Ron The War Hero

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
It works? What a bunch of cobblers.

Here's a little exercise

1) Go through DMSMH and gather together all the stated benefits and results of Dianetics as laid out by Hubbard. For extra credit list the ones he claims to have seen personally

2) Take your list and see if you have seen those results.

Perfect recall? Nope

Improved health? Nope

Live Longer? nope

Its twaddle.

Personally I think Mick's been kicked in the head too many times playing Rougeby!

Anyone with 1/2 an erg of thetanism knows all you gotta do is:

Say to an Scio or Ex-Scio "Go to the moneyment you first heard of Scio - scan through the incidental 'till now - tell me what happened?"

Guarantee you will turn on misemotion, etc., repeat until you can't stand it any longer!

Get a full refund!

Alan
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Actually Mick your "test" is unsound. All your exercise demonstrates is that LRH claims are twaddle. Absolutely no argument there. His claims were hyperbolic, totally over the top.

However, "workability" is a different matter entirely from Hubbard's claims about dianetics.

Try this "test":

A. Run dianetics on a pc.

B. What happens?

C. Iterate it.


I've run this "test" numerous times myself. My pcs have found it useful and I have also. Ergo, it is "workable".


Mark A. Baker

Nope not even close. This is "Texas Sharpshooter" testing.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Personally I think Mick's been kicked in the head too many times playing Rougeby!

Anyone with 1/2 an erg of thetanism knows all you gotta do is:

Say to an Scio or Ex-Scio "Go to the moneyment you first heard of Scio - scan through the incidental 'till now - tell me what happened?"

Guarantee you will turn on misemotion, etc., repeat until you can't stand it any longer!

Get a full refund!

Alan

:yes:
 
S

songbyrd

Guest
Mick, when I said it worked, I was speaking from personal experience, and it did work for me, I cant deny the wins and betterment of my life from receiving Dianetics/Scientology auditing.

And why is that? Maybe its because of faith, but when I was green I had no faith in its workability and it still worked. WHY?
 
What do you mean by work? It no doubt had some subjective effect on you. It worked for me st first, if that is the meaning. But I don't think I'd get the same result now. It was a novelty and uplifting at first, but now it falls flat. By its nature, it won't have zero effect, but what worked once doesn't work all the time. A crude anology would be when someone says to me "Your shoes untied." I don't automatically look at my shoes anymore.
I realizr that's a bad analogy, but my personal belief is that the tech has a diminishng return for most people. You can say it is a one step forward and two steps backwards effect; not at first, but eventually.
The point is that it doesn't work all the time for everybody. That means it is not really based on any natural laws.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Mick, when I said it worked, I was speaking from personal experience, and it did work for me, I cant deny the wins and betterment of my life from receiving Dianetics/Scientology auditing.

What you have not done is separate out the reasons WHY you had the wins you did.

If you read the "success stories" from other cults and even MLMs they ALL sound the same song as the one you have made. I am not denying, in any way, that you have had experiences of betterment. What I think you may be missing is the essential ingredient called growing up.

Most people get better, more mature, more settled as they grow older. Most people (not all but most) get into cults when they are young, when they are going through massive changes, when we are both introspective and wildly emotional. Their first experience at dealing with themselves is via the mechanism of the cult itself (in our case - Scientology). Just because we, like most people grew up - doesn't mean that Dianetics or Scientogy was the reason for us growing up - our contemporaries around also grew up - without the benefit of the cult.

Praising Dianetics for your own efforts is a little like lauding the efforts of the builder who built your home with the window facing east for making the sun rise every morning.

And why is that? Maybe its because of faith, but when I was green I had no faith in its workability and it still worked. WHY?

what do you mean by "worked'?

Do you have perfect recall of everything that happened to you in your life?
 

dr3k

Patron with Honors
I have an ashtray sitting on my desk, once a day I pet it and say "This ashtray keeps burglars away" since the day I got the ashtray and began this ritual till now..no one has robbed my house. This is a perfect example of specious reasoning (what Mick is talking about). Case in point - prove to me (or try through deductive reasoning/logic) that there is NOT some mystical force guaranteeing that my home will not be burglarized due to this ashtray and I will do whatever you want (sexually/otherwise.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I have an ashtray sitting on my desk, once a day I pet it and say "This ashtray keeps burglars away" since the day I got the ashtray and began this ritual till now..no one has robbed my house. This is a perfect example of specious reasoning (what Mick is talking about). Case in point - prove to me (or try through deductive reasoning/logic) that there is NOT some mystical force guaranteeing that my home will not be burglarized due to this ashtray and I will do whatever you want (sexually/otherwise.

Geez! Even burglars keep stats - the fact is there is a mystical force you surround and permeate your property with - its called "Junkism." - Junkism is proving to others that you or your things are worthless......:D
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Geez! Even burglars keep stats - the fact is there is a mystical force you surround and permeate your property with - its called "Junkism." - Junkism is proving to others that you or your things are worthless......:D

Interesting that some others use less solid means of deterring burglars; such as copious clouds of cigar smoke, making it like a Vorlon atmosphere. :whistling: :eyeroll:
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
I was too when I first read it.

The first "tape play" I ever heard was "The Story of Dianetics and Scientology" where Ron made, basically, the claims that sold me to start to become a Scientologist:
  1. He was crippled and blinded because he "tried to occupy the same space" as some shrapnel
  2. He went to Oak Knoll Naval Hospital and did extensive research on war veterans and came up with the fundamentals of Dianetic procedure
  3. He not only used these techniques to cure other veterans of all kinds of things, but he cured himself of being blind and crippled from his war wounds using Dianetics.
<snip>

Wasn't there an hcob - coulda' been a pab? - written by msh titled "The Way Ron Works" (I think) wherein she basically supported his claims or similar? Have to admit I was suckered by that one in a big way as well. Been about 30 yrs so could just be my recall is all snookered up, too, but I associate it in some way.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Or, "The work was free. Keep it so."

:confused2:

This is still used by Freezone Scientologists, who sigh with the deep meaning of it all, forgetting that it was written in the aftermath of Hubbard having distributed his hoax "Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics," the contents of which "proved" that the Russian Commies (and their sympathizers in America) were vehemently anti-Dianetics and Anti-Scientology.

Some people noticed that Hubbard's writing style was similar to that of the "Russian Textbook" (a.k.a. the 'Brainwashing Manual'), and Hubbard quickly came up with several "explanations" to make the problematic embarrassment of his having (blatantly) lied to Scientologists, and the possible realization that he might be lying about other things too, just disappear, or at least seem unimportant.

Part of this was a statement that included the above, "The work was free, keep it so."

"Keep it free" meant keep it out of the hands of the Commies, who had wanted Dianetics and Scientology so badly, that they'd even stolen a copy of the mysterious 'Excalibur' back in the 1930s!
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is still used by Freezone Scientologists, who sigh with the deep meaning of it all, forgetting that it was written in the aftermath of Hubbard having distributed his hoax "Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics," the contents of which "proved" that the Russian Commies (and their sympathizers in America) were vehemently anti-Dianetics and Anti-Scientology.

Some people noticed that Hubbard's writing style was similar to that of the "Russian Textbook" (a.k.a. the 'Brainwashing Manual'), and Hubbard quickly came up with several "explanations" to make the problematic embarrassment of his having (blatantly) lied to Scientologists, and the possible realization that he might be lying about other things too, just disappear, or at least seem unimportant.

Part of this was a statement that included the above, "The work was free, keep it so."

"Keep it free" meant keep it out of the hands of the Commies, who had wanted Dianetics and Scientology so badly, that they'd even stolen a copy of the mysterious 'Excalibur' back in the 1930s!

Oh, the old "Excalabur" chestnut again.

Apparently, Gerry Armstrong reports he saw a copy of the manuscript in Hubbard's papers at Hubbard's hideout. :omg:

Back in late 1968, Hubbard directly told me the Excalabur story was a complete fabrication in order to create some mystique about his persona. (Not in those exact words). I had no reason to doubt what Hubbard said.

Now it turns out he may have either been lying, or had become confused about the legend he had created about himself. :confused2:

Either way, doea anyone out there have anything they can contribute to this story?

DS
 

GoButtonIsBlowButton

Patron with Honors
Another interesting but new chestnut...

Ron the stereotypical Navy guy?

In Jeff Hawkins's excellent manuscript on his times in the SO and Pubs (in another thread), Chapter 9 has an incompletely explained little bombshell. It's around 1980, and Ronni is working on some fiction......

But most of our attention was on getting the campaign launched. Nancy had her team of researchers and surveyors who were out every day. We had added a Public Relations member to the team, a young lady named Beth, who was working out how to get out publicity releases on Dianetics when the time came. She also got roped into a “confidential” proofreading project, which turned out to be Hubbard’s Mission Earth manuscript. He had completed Battlefield Earth, which was being prepared for publication, and this was his next work, a massive ten-volume science fiction series. Beth helped on the proofreading several hours a day at ASI, and came back increasingly disturbed. She was shocked by the graphic, and repeated, descriptions of gay oral sex in the book, and was appalled that such writing was coming from the Founder of a religion. She didn’t last long, and in fact soon decided to leave staff.

One did not criticize Hubbard.

======================================================

[This next is just a good jab at DM and those awful photos and films-GB]

One day, I got a strange phone call. After I picked up the phone and said hello, a strident and intense male voice came on the line.

“If I hear another report of any of your staff nattering about LRH Tech Films, they, and you, will be immediately sent to the RPF. Have you got that?”

I managed to stammer “Yes, Sir.” There was a click on the other end.

I had just had my first conversation with David Miscavige.

The “Tech Films” were Hubbard’s Technical Training Films. He had scripted a series of short, 20 to 30 minute films teaching various points of Scientology “technology,” from how to operate an E-Meter, to how to conduct an auditing session. Each film had a story line – characters who went through some drama to illustrate a point of technology. He had then directed the filming of a number of these scripts himself at his confidential location. Like his earlier photo shoots on the ship, they were strictly amateur hour. The sets were hastily thrown together, something a high school drama department would be ashamed of. The actors were all amateurs – staff thrown into costume for the occasion – and they would stumble their way through Hubbard’s overcooked dialogue.

But of course it was like the Emperor’s New Clothes all over again. No one wanted to admit that they didn’t see Hubbard’s genius in every detail. It was obvious to anyone with two eyes that they were pathetically amateur, but no one was willing to say so. One of my staff, Linda, had been so impolitic as to make a disparaging comment about the quality of the films within earshot of some other staff. The resulting “Knowledge Reports” had gotten to Miscavige, who took it as a personal affront. After all, he had been the “cameraman” on many of these early films. Hence the call. I took Linda aside and explained the facts of life to her. If one expected to survive in the world of Scientology, one did not say anything negative about the films, no matter how obvious their flaws.

============

Dart... any thoughts on Ron's, ahem, florid sword-swallowing descriptions?
 
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