Rome Ideal Org

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, I'm from Belgium, and based on the stuff I've observed up until now I would say that there simply aren't a lot of Scientologists here. The previous church was in a pretty insignificant building in an outskirt of Brussels, and the Dianetics center (now closed) was hardly ever open. I would say that there simply wasn't enough cash to be extorted.

Yes, I think that's likely the case with Rome, also. DM has to have the big glitzy buildings.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Yes, I think that's likely the case with Rome, also. DM has to have the big glitzy buildings.

Yep I think this is correct. There are virtually no public in Brussels or Rome to get the donations from. I am surprised about DC but I suspect that it was the desire from DM to do it NOW and the importance of having an impressive looking building for the congresscritters and their staff to refer to.

All of this is intriguing to me I must admit - the running costs, property taxes etc (bearing in mind that the cofs in EU does not get a break on the property taxes like it does in the US) have got to be enormous. Far beyond the capacity of the orgs in Brussels and Rome to support. The "Ideal org" in Copenhagen according to pics I was sent recently is unused and shabby - which means that not only is costing money just being there but it is losing value daily. I have heard similar reports about other ideal orgs.
 
Yep I think this is correct. There are virtually no public in Brussels or Rome to get the donations from. I am surprised about DC but I suspect that it was the desire from DM to do it NOW and the importance of having an impressive looking building for the congresscritters and their staff to refer to.

All of this is intriguing to me I must admit - the running costs, property taxes etc (bearing in mind that the cofs in EU does not get a break on the property taxes like it does in the US) have got to be enormous. Far beyond the capacity of the orgs in Brussels and Rome to support. The "Ideal org" in Copenhagen according to pics I was sent recently is unused and shabby - which means that not only is costing money just being there but it is losing value daily. I have heard similar reports about other ideal orgs.

It's my understanding that the real estate holdings are owned by a shell corporation more than likely owned solely by Miscavige and a few attorneys to hide the money trail. Therefore the cults pays all the expenses out of members pockets and Miscavige owns the assets, until be slowly sells them off and pockets the cash into off shore bank accounts
 

Bird

Patron
Shell corporation is correct. Ideal Orgs as get away money is a possibility, although this pile of cash is really a bit conspicuous.

Then again, DM isn't a garden variety criminal.

No why else would DM want to insulate this large amount of capital from corporate scientology? Is he preparing for CSI property to be seized?

I would if I were him...
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Shell corporation is correct. Ideal Orgs as get away money is a possibility, although this pile of cash is really a bit conspicuous.

Then again, DM isn't a garden variety criminal.

No why else would DM want to insulate this large amount of capital from corporate scientology? Is he preparing for CSI property to be seized?

I would if I were him...

I have to disagree.

Acquisition of real estate would be the definition of illiquid assets. The ideal org properties cannot be turned to cash quickly - multi-milion dollar properties do not sell swiftly.

Miscavige already has access to immense amounts of unaccountable liquid asses - the IAS reserves and turning those untraceable and liquid funds into a fixed asset easily attached is not the strategy of someone setting up some sort of get away money.

Personally I believe Miscavige is exhibiting hubris to complement his already established colossal level of stupidity.
 

Bird

Patron
Well I wasn't thinking about selling the buildings but rather selling the corporations that own the building. Two very different things. That would explain why the ideal orgs are outside of the regular corporate structure.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Yep I think this is correct. There are virtually no public in Brussels or Rome to get the donations from. I am surprised about DC but I suspect that it was the desire from DM to do it NOW and the importance of having an impressive looking building for the congresscritters and their staff to refer to.

All of this is intriguing to me I must admit - the running costs, property taxes etc (bearing in mind that the cofs in EU does not get a break on the property taxes like it does in the US) have got to be enormous. Far beyond the capacity of the orgs in Brussels and Rome to support. The "Ideal org" in Copenhagen according to pics I was sent recently is unused and shabby - which means that not only is costing money just being there but it is losing value daily. I have heard similar reports about other ideal orgs.

Yep I think this is correct. There are virtually no public in Brussels or Rome to get the donations from. I am surprised about DC but I suspect that it was the desire from DM to do it NOW and the importance of having an impressive looking building for the congresscritters and their staff to refer to.

All of this is intriguing to me I must admit - the running costs, property taxes etc (bearing in mind that the cofs in EU does not get a break on the property taxes like it does in the US) have got to be enormous. Far beyond the capacity of the orgs in Brussels and Rome to support. The "Ideal org" in Copenhagen according to pics I was sent recently is unused and shabby - which means that not only is costing money just being there but it is losing value daily. I have heard similar reports about other ideal orgs.

I believe this may have been in scn promo even, that Brussels was near
the European parliment and maybe courts, and thus a swish building to lobby from. Obviously DC would be the same, and with regard to Rome, according to the OP someone from a vatican university or something was in attendance or speaking.

Looks like this is about lobbying and political manoevering.

Having visited the Brussels Dianetic centre, which wasn't open, this wouldn't do the job.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Well I wasn't thinking about selling the buildings but rather selling the corporations that own the building. Two very different things. That would explain why the ideal orgs are outside of the regular corporate structure.

Well yeah but it still is a matter of cash flow at that point. Nobody buys a corporation that owns buildings where there is no return. Think about it for a moment.

First of all the value of the corporation that owns the building or buildings is a mixture of the worth of the building and the amount of revenue the buildings can generate through their tenants. The ideal orgs do not generate income - they consume. So that leaves only the liquidation of the asset by selling.

DM has already made one of the biggest financial faux pas in real estate. Scientology bought major properties at the top end of a very bullish market that has since collapsed. The buildings are worth a lot less than was paid for them. Those which have not actually been renovated and which are "devolving" are an even bigger liability.

If the worth of the corporation IS the worth of the buildings then buying the corporation is the same as buying the building. Anyone buying the corp or the building is going to have to know what sort of cash flow they are looking at , what their ROI is going to be.

The huge problem with big real estate packages is that unless they have proven tenants with a proven income they are incredibly hard to sell and the sales process takes many many months or years.

That makes these properties worthless as "getaway money"

Miscavige already has control of hundreds of millions of dollars. This move makes no sense at all as a hedging strategy.

Much as people on here, myself included, think DM is a total prat, this behavior demonstrates that he does believe in what e is doing. He may be demented but that just makes him a more fanatical scientologist.

And that is good news because that guarantees he is going to fuck this up royally.
 
Well yeah but it still is a matter of cash flow at that point. Nobody buys a corporation that owns buildings where there is no return. Think about it for a moment.

First of all the value of the corporation that owns the building or buildings is a mixture of the worth of the building and the amount of revenue the buildings can generate through their tenants. The ideal orgs do not generate income - they consume. So that leaves only the liquidation of the asset by selling.

DM has already made one of the biggest financial faux pas in real estate. Scientology bought major properties at the top end of a very bullish market that has since collapsed. The buildings are worth a lot less than was paid for them. Those which have not actually been renovated and which are "devolving" are an even bigger liability.

If the worth of the corporation IS the worth of the buildings then buying the corporation is the same as buying the building. Anyone buying the corp or the building is going to have to know what sort of cash flow they are looking at , what their ROI is going to be.

The huge problem with big real estate packages is that unless they have proven tenants with a proven income they are incredibly hard to sell and the sales process takes many many months or years.

That makes these properties worthless as "getaway money"

Miscavige already has control of hundreds of millions of dollars. This move makes no sense at all as a hedging strategy.

Much as people on here, myself included, think DM is a total prat, this behavior demonstrates that he does believe in what e is doing. He may be demented but that just makes him a more fanatical scientologist.

And that is good news because that guarantees he is going to fuck this up royally.

Miscavige is not the sharpest tool in the shed, the little fella is building an empire in the only way he knows how. The empty large buildings are making up for the small being he is, both literally and spirituality. He is banking on the morons in the cult to continue to slave themselves to death to support it megalomania and to pay the expense for these buildings. The members of the cult do not understand their purpose in the cult. Even Marty claims he received very little auditing or Scientology services in his first twenty years as a slave in the cult, his primary focus as a slave was to protect Miscavige's power and fortune just as the current slaves are doing now. In Marty's case it seems he is still too stupid to understand he was played as a chump for twenty plus years, since he is still trying to protect Hubbard
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Dox, please, or it's just wishful thinking.

Or is this a gullibility test?

This is not a test. I am not able to say, as I promised not to, but it's a very dedicated religious man who lives in the area and has taken an interest in watching the cult activities.

Summary: Eyewitness is not capable of lying, nor would he have reason to.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Straight from the horses mouth. Golden Age of tech is supposed to solve everything. I'm not sure what they're going to think when more and more Ideal Orgs fail and continue to fail. There has to be another excuse when the time comes.

Here is a very good bet.

Bet on the failure of IDEAL ORGS to be blamed on workable tech not working because......

TECH CANNOT GO IN UNTIL ETHICS GOES IN

And, that is why the undercut for all of mankind, the ultimate why that will make planetary Clearing a reality is announced to all Scientologists at a worldwide event by COB.

DM: "SUPERPOWER! And that, my friends, is why you may have been asking yourself why there are not more OT's around. That is why and now YOU can handle your case forever and go stably OT for the first time in endless trillions of years. And this time, my friends, when you go OT you will stably remain OT.....for eternity!!!"(12.5 hour standing ovation by true believers)

But the tech will be soooooooo powerful that it can only be delivered in partial rundowns, not all at one time. Because.....

The SuperPower is so super-powerful that people get blown out of their minds with just a little bit and it is like trying to handle case over a persistent floating TA. The case is still there even though it is miles away in release. So, the handling is...

They get the rundown in sections to ensure that ALL of the charge is taken off.

The machinery stuff is at the end, so it's possible to START the rundown as soon as it is paid for! (big event, big news, big reg cycles)

And whenever a person falls on their face in the future, they will need to go back and re-do the SuperPower section that is still unflat, kind of like 6-month checks to keep their ethics in until they can do it themselves.

Loyal Scientologists will have great difficulty going to sleep the night they hear that amazing news. Between the tears of joy and the sobs of relief, they will worry if they ethical enough to deserve to pay for their Superpower.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Personally, I think the rationale behind the IAS-sponsored Ideal Orgs is something to do with the new, very (and only) important Expansion stat: Number of square feet/metres of scientology owned space.

It's how they think you win a game.
You must occupy the opponent's space.

More importantly, this is how they make themselves (and Dave) right about "more expansion in the last 5 years than in the previous 50".
The expansion they're talking about is floor-space!

PS: The outpoint, Dave, is that one could hardly call the Ideal Orgs "occupied space".
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron


Here is a very good bet.

Bet on the failure of IDEAL ORGS to be blamed on workable tech not working because......

TECH CANNOT GO IN UNTIL ETHICS GOES IN

And, that is why the undercut for all of mankind, the ultimate why that will make planetary Clearing a reality is announced to all Scientologists at a worldwide event by COB.

DM: "SUPERPOWER! And that, my friends, is why you may have been asking yourself why there are not more OT's around. That is why and now YOU can handle your case forever and go stably OT for the first time in endless trillions of years. And this time, my friends, when you go OT you will stably remain OT.....for eternity!!!"(12.5 hour standing ovation by true believers)

But the tech will be soooooooo powerful that it can only be delivered in partial rundowns, not all at one time. Because.....

The SuperPower is so super-powerful that people get blown out of their minds with just a little bit and it is like trying to handle case over a persistent floating TA. The case is still there even though it is miles away in release. So, the handling is...

They get the rundown in sections to ensure that ALL of the charge is taken off.

The machinery stuff is at the end, so it's possible to START the rundown as soon as it is paid for! (big event, big news, big reg cycles)

And whenever a person falls on their face in the future, they will need to go back and re-do the SuperPower section that is still unflat, kind of like 6-month checks to keep their ethics in until they can do it themselves.

Loyal Scientologists will have great difficulty going to sleep the night they hear that amazing news. Between the tears of joy and the sobs of relief, they will worry if they ethical enough to deserve to pay for their Superpower.


Some will eat it up. But that sounds scarily accurate.:duh:
 

Bird

Patron
I guess Mick is right. Ok, so maybe I should stop trying to analyse DM's move as if he was somehow rational.

Hubris, expansion stats and lobbying power, all of which could have been achieved at a reasonable cost by a good PR / Lobbying firm. But maybe DM though that his Ideal Orgs were going to make a profit on top of that.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
I have to disagree.

Acquisition of real estate would be the definition of illiquid assets. The ideal org properties cannot be turned to cash quickly - multi-milion dollar properties do not sell swiftly.

Miscavige already has access to immense amounts of unaccountable liquid asses - the IAS reserves and turning those untraceable and liquid funds into a fixed asset easily attached is not the strategy of someone setting up some sort of get away money.

Personally I believe Miscavige is exhibiting hubris to complement his already established colossal level of stupidity.

How about this scenario Mick:

Miscavige needs a reason to get people donating. He doesn’t want them donating for services, because he knows the orgs cannot deliver and the public will probably ask for their money back. So, he gets them to donate for something that has no exchange but is very visible, i.e. a nice, big, flashy, expensive building.

The public fall over themselves to hand over their cash and he uses some of it to buy a building. There are no accounts available so who knows where all the money goes?

He then stands up at the regular ‘events’ and uses the purchase of buildings as an example of ‘expansion’. He focuses on this because he knows there is no other stat he can use that will convince anyone.

So now, he looks like a hero (to the most gullible at least) and has made a bit of cash on the side, cash which only he controls as there are no independent audits of the CoS finances. Then, realising that he’s only got a limited amount of time left in charge before someone feels his collar, he takes out loans with all this lovely real estate as collateral. Even in today’s depressed markets, these are good properties and he can raise a few hundred million.

No one else knows about these loans (apart from the crooked shysters doing the arranging) and the money goes into the bank account of some obscure corporation in the cayman islands and the purchase of some large secluded estate and diamonds and gold in a country with a corrupt police force and no extradition treaty.

Just speculation of course.

Axiom142
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Remember that all donations to IAS go directly into David Miscavige's private account with no promise of any 'exchange'.

Zinj
 
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