Quick ( I hope) question here, please: I've heard that LRH claimed to have (at least) a doctorate in science and/or engineering. Did he ever mention which school(s) he got that/those degree(s) from and what year(s)? Does anybody know any specific information about his claim of academic credentials? Does his official Church biography name his graduating class(es)?
Ron was a genius. OK, brilliant. Ok, above average intelligence.
- Thread starter Kha Khan
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Free Being Me
Crusader
Elcon's college grades are a lulz fest. He failed atomic physics. His "Doctorate of Philosophy" was self-awarded through Sequoia University which he secretly owned. Sequoia University was a shady diploma mill.
Scientology founder L Ron Hubbard exposed as a 'fraud' by British diplomats 30 years ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sed-fraud-British-diplomats-30-years-ago.html
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There's another recent thread where this is discussed and so far, some dox are being posted:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...of-LRH-in-quot-Ability-quot-magazine-Jan-1959
DagwoodGum
Squirreling Dervish
Yup, after doing it several times and not increasing yer knowingness, then you're doing it wrong, hell, what was LRon's claim for increased IQ as related to auditing time? 10? 1? point per hour? Gah. Just another thing to run over and over again in the big sting, abstract and meaningless until ya take the bait.
I am going by what I have read of the many stories peoples have had to tell and some well researched materials.
Did you ever do another later on? Just curious, as it would seem a good way to show how well 'it's' working used as a moral boost to back up the initial indoctrination process, dunno as never went there.. probably not making much sense anyhow
No, I've never done one since then. I remember it had gone up from 131 (Catholic H.S.testing) to 148 but I attribute that to having a much larger vocabulary as a result of my $cientology training as well as getting away from an oppressive upbringing where I'd been knowingly and intentionally lied to as to my fathers true identity.My relatives pretended the dude my mother ran off with was my real dad. Not an ideal recipe for a happy childhood, but one thing I would say is that the phoney love bombing & all was just what the doctor ordered for me - at the time!
Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
He also claimed to have attended Princeton. What he in fact attended was the Princeton School of Military Government, which was a U.S. Military school set up in buildings loaned to them by Princeton University to train soldiers for the occupation of Japan. It was never affiliated with that University, and not even staffed by Princeton Faculty. That's like someone working for the lock company claiming that they are on staff at "Yale".
Mick Wenlock
Admin Emeritus (retired)
Hubbard had no academic qualifications. He attended college for two years and failed to graduate. The only "degree" he was ever "awarded' was from a Diploma mill. He had no engineering qualifications . He did, however, have skills in sailing and navigation.
Thank you to all who responded to my question about Ron's alleged education, and my apologies that I didn't make my question clear. I was aware that LRH's claims to high academic credentials were phony--I did read Lawrence Wright's "Going Clear" and checked the Wicked Wiki on him (LRH, not Wright). I probably should have mentioned that prior to my question. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought LRH's purported credentials might actually be real.
What I am actually trying to find out is the official Church propaganda line on Doctor Hubbard's credentials. Normally a person's biography will list something like, "Graduated University of Georgetown in 1946 with a BS and awarded D.Sc. in nuclear physics from Harvard in 1952," or some such. It would be remarkable (worthy of being remarked upon) if his school and graduation year were not prominently mentioned early in any biography. (An example of "what you don't say is part of what you say.")
When I was "in" back in the mid-70's, we certainly proclaimed his purported credentials far and wide, but I never noticed that no specific school or graduating class was ever mentioned. So that's my actual question: What alma mater and graduating class does the Church of Scientology claim as the young LRH's?
Does anybody know? Is there any such claim made, or are the origins of his academic credentials left vague?
What I am actually trying to find out is the official Church propaganda line on Doctor Hubbard's credentials. Normally a person's biography will list something like, "Graduated University of Georgetown in 1946 with a BS and awarded D.Sc. in nuclear physics from Harvard in 1952," or some such. It would be remarkable (worthy of being remarked upon) if his school and graduation year were not prominently mentioned early in any biography. (An example of "what you don't say is part of what you say.")
When I was "in" back in the mid-70's, we certainly proclaimed his purported credentials far and wide, but I never noticed that no specific school or graduating class was ever mentioned. So that's my actual question: What alma mater and graduating class does the Church of Scientology claim as the young LRH's?
Does anybody know? Is there any such claim made, or are the origins of his academic credentials left vague?
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
You're being silly. Address the comments, not the person.
Re-read the Rules Of Conduct here.
1. Treat others with respect.
You are to respect every other user on the board despite any personal, religious and political differences. The following will not be tolerated:
Personal insults
Ad hominems
Threats or promotion of violence
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2-Board-Rules
Pro-tip: If I were an OSAbot trolling here the one thing I'd be sure to do would be to annoy people until they lost control of their good senses and started personally insulting me. Then, I'd just leave it to the Moderators to apply the Rules of Conduct.
Wise up and use some common sense, willya!
I appreciate the reminder.
In this recent back and forth over Egypt's gaffe, I came away with the impression that there are basically two ends of the spectrum here. On one end there is a desire to draw out and explore the pro-Scientology views in a civil format where the rest of the world can observe.
On the other end of the spectrum the goal is primarily justice. The church has ruthlessly suppressed opposing opinion for decades and now finally the Ex community has the opportunity to be THE balance and they are missioned to protect others from harm.
These two approaches are not necessarily wrong or exclusive, they go back and forth and overlap, but there can be an emphasis. It is easier to stifle debate with criticism than it is for debate to stifle criticism if the party being criticized has been chased out of the building.
If criticism wins the day then those who want to debate are denied a forum. As the church declines we can expect to find people who glommed onto Scientology outside of the authoritarian environment of the church. They may not have any or much experience or be able to relate to any of the abuses that Exes rant about. To them it is all still bright and shiny, like the quarters I used to hand to curious Raccoons in the local pet store. If you smack them thinking they will learn the lesson to not be such fools the only lessen they take away is that you are a jerk.
We are not going to get In-Scientologists to debate here unless there is some very extraordinary circumstance, like they have a note from OSA or something. That leaves everything else and some of it will be pretty weird. People are asking in these threads, "What is the mental process that initially leads to a person getting into Scientology?" When it comes here in the raw we should reveal it with well directed questions. That is why this is an open forum isn't it? It has been eons since I was a Scientology virgin - reading books without ever having been to a mission or org. Now that I've been through the grinder, I want to see the string pulled on this mindset - so please don't be so quick to chase them away.
We will roast Scientology and the powers that be, trolls and lunatics should be policed, but I also welcome an honest intellectual challenge.
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
My take on your comment is that the Tone Scale is arbitrary and relative. The more I reassess Scientology the more I find it is riddled with generalities and classifications that pigeonhole and limit lines of reason.
My father was fond of saying, "Sometimes very smart people do very stupid things". I would add that sometimes very stupid people do very smart things. Like Ethics, The Tone Scale as it is used in Scientology organizations becomes another tool of control and it should be held suspect.
LRH and the people around him were all well versed in Science of Survival and the Tone Scale and still its inevitable product was DM and The Hole.
Hypatia
Pagan
A large part of that is the idea Hub proffers of throwaway human beings.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
The truth about what the COS claims for Hubbard's academic credentials happens to be exactly the same as every single other claim the COS has ever made and continues to make about anything.
They claim whatever them can get away with at the moment.
For example, the early books' claim that the author was a "doctor and nuclear physicist", after thoroughly being debunked, were erased like a engram in later editions. Hubbard and his well-funded propaganda apparatus then expended substantial resources and marketing efforts in the ensuing decades to assert a litany of not as easily debunked proclamations and jingles about Hubbard's mastery of so many disciplines & arts. Some examples are:
"Mankind's Greatest Friend"
"Source"
"Commodore"
Ron the Musician
Ron the Humanitarian
Ron the Photographer
Ron the Writer
Ron the Movie Maker
Ron the Explorer
Ron the Botanist
Ron the Bigamist
Oh, wait, I don't think the COS published that last one. They much prefer to show winning photos of Dr. Hubbard.
Especially photos of Ron the Happy Husband" wearing navy costumes and waving to his adoring fans with one hand--while the other affectionately holds Mary Sue Hubbard's hand just before he framed her for Operation Show White felonies that sent her away to federal prison. That reminds me. . .
Ron the Buddha, Mettreya and Betraya'
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Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
Good post with a lot of good points. I think of the two poles you mention on ESMB, the "justice" end has strongly predominated here for the simple reason that it's what we all pretty much unanimously agree on.
The more people here learn about how the CofS operates and treats its staff and parishioners - by reading threads, watching videos and talking to others here - the more angry and disgusted they generally become with the abuses that are perpetrated and the keener they are to see those abuses come to an end by whatever means are necessary.
For my part, I don't think the CofS will be brought to an end, but I do think it can be reduced considerably in power and influence and that is already happening. As I said in a different thread, my prediction is that it will shrink to a rump and stay there.
I also agree that discussing the Tech is important in order to try and gain a clearer and more accurate perspective than the one we came here with. I am one who does feel they have had some benefits from what they did in Scn, although there were some big disappointments as well, and in retrospect I wish I'd been more aware of the other options which were open to me at the time.
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TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
The impulse to "Stamp it out" is clearly paramount but there is an opportunity being missed by not drawing some of this dialogue out further and dissecting it in public. I hope we are capable of doing that without being heavy handed or conciliatory. Otherwise we are just preaching to the choir and I would like to spice it up a bit. Can we engage these people or just shoot on sight?
The Riddler: Don't kill him! If you kill him, he won't learn nothin'!
Churchill
Gold Meritorious Patron
The truth about what the COS claims for Hubbard's academic credentials happens to be exactly the same as every single other claim the COS has ever made and continues to make about anything.
They claim whatever them can get away with at the moment.
For example, the early books' claim that the author was a "doctor and nuclear physicist", after thoroughly being debunked, were erased like a engram in later editions. Hubbard and his well-funded propaganda apparatus then expended substantial resources and marketing efforts in the ensuing decades to assert a litany of not as easily debunked proclamations and jingles about Hubbard's mastery of so many disciplines & arts. Some examples are:
"Mankind's Greatest Friend"
"Source"
"Commodore"
Ron the Musician
Ron the Humanitarian
Ron the Photographer
Ron the Writer
Ron the Movie Maker
Ron the Explorer
Ron the Botanist
Ron the Bigamist
Oh, wait, I don't think the COS published that last one. They much prefer to show winning photos of Dr. Hubbard.
Especially photos of Ron the Happy Husband" wearing navy costumes and waving to his adoring fans with one hand--while the other affectionately holds Mary Sue Hubbard's hand just before he framed her for Operation Show White felonies that sent her away to federal prison. That reminds me. . .Ron the Buddha, Mettreya and Betraya'
You forgot about
Ron the Madman
Ron the Bigamist
Ron the Satanist
Ron the Pill-Popper
Ron the Chain Smoker
and... From my original 1949 copy of Triton, dedicated to Sara, the 2nd wife he "never" had,
Ron the Hypnotist.
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Terril park
Sponsor
He commanded a USS naval ship. What requirements does that take?
George Layton
Silver Meritorious Patron
It seems like I read somewhere that you are required to shell at least one island of a foreign country.
TheOriginalBigBlue
Gold Meritorious Patron
And that there is an elite class that can make that determination.
Gib
Crusader
The truth about what the COS claims for Hubbard's academic credentials happens to be exactly the same as every single other claim the COS has ever made and continues to make about anything.
They claim whatever them can get away with at the moment.
For example, the early books' claim that the author was a "doctor and nuclear physicist", after thoroughly being debunked, were erased like a engram in later editions. Hubbard and his well-funded propaganda apparatus then expended substantial resources and marketing efforts in the ensuing decades to assert a litany of not as easily debunked proclamations and jingles about Hubbard's mastery of so many disciplines & arts. Some examples are:
"Mankind's Greatest Friend"
"Source"
"Commodore"
Ron the Musician
Ron the Humanitarian
Ron the Photographer
Ron the Writer
Ron the Movie Maker
Ron the Explorer
Ron the Botanist
Ron the Bigamist
Oh, wait, I don't think the COS published that last one. They much prefer to show winning photos of Dr. Hubbard.
Especially photos of Ron the Happy Husband" wearing navy costumes and waving to his adoring fans with one hand--while the other affectionately holds Mary Sue Hubbard's hand just before he framed her for Operation Show White felonies that sent her away to federal prison. That reminds me. . .Ron the Buddha, Mettreya and Betraya'
Here are a couple of scientologists who make a living doing background checks. One would think maybe they would have the cog to do a background check on LRH.
It's quite amazing how things get hidden.
This is their home page: http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/
This is their good works page (Social Betterment tab) all promoting the front groups:
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_crime.asp#
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_drugs.asp
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_morals.asp
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_human_rights.asp
Gib
Crusader
Here are a couple of scientologists who make a living doing background checks. One would think maybe they would have the cog to do a background check on LRH.
It's quite amazing how things get hidden.
This is their home page: http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/
This is their good works page (Social Betterment tab) all promoting the front groups:
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_crime.asp#
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_drugs.asp
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_morals.asp
http://www.baxterresearch.net/BaxterWeb/social_betterment_human_rights.asp
Gib replying to hisself,
wouldn't it be a kick if many anon's (or folks not connected to the Baxters or free of the COS fair game) would request a background check on LRH to the Baxter Research Group.
Gib replying to hisself,
wouldn't it be a kick if many anon's (or folks not connected to the Baxters or free of the COS fair game) would request a background check on LRH to the Baxter Research Group.
Yes, it would most definitely be a kick - for the Baxter Research Group, that is. I'm certain they'd love to have a little extra income to donate to the "church".
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