Rhythmic Sweep of the Dial

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Steve published my comment:
# Dictionary definition — Paul Adams 2010-08-22 06:30
Jim, you quote: The American Heritage Dictionary online defines “rhythm” as: Movement or variation characterized by the regular recurrence or alternation of different quantities or conditions.

I think that definition means exactly and only the same as "Movement or variation characterized by the regular recurrence or [regular] alternation of different quantities or conditions." Thus I disagree with your opinion in this area, which depends on "alternation" and not "regular alternation."

Paul​
And Jim responded. No-one else of the faithful there commented on the matter. Jim said:
# RE: Dictionary definition — Jim Logan 2010-08-22 16:58
Paul,
Rhythmic has been interpreted according to some sort of musical definition in the 'three swing' arbitrary. I'm a musician and have studied rhythm. I play drums, it's my thing.

I can tell you from a musical perspective there is 'regular', as in metronomic and there is 'regular' as in say, rubato. Music, if it's alive, 'breaths'. Just like the FN.

What would constitute regular? Is two enough to be a pattern? It certainly is musically if you know anything about music. You've missed the whole point if you are going to quibble over the meaning of 'regular'. Read the LRH refs again, especially Arbitraries.

# RE: Dictionary definition — Jim Logan 2010-08-22 17:03
Paul,
What constitutes 'regular'? How many swings establish a 'pattern'?

As a musician, I can play a bar of two, three, four or eighty seven. It's still 'rhythm', no matter the duration and 'regularity' of alternation.​
I'll just toss in the beginning of Wikipedia's article on Rhythm, not that it's likely to make any difference over there. :)

Excerpted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm:
Rhythm (from Greek ῥυθμός – rhythmos, "any regular recurring motion, symmetry"[1]) is a "movement marked by the regulated succession of strong and weak elements, or of opposite or different conditions." [2] While rhythm most commonly applies to sound, such as music and spoken language, it may also refer to visual presentation, as "timed movement through space."[3]​
EDIT: I've said this before in this thread, but I'll repeat it. I think a lot of the trouble stems from Hubbard's silly use of the word "rhythmic" in his "definitive" 1978 definition, and all the conniptions people go through to try and match reality to that arbitrary of his rather than simply note it's a stupid definition.

Paul


F/N was called, also, a "free needle."

Free. Try that definition to see how it fits. :D
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah. Sometimes it's so fleeting that the electrons don't even make it to the needle before it turns off. :)

Again, I think it comes from another of Hubbard's arbitraries: that when something "EPs" it F/Ns. I don't have a problem with something big F/Ning, but when the pc is a caved-in mess and is borderline rested and the TA's high and the needle stuck and you're trying to dig him out little bit by little bit and *any* win is acceptable? No way.

Paul


I agree. That is an arbitrary.

Eventually everything will F/N. Eventually. Having to F/N something right there in the session, pretty much one action cycle at a time, is also an arbitrary.

All this talk about F/N makes it SO IMPORTANT, whereas it it the pc, his/her interests, responses, and indicators that are important. The meter is but a tool that can be used and misused.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
Make More $$$

Unless someone else mentiones it earlier in the thread (I don't have time to read all the posts right now) if you think about it has a lot of potential to make more money for the church.

Potentially...

1) Sessions will be longer.

2) More red tags

3) More review auditing

4) More incomplete cycles thereby needing to purchase more auditing

Also think about the PC in session who knows about this "new rule" -introverting and thinking "damn it I didn't get the 3 swings"

Think about the internal debating within one's own mind and all the potential "rollbacks" that will lead to more handling in Qual.

So if you think about it this just reinforces the truth.

DM is a genius!!!

Rd00
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
F/N was called, also, a "free needle."

Free. Try that definition to see how it fits. :D

I hate to say this but...

I have to especially since there is reference by musicians, and we all know how much "skill" Hubaard had as a musician.

Anyway here it is...

Even choppy across the dial can be a rhythmic sweep

Even sloppy across the dial can be a rhythmic sweep

Even an accentuated "beat" across the dial can be a rhythmic sweep

Auditor: Thank you very much your needle is dancing

PC: I want to attest to Space Jazz Clear!!

Rd00
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes. But Hubbard's [incorrect] full "definitive" definition was "a rhythmic sweep of the dial at a slow even pace of the needle. No other definition is correct."

Paul


Another bullshit definition.

There's nothing slow about a TA F/N needle.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Another bullshit definition.

There's nothing slow about a TA F/N needle.

I have to wonder what prompted Hubbard to come up with that definition at that time, especially with the "all my prior definitions suck" rider. I mean, some of the other ones were OK. About the only correct words in this "definitive" definition are "needle" and "dial."

Paul
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
It's a real shame that Ron didn't use entrail reading instead of this pseudo-science hokum. I'd have loved to see his 'definitions'.

Zinj
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
Perhaps a different viewpoint here -- as a PC, I knew when I had reached the end of a process and was FNing* -- it would piss me off when the auditor (Class VI) would sit there for a bit, looking at the meter before he called the FN - I'd be thinking I'M DONE - CALL THE DAMN FN! I was always surprised that he didnt' see THAT response, apparently. As for the examiner, it was always a "dare" for me - daring the examiner to not call the FN. So in my opinion, waiting for 3 swings would result in an ARC break needle for me.

* Note, as stated elsewhere, the EPs of all of my sessions was always "Okay, I got the point, now I'm bored with this process" thought to myself, and then I'd spit out the EP of the level -- actually believing it to be true at that point.
 
I agree. That is an arbitrary.

Eventually everything will F/N. Eventually. Having to F/N something right there in the session, pretty much one action cycle at a time, is also an arbitrary.

All this talk about F/N makes it SO IMPORTANT, whereas it it the pc, his/her interests, responses, and indicators that are important. The meter is but a tool that can be used and misused.

Beautifully put.


Mark A. Baker
 

TR'SIN

Patron with Honors
Assuming for the moment that the 'needle phenomena' mean *anything*, there is no evidence that they mean what Ron said they mean.

It's entrail reading.

Zinj

I have had my fair share of entrail reading Zinj and I have to admit you always amaze me with the amount of Scientology you have insight to - I mean having never been IN. :D
 
I have had my fair share of entrail reading Zinj and I have to admit you always amaze me with the amount of Scientology you have insight to - I mean having never been IN. :D

He spends a lot of time on esmb reading the works of the better informed. :whistling:


Mark A. Baker :D
p.s. just kidding :coolwink:
 
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