Riverside Police BAN Anonymous from protesting at Gold Base

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
There is no 'anonymous movement'
There are some people who, from within the collective nonentity of anonymous, do people kind of things. Anonymous is not your army. It's your popcorn bucket
Zinj

There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology.
Smitty
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
reply to EastAnon

Smitty, that's like saying the ocean will stop moving soon.
No. Your comparison is a fallacy.
The small part of anonymous that is currently protesting has their mind on bringing down the cult. As soon as that happens, lots of them will move on, or not. It's just persons doing something.

I think we agree that they are persons doing something.

Smitty
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology.
Smitty

Nope. There is an 'anonymous venue' that has given rise to various individuals from (and from outside the actual) venue protesting Scientology. It is not a 'movement'. The more 'organized' it becomes, the less it's related to the anonymous venue in any case.

To a large extent, the various bits and pieces of 'anonymous' protest are no longer 'anonymous' per se. Some never were, but were drawn to the protest through the 'viral marketing'.

Zinj
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
Nope. There is an 'anonymous venue' that has given rise to various individuals from (and from outside the actual) venue protesting Scientology. It is not a 'movement'. The more 'organized' it becomes, the less it's related to the anonymous venue in any case.
To a large extent, the various bits and pieces of 'anonymous' protest are no longer 'anonymous' per se. Some never were, but were drawn to the protest through the 'viral marketing'.
Zinj

Yep. There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology. I have spoken with a number of them at length. It is a movement. You brought up 'organized', I did not.
Smitty
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Yep. There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology. I have spoken with a number of them at length. It is a movement. You brought up 'organized', I did not.
Smitty

You spoke to individuals. They do not speak for 'anonymous', even if they think or say they do.

Zinj
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
You spoke to individuals. They do not speak for 'anonymous', even if they think or say they do.
Zinj

I never stated that they did, you just claimed that they did not.
Zinjifar, master of strawman arguments.
Smitty
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I never stated that they did, you just claimed that they did not.
Zinjifar, master of strawman arguments.
Smitty

"There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology. I have spoken with a number of them at length"

Zinj
 

ScudMuffin

Silver Meritorious Patron
There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology.
Smitty

Nope. There is an 'anonymous venue' that has given rise to various individuals from (and from outside the actual) venue protesting Scientology. It is not a 'movement'. The more 'organized' it becomes, the less it's related to the anonymous venue in any case.

To a large extent, the various bits and pieces of 'anonymous' protest are no longer 'anonymous' per se. Some never were, but were drawn to the protest through the 'viral marketing'.

Zinj

Yep. There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology. I have spoken with a number of them at length. It is a movement. You brought up 'organized', I did not.
Smitty

Yes and no. Yes in that people protest anonymously, no in that Anonymous as a group per se don't protest scientology. When people say 'We're Anonymous' that's all they really mean, they're remaining Anonymous.

All anonymous ever was was a concept (and a joke), the people are just random people who post anonymously on the net and, in this example, peeps who protest scientology anonymously. Also people have done the same, in V masks, to counter protest WBC, someone was photographed on the last night of drinking on the tube partying anonymously (people know how to have fun), someone caught the eye of the camera at Nelson Mandela's birthday party, people have also stood around at an anime/cosplay convention in london holding signs & flyers with shock site web links on them.

It wasn't 'Anonymous' that declared war on scientology, it was originally people that posted on the /b/ (random) board of 4chan. Anonymous can't be defeated because all it is really is an idea, and doesn't really exist. You can always reffer to groups of 'anonymous', whether that be /b/tards, protesters, muck stirrers, people who write into newspapers, whatever, but you can't really reffer to it as 'Anon is X' as there will always be a chunk of anonymous people that don't fit the cattagory. Bit like that bloke you saw on the bus, that bird you saw at the cinema a couple of rows down, everyone is anonymous to someone and that's all anonymous really is: people remaining anonymous.
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
"There is an anonymous movement against corporate scientology. I have spoken with a number of them at length"
Zinj

Zinjifar perhaps has had too many beers this evening or perhaps he is afflicted by a disorder where he feels compelled to frivolously debate ex-scientologists, of which he is not, in an attempt to prove something to himself.

Smitty
 

klidov

Silver Meritorious Patron
I confess,

I get a bit bored with legalise when debating the terminology used to describe a concept, or idea.

O.K.-I'll make it simpler.

Once we have identified something (an idea, a concept, an item), must we have circular arguments about words and their meanings?

(After all, is not the topic/subject what we should remain focused on ?).

I mean, I love you guys, but f*ck me! I think we have this same debate in every discussion that has to do with Anon! :p
 

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
reply to ScudMuffin

Yes and no. Yes in that people protest anonymously, no in that Anonymous as a group per se don't protest scientology. When people say 'We're Anonymous' that's all they really mean, they're remaining Anonymous.

Thanks, ScudMuffin. I don't consider Anons a group, but there are anonymous protesters who certainly can be considered as a movement. I have talked extensively with a number of them to understand what their objectives are.
Smitty
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes and no. Yes in that people protest anonymously, no in that Anonymous as a group per se don't protest scientology. When people say 'We're Anonymous' that's all they really mean, they're remaining Anonymous.


Well said.

Anybody who choses to be anonymous at protests or on blogs, etc would be wise not to say "I'm part of Anonymous" or "a member of Anonymous" and restrict their conversation to "I protest anonymously", etc. That's the actual truth, but the cos and it's corrupt agents are not necessarily interested in truth- they are more likely interested in using the law to ruin people as their history as shown.

There's a sneaking suspicion that the cos will continue these attempts at framing anonymous protesters. Although they may not stand a chance in court- remember that Hubbard wrote about using lawsuits to harass and financially ruin others. Don't give them the opportunity. Say "I protest anonymously", keeping it singular.
 

feline

Patron Meritorious
Well said.

<snip>

There's a sneaking suspicion that the cos will continue these attempts at framing anonymous protesters. Although they may not stand a chance in court- remember that Hubbard wrote about using lawsuits to harass and financially ruin others. Don't give them the opportunity. Say "I protest anonymously", keeping it singular.

Excellent advice, KnightVision. My hope is that it is heeded.
 

ScudMuffin

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thanks, ScudMuffin. I don't consider Anons a group, but there are anonymous protesters who certainly can be considered as a movement. I have talked extensively with a number of them to understand what their objectives are.
Smitty

To be honset it changes person to person (might want to make notes all you OSA lurkers out there). I'm one of the reformists, if CoS can be reformed fine, reform it. If it tears itself to pieces in the process then so be it, but I'd rather not see the amount of people in there 'orphaned' all of a sudden. If we have to get it banned outright then fine. It can't continue in it's current form (about the only thing we can really agree on).
 
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