I know I had and that was something I reminded myself every time I wanted to tell my family.
It hurts my heart to remember "being there" and it hurts my heart more to know that there are so many out there in the same place... worse, I think of all the families that have been torn apart by this cult.

Sorry for the long post, I haven't been here for a while and your OP struck a cord with me. I hope what I wrote helps.
 

OutFO38

Patron
This is something I lived with for many, many years. I think you are totally right that everyone has the right to be who they are and it was this point that finally tipped the balance for me.

It is not a two way street, as you say. You accept their views and do so with love, you allow them to have their views and beliefs because you understand where they are coming from, but it is not reciprocated. That is sadly because the very structure of scientology does not allow free speech and thought, no matter how much it is trumpeted that it does.

For me it was the prospect of an Xmas gathering where I would once again have to watch every word I said, would have to use the jargon which I had long ago given up and only used with them (it's like being bi-lingual), and be prepared to accept the somewhat arrogant tolerance of as someone 'not quite right' even if I said all the right things. It's a feeling - I limp and remember a family member watching me walk up some stairs - the unspoken attitude in that look that I was a (insert label) was as loud as any words. I realised I was trying not to limp and thought "this is enough"..... I felt degraded.

I struggled with what to do and I think was just at the point where I had read enough, talked enough and thought enough to start to value myself as having an equal right to be me, so I said I would not be coming to the Xmas do and am speaking out about my experiences. Yes, I knew it would involve disconnection (after 'handlings' failed to stop me talking) and in a few cases unfortunately it did. That is part of the choice - and hard as it was and as distressing as it still is sometimes, after three years of being me - I wouldn't trade it for the world. I know those family members, at some point, will also face the choice, and when they do I will be here. The fact that they don't talk to me or accept contact in any way does not make me love them less.
The fact that I can now love and be myself is actually a beautiful gift to myself. :)
FTS - I really like your post and admire you for taking a stand and being true to who you are. I totally know what you mean about those people making you feel degraded. I have felt the same way because of my choices or lifestyle that does not align with the Scn moral code or whatever. It really has been a struggle to break those chains and truly know and believe that I am a good person and that there is nothing wrong with me.
Keep shinin' :)
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
There's something that's been on my mind for awhile and I'd like to get other people's viewpoints about it. It's in regards to those people that are "under the radar" due to loved ones still in the church.

Sometimes I feel like it's actually "suppressive" for me to not be able to voice how I really feel to my loved ones and to just have to act like everything is hunky-dory in regards to their involvement within Scn. In some way I feel I minimize myself because I have to hide the anti-scn side of myself. Everyone has the right to be who they are and believe what they wish. Everyone should be able to be who they are with family and friends. I find it funny that I accept these people as they are and still wish to remain close to them, even though I disagree with a lot of their scn views, yet I can not be who I truly am. Not being able to be open about who I truly am is the main issue for me. I don't want to lose my family but at the same time sometimes I just want to say f*ck it!

I know there are many factors involved and because they are brainwashed or whatever it's like we have to take the high road.

Expanding upon that - sometimes I feel like I'm being 1.1 and if these people knew how I truly felt they would probably disconnect from me. So I feel I'm being deceitful in a way. Should my scn loved ones have all the data so they can decide if they want to remain associated with me?

Ugh! Such a conundrum...

It has been and continues to be a conundrum. I have an OTVIII friend who is one of the most inept people I have ever known and I say nothing about anything to that one.

I have a friend who never made it to clear that when asked mw "why" I just sent a copy of my letter to the church - and that one was gone gone gone.

And I have friends everywhere in between. I, as we all now realize, there is no one size fits all "bridge". Neither is there any one size fits all blow apart of a cult mind set.

What " did it " for me is nothing to someone else and perhaps what " did it" for them is likewise meanigless to me - and others.

To my way of thinking all one can do is to make a best guess as to what will impinge and slid it over.... and, yes, risk being banned for life by someone deeply cared about.

Bottom line for me is it more important to me to be in contact with that person all along the way or is it more important to get them out of the cult right now.

Used to be " exit counselers "
 

OutFO38

Patron
I really appreciate everyone's responses and advice. Just reading about your experiences and knowing there are others out there that have struggled with this seems to lighten my own load somehow. :thankyou:

I think I will just continue as I have... I will keep my views to myself (at least for now), but will not allow it to make me feel guilty. Hopefully one day my loved ones will start to question things and I can be there for them!

OutFO38
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I really appreciate everyone's responses and advice. Just reading about your experiences and knowing there are others out there that have struggled with this seems to lighten my own load somehow. :thankyou:

I think I will just continue as I have... I will keep my views to myself (at least for now), but will not allow it to make me feel guilty. Hopefully one day my loved ones will start to question things and I can be there for them!

OutFO38

Glad it helped!

This is such an individual thing, there's no one size fits all. We have to judge it on our own circumstances, and our own hearts at the time.

The most important thing is to not feel bad about yourself - so when the going gets tough, pop in and talk. And remember that the disintegration of the whole structure has started and continues to snowball. :)
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just to throw my hat in the ring...

I will not advise on what one should or should not do.

However, I'll say this, I believe that the disconnection process commences as soon as you get connected with Scientology.

It's designed for you to look and disapprove of individuals and things which challenge you and whatever your involved in.

The Church's doctrines are full of datums and labelling of individuals, the PTS/SP tech, Tone Scale are those very tools one uses to separate out from life and livingness of the real world.

So you then devalue, compartment and close off situations in your life in those areas which threaten you. Some family and friends, outside the Church, pick up on the potential disconnection early and so pull back and do not challenge you for fear of loosing contact with you. They sit and wait for the moment you come go back to them and when you do their relief and joy is incredible.

For those individuals in, disconnection is easier as your value to them has already been devalued and you are disposable. The only reason they put up any fight to get you back into the fold is because it affects their position and progress up the Bridge, a very selfish view indeed. Not because they love you or that your happiness is their major concern, none of that.

People and things have no value in the Church. Per Hubbard 'you are only as valuable as you can help' (may not be exact datum, but ya get the idea) so you withdraw from the church and therefore your help is no longer available so you are of no value.

The above is from my recent thoughts and resolutions on the matter of disconnection.
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
I’m in the same boat. When I finally felt that I needed to make myself known to those closest to me and be more honest about my viewpoints, I gently and individually had a little communication with each of them and lightly touched on some tiny concern. To them, this was a huge opening. It just doesn’t happen that a died-in-the-wool Scientologist, like they thought of me, would say anything negative at all about any aspect of Scientology, so I was hoping this would get their attention. One to one, they did not fail to notice my bait and pounced on it immediately. Mind you, this was a very small thing that I could’ve easily backed out of or justified in some way to save my Scientology status and not cause a problem had it gone the “wrong” way.

As a result, every single one of them came forth with their own stories and how long they’ve been out, varying in time from 5 to up to 14 years. Some are still under the radar for financial or other reasons and so, in order to protect their interest in case there is any connection to me, I’m also still under the radar.

If I look though, if they would’ve “come out” and told me their position on the church years ago, that would’ve caused me problems on my bridge progress. This would’ve caused me to either have to disconnect from them and continue my bridge, or to give up my bridge in order to maintain contact with them. I’m glad I didn’t have to be involved in making that choice. As a result, I had a relatively smooth haul to my goal with minimal interference. I did what I wanted and achieved what I’d been striving for all those years.

Even very religious peripheral relatives who knew the score about Scientology didn’t interfere with me. They respected my choices. They were, after all, mine and I would have to live with them either way. But, they chose to let me be and make my own way through it. They’d told me over the years where they stood so I knew that; but they did not continue to rake me over the coals about it and maintained an open communication line with me which included love to me and acceptance with who I was. This was valuable to me then and over the years, and when I was ready to start looking for answers and needed their support.

Now, after all is said and done, I can say I appreciate that they did not make waves for me while I was so engrossed in achieving my goals in Scientology. I would’ve had to spend more time with the MAA, buy more intensives, maybe never make the goal I’d been striving for all those years. They did, however, occasionally put little threads out there to make it easy for me to know that I could talk to them about it when the time came. Little pieces of information, like maybe not even a word. Maybe it was just a look or facial expression that conveyed to me that they would be there for me when the time came. So, I knew that and felt relatively safe with my little communication bait when the time did come.

Sigh, but for me now, it is a bit of the dilemma you mention. I’m okay as long as I stick to communication on ESMB or other similar communication, or with the folks I’m “out” with, but as soon as I start to communicate to someone who is still “in” or a "believer", I feel like a hypocrite, a liar, a pretender, a fake. I don’t like it and want to not feel that way. But, I know the repercussions of what would happen if I satisfied my own desire with these people and told them where I stood so I could feel better about myself. Right now it would not work out well for them and there are many more of them than just the one me.

Plus, if they are like me, and I trust most of them are, they will eventually come to the same point of enough integrity violations or cognitive dissonance like I did, that the balance will tip and they will start their own search for answers. I plant little seeds where I can to help them along. They will know that I will be here for them when they reach that point.

I could easily just come out and tell them I'm out and why they should be, but if someone would've done that with me, while I was still so involved, I would have not listened, been forced to report the situation and would've had to make some seriously hard choices.

Everyone’s situation is a little bit different and each person has to evaluate for themselves what is best for them and theirs. Just my two cents.

There are many wonderfully insightful posts on this thread but yours struck a cord with me.

I am one of the lucky ones. When I had the big breakthrough and came to realize that SOMETHING WAS REALLY FUCKING WRONG with Scn, I went to
both my husband and son and told them what I had found out, and they were very interested but also were nicely saying, "Ya, It's about time you figured this shit out". My family had no problems with my epiphany, they were all just relieved that I had finally come out of the trance.

I have a friend who handled the situation in a very similar way to you. This friend was a stone cold ex but absolutely could not tolerate losing anyone in their family. The friend slowly over about a 10 year period, dropped little hints here and there and made it very safe to talk to about scn situations, which of course leads to "waking up".

The friend never got "written up" because their persona was one of an OT and true blue Scientologist, both tech and admin trained, but with a "techie" point of view of Scn rather than an Admin point of view.

For those never in, a Tech guy would view Scn from a "help" the individual point and the Admin guy would be the one screaming for stats and wanting money from the individual.

So my friend was a Tech person with some OT altitude thrown in and knew how to skate around the Scn filtering system and drop little hints to get them to look. I believe my friend basically used Scn to get them to actually look at Scn.

I don't know if I could do that. But because my friend did do it that way, he/she has his/her family and extended family together.

Getting someone to look is really the key to it. Telling them LRH was a pill popping psycho not only doesn't work, but it will make it worse. Dropping little hints, about the outpoints or the violations of LRH policy and intention is more likely to get them to look.

I think you're doing it right.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
There are some very wise comments on this thread.

My comment to the OP: you have to balance your feelings and your desire to stay in touch. Don't fall for any Scientology philosophy, e.g. feeling 1.1 if you're not being totally honest. Just reject that whole tone scale thing and you'll instantly feel much better! There are many lenses to see the world, and Scientology is not the best one.

In my experience, it's just not possible to be totally honest; but concealing the truth in the interests of harmony and love is perfectly acceptable everywhere in the world. If your wish is to stay connected, then do what you need to remain connected and don't beat yourself up. It's hard. But think of your approach as positive, necessary and valid.

For what it's worth, I offer up an alternative experience. For years my family directly or indirectly let me know that while they loved me and would always stand by me, they did not care for Scientology. In my seventh and penultimate year in Scn, I flew to Australia to visit them. Not one of them initiated a conversation about Scn, and every response to anything I'd offer was muted and neutral. Meanwhile, I was dying for someone to say, just stay here, don't fly back. If anyone had said that, I would have stayed. But no-one did, so I flew back to Flag and had a year of agonising trouble and humiliation before I finally blew. When I returned and we were doing the post-mortem, I said rather regretfully that if anyone had urged me to stay, I would never have gone back to Flag. The response of my friends and family was that they had finally given up on persuading me to stay. Much regret on all sides.

So -- you never know when the thing you say will tip someone over the line. Don't give up.

FTS -- I love reading your posts.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Just to throw my hat in the ring...

I will not advise on what one should or should not do.

However, I'll say this, I believe that the disconnection process commences as soon as you get connected with Scientology.

It's designed for you to look and disapprove of individuals and things which challenge you and whatever your involved in.

The Church's doctrines are full of datums and labelling of individuals, the PTS/SP tech, Tone Scale are those very tools one uses to separate out from life and livingness of the real world.

So you then devalue, compartment and close off situations in your life in those areas which threaten you. Some family and friends, outside the Church, pick up on the potential disconnection early and so pull back and do not challenge you for fear of loosing contact with you. They sit and wait for the moment you come go back to them and when you do their relief and joy is incredible.

For those individuals in, disconnection is easier as your value to them has already been devalued and you are disposable. The only reason they put up any fight to get you back into the fold is because it affects their position and progress up the Bridge, a very selfish view indeed. Not because they love you or that your happiness is their major concern, none of that.

People and things have no value in the Church. Per Hubbard 'you are only as valuable as you can help' (may not be exact datum, but ya get the idea) so you withdraw from the church and therefore your help is no longer available so you are of no value.

The above is from my recent thoughts and resolutions on the matter of disconnection.



This post is brilliant and just about says it all for me.

I realised a while ago that I was completely disposable (around about the time I was disposed of) but even worse than that is the understanding that I helped to teach my children the ways of scientology so really only have myself to blame.

Scientology.

Lovely.


:no:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLy6UH2hZLQ
 

Outethicsofficer

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just to throw my hat in the ring...

I will not advise on what one should or should not do.

However, I'll say this, I believe that the disconnection process commences as soon as you get connected with Scientology.

It's designed for you to look and disapprove of individuals and things which challenge you and whatever your involved in.

The Church's doctrines are full of datums and labelling of individuals, the PTS/SP tech, Tone Scale are those very tools one uses to separate out from life and livingness of the real world.

So you then devalue, compartment and close off situations in your life in those areas which threaten you. Some family and friends, outside the Church, pick up on the potential disconnection early and so pull back and do not challenge you for fear of loosing contact with you. They sit and wait for the moment you come go back to them and when you do their relief and joy is incredible.

For those individuals in, disconnection is easier as your value to them has already been devalued and you are disposable. The only reason they put up any fight to get you back into the fold is because it affects their position and progress up the Bridge, a very selfish view indeed. Not because they love you or that your happiness is their major concern, none of that.

People and things have no value in the Church. Per Hubbard 'you are only as valuable as you can help' (may not be exact datum, but ya get the idea) so you withdraw from the church and therefore your help is no longer available so you are of no value.

The above is from my recent thoughts and resolutions on the matter of disconnection.

This is a good post darling and says it all.

James
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
There are some very wise comments on this thread.

My comment to the OP: you have to balance your feelings and your desire to stay in touch. Don't fall for any Scientology philosophy, e.g. feeling 1.1 if you're not being totally honest. Just reject that whole tone scale thing and you'll instantly feel much better! There are many lenses to see the world, and Scientology is not the best one.

In my experience, it's just not possible to be totally honest; but concealing the truth in the interests of harmony and love is perfectly acceptable everywhere in the world. If your wish is to stay connected, then do what you need to remain connected and don't beat yourself up. It's hard. But think of your approach as positive, necessary and valid.

For what it's worth, I offer up an alternative experience. For years my family directly or indirectly let me know that while they loved me and would always stand by me, they did not care for Scientology. In my seventh and penultimate year in Scn, I flew to Australia to visit them. Not one of them initiated a conversation about Scn, and every response to anything I'd offer was muted and neutral. Meanwhile, I was dying for someone to say, just stay here, don't fly back. If anyone had said that, I would have stayed. But no-one did, so I flew back to Flag and had a year of agonising trouble and humiliation before I finally blew. When I returned and we were doing the post-mortem, I said rather regretfully that if anyone had urged me to stay, I would never have gone back to Flag. The response of my friends and family was that they had finally given up on persuading me to stay. Much regret on all sides.

So -- you never know when the thing you say will tip someone over the line. Don't give up.

FTS -- I love reading your posts.

Thanks for that. :)
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Just to throw my hat in the ring...

I will not advise on what one should or should not do.

However, I'll say this, I believe that the disconnection process commences as soon as you get connected with Scientology.

It's designed for you to look and disapprove of individuals and things which challenge you and whatever your involved in.

The Church's doctrines are full of datums and labelling of individuals, the PTS/SP tech, Tone Scale are those very tools one uses to separate out from life and livingness of the real world.

So you then devalue, compartment and close off situations in your life in those areas which threaten you. Some family and friends, outside the Church, pick up on the potential disconnection early and so pull back and do not challenge you for fear of loosing contact with you. They sit and wait for the moment you come go back to them and when you do their relief and joy is incredible.

For those individuals in, disconnection is easier as your value to them has already been devalued and you are disposable. The only reason they put up any fight to get you back into the fold is because it affects their position and progress up the Bridge, a very selfish view indeed. Not because they love you or that your happiness is their major concern, none of that.

People and things have no value in the Church. Per Hubbard 'you are only as valuable as you can help' (may not be exact datum, but ya get the idea) so you withdraw from the church and therefore your help is no longer available so you are of no value.

The above is from my recent thoughts and resolutions on the matter of disconnection.

Brilliant and spot on! :thumbsup:

Scientology creates divisiveness. It creates SEPARATION. It can never be an "all-inclusive" philosophy or practice (despite all the endless PR to the contrary by the Church of Scientology), because it CREATES a very specific set of "good guys" and "bad guys".

There is a viewpoint that exists in various aspects of eastern philosophies, and the existence of THIS CONSCIOUSNESS indicates a person who has evolved and advanced spiritually. That is my opinion, and I currently feel that it is correct (as a wide general truth).

Meher Baba states it as this:

"To love God in the most practical way is to love our fellow beings. If we feel for others in the same way as we feel for our own dear ones, we love God. "

Jesus said it as:

"Love your neighbor as you love yourself"

"Love your enemies"

"Forgive them because they know not what they do"

I could give many examples. The attitude or state of mind is CONTRARY to separation. This approach (when practiced) breaks down the walls of judging anything as "good" or "bad", and instead encourages one to LOVE ALL.

Various practices approach this in different ways. One approach is to involve self with activities that HELP OTHERS (and not delusional "help" or condescending "help" where YOU know better about what the others need - like in Scientology). Continued, helping others as a behavior can bring about the CONSCIOUSNESS of truly seeing, feeling and loving all at a high level.

Other approaches address the state of mind itself and work to meditate on "love", on "loving God" or on "loving others". As one builds this state of mind, as a continuing attitude, behavior also eventually comes into alignment.

Personally, I feel that this idea, as found in eastern philosophies for many centuries, is THE ANSWER to "true spiritual freedom". Of course, I could be wrong, as this idea is dependent on certain assumptions (such as 1. you ARE a spiritual being on some level - as your fundamental and most basic reality, 2. the personal "ego", as an imaginary creation, promotes the viewpoint of separation).

But regardless, as the poster so excellently explained, Scientology CREATES division and separation from the moment that you walk in the door. KSW ideas most certainly heavily encourage a Scientology member's separation from others by virtue of the contrived elitism of Scientology participants ("we are better, and you are inferior" - just read KSW honestly).

ANY philosophy that disables the ability to LOVE ALL equally, as an attitude and AS A PRACTICE, is flawed (from the highest spiritual perspective). Obviously, Scientology, as a philosophy and as a practice, fails tremendously in that regard.

Scientology creates a micro-universe where all that is "good" falls within the bounds of Hubbard and his ideas, and all that is "bad" is everything else outside of Hubbard's mock-up. And yes, this Scientological micro-universe is very much separated from the majority of the rest of life. In fact, Scientologists have began practicing intense disconnection from the moment he or she began accepting the many dumb Hubbardian concepts and views found in the Scientology philosophy.

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