Sci-Fi Movie: Lathe of Heaven

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
While browsing for some old Sci-Fi movies I haven't seen yet, I found "Lathe of Heaven". Interestingly, it has quite a few "Scientological" ideas in it.

Let me begin with ...
"Evil psychiatrist",
"Greatest good for the greatest number",
"World without war",
"World without hunger".

How many ideas and references can you spot in this movie from the late 70's? :coolwink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8VRbaVNvSA
 
coooool...

i read leguin's book when it came out

scifi people often like to refer the to the genre as "idea fiction" and religious, spiritual and philosophic allegory is a primary form of "SF". thus, one often finds "SF" that one might suspect has been influenced by scientology and ron's work. while this may very well be so in many instances it is also often coincidental in that to a large extent the virtues of ron's work comes from it being based on universal truths that are not entirely unfamilar

if you look at heinlein's "stranger in a strange land" you might, as i do, believe it to be very strongly influenced by hubbard. then perhaps heinlein's finest classical allegory "island in the sky" does not seem to hve anything of hubbard to it

then star wars...

hubbard's work is all over hollywood. i think the metaphysics of star wars are knowingly an amalgam of the judeo-christian and scientology
 

looker

Patron Meritorious
I was fascinated by Lathe of Heaven. I first saw it on PBS . Its a bit weird, but the scientific computer equipment is corny yet marvelous. Great architecture designs. It was shot in Dallas/Ft Worth Texas

Kinda creepy because when people dream some are not always good dreams and it would be a nightmare to wake up to that reality. :) There are people who worry about that kind of thing.
 
Last edited:

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
I don't really see Scientology ideas in Lathe of Heaven (though I've not seen the film, just read the book). Utilitarianism and utopianism don't exactly originate with Hubbard.

While an interesting enough LeGuin book, I still prefer "The Disposessed".
 

Queenmab321

Patron Meritorious
I don't really see Scientology ideas in Lathe of Heaven (though I've not seen the film, just read the book). Utilitarianism and utopianism don't exactly originate with Hubbard.

While an interesting enough LeGuin book, I still prefer "The Disposessed".

The Dispossessed is amazing!
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
It seems I'm the only one who sees too many too obvious parallels between this movie and some hubbardian drivel. So be it. I apologize for posting Off Topic. :)
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
It seems I'm the only one who sees too many too obvious parallels between this movie and some Hubbardian drivel. So be it. I apologize for posting Off Topic. :)

Mr. Nobody, no worries. It reflects that fact that Hubtard used and twisted multiple ideas that were floating around the speculative fiction community for his own ends. You are sensitized to them, so you picked up on them.

IMO, it also illustrates two more things that are of interest on this board:

1. Humans see patterns where there are none. (This is also closely linked to the statistical fallacy that correlation is not causation). This is part of what keeps people in Scientology even when the wins are so sporadic or fade with time.

2. Hubbard borrowed a lot of stuff. Almost all of in fact, but from so many sources it's hard to trace sometimes. Then he twisted it - e.g. from greatest good for the greatest number of people to the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. Since he effectively controlled or was uniquely identified with several of those dynamics, he promoted the consideration of his own welfare from 1 person in billions to at least one dynamic in 8, probably by my estimation, 3 or 4 (3,4,7, and probably 8) dynamics in 8. Not to mention he effectively quashed the power of the second dynamic). Dynamics 5 and 6 are not high on most people's radar, so you can see how he basically made all of an SO member's life all about him.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Mr. Nobody, no worries.

Hey I don't worry, not at all. I've been watching at least 5 Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies every day in January, searching for ideas for sound-effects and background tracks that are better than the ones I already have recorded. I wasn't determined to scan them for any "Hubbardianisms", it just came up - and what made me post it here, in this sub-section of the board, was that I've NEVER heard or read the phrase "greatest good for the greatest number" in a non-Hubbardian context. So for me, it was more of a "pointer-to-context" issue than a "pattern-recognition" one. :biggrin:



It reflects that fact that Hubtard used and twisted multiple ideas that were floating around the speculative fiction community for his own ends. You are sensitized to them, so you picked up on them.

IMHO, in the fields of music and creative arts, basically everybody begs/steals/borrows from everybody, but most artists do it very moderately. After all, who wants to be a plagiarist?

In other words: Who wrote "Boom Boom"? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_PF4L470w

IMO, it also illustrates two more things that are of interest on this board:

1. Humans see patterns where there are none. (This is also closely linked to the statistical fallacy that correlation is not causation). This is part of what keeps people in Scientology even when the wins are so sporadic or fade with time.

2. Hubbard borrowed a lot of stuff. Almost all of in fact, but from so many sources it's hard to trace sometimes. Then he twisted it - e.g. from greatest good for the greatest number of people to the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. Since he effectively controlled or was uniquely identified with several of those dynamics, he promoted the consideration of his own welfare from 1 person in billions to at least one dynamic in 8, probably by my estimation, 3 or 4 (3,4,7, and probably 8) dynamics in 8. Not to mention he effectively quashed the power of the second dynamic). Dynamics 5 and 6 are not high on most people's radar, so you can see how he basically made all of an SO member's life all about him.

:thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
It seems I'm the only one who sees too many too obvious parallels between this movie and some hubbardian drivel. So be it. I apologize for posting Off Topic. :)

no...

not at all...

this is good conversation; if you put vincent van gogh and pablo picasso on the same paris street corner to paint what they see you get two very different paintings. both leguin and hubbard are gazing on similar themes...
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Hey I don't worry, not at all. I've been watching at least 5 Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies every day in January, searching for ideas for sound-effects and background tracks that are better than the ones I already have recorded. I wasn't determined to scan them for any "Hubbardianisms", it just came up - and what made me post it here, in this sub-section of the board, was that I've NEVER heard or read the phrase "greatest good for the greatest number" in a non-Hubbardian context. So for me, it was more of a "pointer-to-context" issue than a "pattern-recognition" one. :biggrin:





IMHO, in the fields of music and creative arts, basically everybody begs/steals/borrows from everybody, but most artists do it very moderately. After all, who wants to be a plagiarist?

In other words: Who wrote "Boom Boom"? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn_PF4L470w



:thumbsup:

“Lesser artists borrow; great artists steal.” Igor Stravinsky

Pablo Picasso.
“Good artists copy. Great artists steal.”

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
“Lesser artists borrow; great artists steal.” Igor Stravinsky

Pablo Picasso.
“Good artists copy. Great artists steal.”

http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/

Oh Terril, that hurts... It's not the 1st time I've heard/read that quote and it probably will not be the last time either, but that doesn't make it more true.

Just tell me, did Victor Wooten steal or borrow this Stevie Wonder song or did he just give his own, unique interpretation?

Here it is, Victor (with his looper nowhere to be seen but well heard) :coolwink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eynnYLXW3Fo
 
Top