Revoke Scientology's tax exempt status.

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
Bump.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0412-gibney-scientology-20150412-story.html#page=1

A VERY important article by Gibney. He says it all.

To maintain the right to be tax-exempt, however, religions must fulfill certain requirements for charitable organizations. For example, they may not "serve the private interests of any individual" and/or "the organization's purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy."... There is ample precedent for the revocation of tax-exempt status: It happens more than 100 times per year. There is also an important Supreme Court ruling that addresses the religious issue...
 
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Churchill

Gold Meritorious Patron
The White House.gov petition is not on track to receive the required signatures, due simply to people not knowing about it.

It's too bad this wasn't a better coordinated activity; one that should have gotten more media coverage.

I'm quite certain millions would sign on to it, if only they knew of its existence.

There's a lesson to be learned here.
 

Sindy

Crusader
The White House.gov petition is not on track to receive the required signatures, due simply to people not knowing about it.

It's too bad this wasn't a better coordinated activity; one that should have gotten more media coverage.

I'm quite certain millions would sign on to it, if only they knew of its existence.

There's a lesson to be learned here.

I agree with you. It would take a huge effort to push it to completion.

Two things:

1) People have said that contacting our government reps may be more effective

2) I'm still willing to be part of a greater effort. There is still time. It could not just be me. It would take many of us to work on it and I simply cannot be the organizer of it but I would go out and get signatures and awareness as well as promote it online.
 
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secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
To complete the quote from Gibney's article:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0412-gibney-scientology-20150412-story.html#page=1

There is ample precedent for the revocation of tax-exempt status: It happens more than 100 times per year. There is also an important Supreme Court ruling that addresses the religious issue. In 1983, the court upheld a decision revoking the charitable status of a religious college, Bob Jones University, because it forbade interracial dating. The court stated in Bob Jones University vs. the United States that the "government has a fundamental, overriding interest in eradicating racial discrimination in education ... which substantially outweighs whatever burden denial of tax benefits places on [the university's] exercise of their religious beliefs."

This deals with an appeal raised by Bob Jones after the case against them was heard.

If you find out how the case was raised against Bob Jones in the first place then you follow the same procedures to raise a case against CoS. One person might do it. Perhaps a petition is not the best way. Perhaps Gibney has provided all the necessary information and all you need to do is send it on in the right format to the right office following all the legal guidelines.

I have a rule in dealing with officials: try to make it easy for them.
 

Veda

Sponsor
To complete the quote from Gibney's article:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0412-gibney-scientology-20150412-story.html#page=1



This deals with an appeal raised by Bob Jones after the case against them was heard.

If you find out how the case was raised against Bob Jones in the first place then you follow the same procedures to raise a case against CoS. One person might do it. Perhaps a petition is not the best way. Perhaps Gibney has provided all the necessary information and all you need to do is send it on in the right format to the right office following all the legal guidelines.

I have a rule in dealing with officials: try to make it easy for them.

Bob Jones is a religious school. The court decision applied only to religious schools not to Churches.

If no effort is going to be made to delineate Scientology's cynical use of religious cloaking, and that cloaking is left unchallenged, and even forwarded by adopting Scientology's religious cloaking lingo - "parishioners," calling the Sea Org a "religious order," etc. - then revocation of tax exemption will be a long shot.
 

Dreamdweller

New Member
I gladly agree. I watched a lot of all the craziness that the Scientology went through with the IRS with all the moronic lawsuits.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
Bob Jones is a religious school. The court decision applied only to religious schools not to Churches.

If no effort is going to be made to delineate Scientology's cynical use of religious cloaking, and that cloaking is left unchallenged, and even forwarded by adopting Scientology's religious cloaking lingo - "parishioners," calling the Sea Org a "religious order," etc. - then revocation of tax exemption will be a long shot.

The court decision applied in the case quoted to a school not to an orphanage or a church but I don't see what difference it makes. They are all 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organisations. Every case is no doubt deal with on its own merits but the principles governing tax-exemption are as far as I know the same all over the US.

Edited to add that Gibney points out that this exemption has nothing to do with belief but with practices.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The court decision applied in the case quoted to a school not to an orphanage or a church but I don't see what difference it makes. They are all 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organisations. Every case is no doubt deal with on its own merits but the principles governing tax-exemption are as far as I know the same all over the US.

"Applies only to religious schools not to churches..."

The fight to revoke Scientology tax exemption, IMO, must be done in tandem with the exposure of Scientology's fraudulent religious cloaking.

An examination of the meaning of the terms mind-control cult and destructive cult, the difference between a cult/destructive cult and a genuine Church, the Scientology program to stigmatize the use of the word cult, its systematic corrupting of academia by instituting and supporting "New Religious Movement Studies", and its gradual psychological conditioning of the public to accept Scientology's language for itself, need to be reviewed.

During its early days Scientology did not claim to be a Church.

The question is, "If Scientology did not consider it advantageous to pose as a Church, would it do so?"

Does anyone doubt that Scientology would abandon the religion angle overnight if it became a liability and no longer forwarded Scientology?

The Germans and others have it right. Scientology is a psychological and political operation.

Time needs to be taken to - tactfully - explain these things.


life-scientology-page1.jpg

1968
 
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Northern Shewolf

Patron Meritorious
Please, pretty please all members in 'good standing' of ESMB and you newbies and lurkers who care. please send email & snail mails both to your state's Senators and House representatives asking to have this IRS exemption revoked!!!
Please follow Blanky's good example on his post of 10 April.
JUST DO IT!
Shewolf:yes:
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
"Applies only to religious schools not to churches..."

The fight to revoke Scientology tax exemption, IMO, must be done in tandem with the exposure of Scientology's fraudulent religious cloaking.

An examination of the meaning of the terms mind-control cult and destructive cult, the difference between a cult/destructive cult and a genuine Church, the Scientology program to stigmatize the use of the word cult, its systematic corrupting of academia by instituting and supporting "New Religious Movement Studies", and its gradual psychological conditioning of the public to accept Scientology's language for itself, need to be reviewed.

During its early days Scientology did not claim to be a Church.

The question is, "If Scientology did not consider it advantageous to pose as a Church, would it do so?"

Does anyone doubt that Scientology would abandon the religion angle overnight if it became a liability and no longer forwarded Scientology?

The Germans and others have it right. Scientology is a psychological and political operation.

Time needs to be taken to - tactfully - explain these things.

I entirely agree; the French have gone even further than the Germans and condemned CoS as a criminal conspiracy.

But if Gibney is right, and he strikes me as a man who means what he says, anyone in the US can create any kind of weird belief system and call it a church. The religious cloaking adopted by CoS is fraudlent but legal as it is aimed at members and potential members not at the IRS.

The IRS are concerned with what happens to the funds raised by a non-profit "church", how they are spent, and if it breaks the law in other areas.

As far as I am concerned churches are all equally nutsy and manipulative and bad for the human mind but the American constitution gives Americans the right to believe in whatever they want. It doesn't give a church the right to spend tax-exempt money on motorcycles, private chefs, PIs and other perks or to use slave labour. As I understand it.

If there are 100 cases a year where tax-exempt status is withdrawn it ought to be easy enough to find out the reasons why. But how do you get the IRS to act?
 

Veda

Sponsor
I entirely agree; the French have gone even further than the Germans and condemned CoS as a criminal conspiracy.

But if Gibney is right, and he strikes me as a man who means what he says, anyone in the US can create any kind of weird belief system and call it a church.

And when it's done by a commercial enterprise that operates on the model of a destructive mind-control cult - which has more in common with 1960s Communist China then with any Church - it might be a good idea to remind people of that, rather than ignore that and acquiesce to its wish to be regarded as a genuine religion and a "Church."

The religious cloaking adopted by CoS is fraudulent

Sounds like a major act of fraud. Don't you think it's worthy of being mentioned and described?

but legal as it is aimed at members and potential members not at the IRS.

Have you read the IRS closing agreement?

Religious cloaking is aimed, primarily at the "wog world." The mind-control system functions with no need of religious cloaking and, in its internal activities, Scientology Inc.'s religious cloaking is irrelevant. Once a few documents are signed as a protective measure, there is no religious cloaking in sight, just an occasional obligation to repeat the protective PR line of "religion" "Church," and "my religion" when in situations where "wogs" might be watching.

The IRS are concerned with what happens to the funds raised by a non-profit "church", how they are spent, and if it breaks the law in other areas.

It's likely that the IRS is reluctant to bring to the attention of the general public, or before Congress, that it was cowed by a criminal enterprise and, possibly, blackmailed by one.

None of us are know exactly what the "IRS is concerned with" re. Scientology. Something very peculiar occurred that led to the IRS caving. Almost a billion dollars in back taxes and fines was forgiven. Does the IRS want that investigated?

As far as I am concerned churches are all equally nutsy and manipulative and bad for the human mind

Sorry, but Churches are not all equally bad, and Scientology only pretends to be a Church and would never have identified itself as a Church if it had not been for the benefits afforded by doing so.

You're letting your general dislike of churches lead you to a place where you're - unintentionally - forwarding some of Scientology's PR lines. This is not a criticism. Angles are hard and pointy and stick out and easy to trip over.

but the American constitution gives Americans the right to believe in whatever they want.

Does the Star Spangled Banner start playing at this point?

This is not so much about the beliefs of Americans as it is about the abuse of the Constitution and of the law by a Destructive Cult. Ordinary criminals play the system in much the same manner.

It doesn't give a church the right to spend tax-exempt money on motorcycles, private chefs, PIs and other perks or to use slave labour. As I understand it.

It's a little more complicated than that.

If there are 100 cases a year where tax-exempt status is withdrawn it ought to be easy enough to find out the reasons why. But how do you get the IRS to act?

How to get them to act? First, educate the public as much as possible. The areas of address are the dubious IRS deal, Scientology's tax payer funded outrageous behavior, religious cloaking, and Destructive Cultism.

Over the last several decades, Scientology has been working hard to erase the idea of Destructive Cultism from our minds, and the term Destructive Cult from our vocabulary. Have they succeeded?
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've tried to push for people to sign the White House petition but Tony Ortega and Jeffrey Augustine have a much better suggestion over on his website today. Check out that page for details.

Still, the White House petition is doing pretty good in numbers compared to the numerous other petitions, which shows a lot of interest by the general public. That's not a bad thing, so I don't think it's a total waste of time.

Link to more info:
http://tonyortega.org/2015/04/13/if...xempt-status-its-time-to-get-real/#more-21822
 
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