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scientologist attempting to "handle" Marty's wife.

HelluvaHoax!

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Hi Helluva,

Can you show me that letter? Who was that Class VIII?

As for me, I am fully aware who Ron Hubbard was. Thanks to the internet, and to my own observations.

As for that Class VIII pointing fingers at Miscavige only, I think it is wrong because neither Hubbard or Miscavige did this alone...no...they got a lot of help from the Annas and the Martys of the world...or the SO I shall say...a lot of staff helped plenty. And Marty is getting like we say in Spanish a full of teaspoons of his own soup.


Hi dianaclass8,

The post I made was in response to your comment that: "This woman with the dark glasses Anna Stilo is the perfect example of Miscavology."

Veda responded by posting "an example of Hubbardology", followed by Hubbard's letter (seen below):

Having read many hundreds of similar opinions about fair game and other criminal acts in the CoS being "Miscavology", I eventually lost my patience with this kind of misattribution of source.

Miscavology, in this case of a woman showing up at Rathbun's front door to harrass his wife, is pure unadulterated Hubbardology. He wrote the policy on it.

I cannot conceive of why anyone would characterize these fair game tactics as Miscavology when it is well known and abundantly documented that Hubbard regularly ordered this type of anti-social behavior and much worse (see Paulette Cooper story)

Squirrelbusters is Fair game all the way.

Who wrote the church's Fair Game policy that gave holy scriptural orders to harrass squirrrels, critics and sp's? It wasn't David Miscavige. Why would you think that it was? Hence my comments puzzling about how anyone who could read would not know that Hubbard was the source.

So, let me ask you directly. Wasn't L. Ron Hubbard the source of the sociopathic and criminal policy known as Fair Game? And are the Squirrelbusters not following Hubbard's Fair Game Policy?


Here's an example of Hubbardology:

From: http://www.ronthenut.org/northrup.htm

Sara Northup to Paulette Cooper. Sara Northup was the second wife of L. Ron Hubbard.

This letter was found amongst the many pages of stolen documents retrieved during the FBI raids of July 1977.


Mar 20, 1972

Dear Paulette,

Thank you for sending the photostat of the column concerning Ron.

I really think he is a terribly destructive man - and mad as a hatter.

Last fall a couple of men came here to my home on Maui (Hawaii). They looked like undertakers' assistants. They were very pale - wore cheap black suits, white shirts, dark ties.

They told me they were "agents", but they wouldn't tell me what, or who, they were agents for. They wouldn't show me any identification. They had a long list of personal questions to ask me and they had a "warning" to give me. They told me that people posing as reporters might try to get me to talk about Ron but I would be in trouble if I said anything at all to them.

They wanted to come in the house but I wouldn't let them. I told them I wouldn't speak with them unless they came with identification. They said they'd "check with headquarters and be back this evening". I never saw them again.

My older daughter [Alexis Valerie] (who is Ron's daughter) was home over the holidays. When she arrived back at college there was a man who had been waiting for her in the local inn. He had been there 3 or 4 days.

She asked him to come to her Dorm to talk with him. He told her he was Ron's agent. He had several typewritten pages of "statements" to read her. It had obviously been written by Ron.


It said to her that she was illegitimate - that I was a "street-walker" he had hired as a combination housekeeper-secretary. He said that he fired me and that I came back to his doorstep "destitute and pregnant" and that out of his great heart he had taken me in to see me "through my trouble".

He said that when Alexy was a "Toddler" she was a cute little thing so he took her and a cat, "Motor Boat", along on his wanderings "as pets" for 2 years.

[Alexy was 15 months old when we were divorced]

He also said that during World War II I was a Nazi spy. (He used to tell people that I was a Communist spy who received orders from Moscow by telepathic control). I don't know why he had me change sides.

He said that I had been "used by those in control to discredit Mr. Hubbard." He said he forgave me but it made him very sad.

The paper was signed, "Your good friend, J. Edgar Hoover". The agent told Alexy he was an F.B.I. agent. He would not allow her to inspect it - would only read it to her. At the end he asked her if she had any questions.

She was both angry and shocked that Ron could do such a thing. She told him - "the agent" - it was self-explanatory and asked him to leave. She has had a feeling that her father was a rather romantic figure. These paranoid ravings were frightening to her. She had not realized how sick he was before this incident.

I was furious that he would try to hurt Alexy - I wrote him a long letter telling him what I thought of him for inflicting his madness on Alexy but before I sent it Alexy called and begged me to do nothing. She said, quite rightly, that he was crazy enough to do anything. She asked me to just be thankful that we had escaped contact through all these years.

I really don't know why this recent interest on his part.

Last summer Alexy was in England and dropped by St. Annes Hill [Saint Hill Manor?] - she thought perhaps she could share dinner with him. She was naturally curious about him. She didn't see him.

Maybe he thinks she's going to sue him for back child-support? Maybe he thinks she's going to demand a portion of his estate? Maybe - - - ? I just don't know. Maybe he just resents the fact that I left him.

I hope that when you win your court case, as you must, that you collect court costs and reparations.

His sickness is not just destructive, it is also contagious. I hate to think how many weak people have been harmed by this man.

The day of my divorce from Ron was like a day of rebirth for me. I feel that Alexy and I escaped from a death-in-life situation.

I am really afraid of him. He has such control over his people - and so many of them - that even from England he could do something to hurt Alexy. You have no idea the lengths to which he can go (or, maybe you do?).

These visits from his "agents" are just warnings. The two who came to see me told me as much. It is really frightening not knowing what he might do next.

I had hoped that he had forgotten us - put us out of his mind. Perhaps he thinks I will testify against him in one of the many court cases?

Forgive this rambling letter. I never tell anyone that I was married to Ron - so I have no one to tell about these weird visits. I know you are concerned about Ron so you have the recipients of my meanderings on the subject.

I'm sorry that I never met you. Please do write and tell me what happens with your case. Ron has the advantage of money - but you have rationality on your side. Surely that must be more important."


Eight months later the covert operation to frame Paulette Cooper for bomb threats was initiated.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Can you show me that letter?

-snip-

I'm in a bind as I can't, at this time, reveal sources, but I can confirm that the letter is quite real.

And Chris Owen has a long history as an honest researcher.

I will add that this letter is only a small sampling of the years long harassment of Sara Northup and her daughter by Hubbard and his agents.

Hubbard was obsessed with Sara. From his letters to the FBI from the 1950s claiming (falsely) that she was a communist, to his rambling on about Sara to Virginia Downsborough in late 1966/early 1967 during the time that he was supposedly researching "OT 3," to a statement during a rare 1968 interview that he "never had a 2nd wife," to his assertion that Sara was a Russian secret agent (Sara Komkovadamanov) in his 1969 confidential 'Intelligence Actions, Covert Intelligence Data Collection', to his panicked reaction to his biological daughter innocently visiting St.Hill, in the early 1970s, mistakenly believing her father was there.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Hi dianaclass8,

The post I made was in response to your comment that: "This woman with the dark glasses Anna Stilo is the perfect example of Miscavology."

Veda responded by posting "an example of Hubbardology", followed by Hubbard's letter (seen below):

Having read many hundreds of similar opinions about fair game and other criminal acts in the CoS being "Miscavology", I eventually lost my patience with this kind of misattribution of source.

Miscavology, in this case of a woman showing up at Rathbun's front door to harrass his wife, is pure unadulterated Hubbardology. He wrote the policy on it.

I cannot conceive of why anyone would characterize these fair game tactics as Miscavology when it is well known and abundantly documented that Hubbard regularly ordered this type of anti-social behavior and much worse (see Paulette Cooper story)

Squirrelbusters is Fair game all the way.

Who wrote the church's Fair Game policy that gave holy scriptural orders to harrass squirrrels, critics and sp's? It wasn't David Miscavige. Why would you think that it was? Hence my comments puzzling about how anyone who could read would not know that Hubbard was the source.

So, let me ask you directly. Wasn't L. Ron Hubbard the source of the sociopathic and criminal policy known as Fair Game? And are the Squirrelbusters not following Hubbard's Fair Game Policy?

THAT! :thumbsup: ^^^^^^^

Miscavige is doing NOTHING at all that wasn't first clearly laid out, defined and carefully described by L. Ron Hubbard. Hubbard wrote these as "standard per policy tactics" in dealing with any "enemy", "critic", "antogonistic entity" or even just any person or group who disagrees with Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard.

Simply, in REAL TERMS, Hubbard made it quite clear that in HIS Scientology organization, and in ANY "per policy Scientology organization", that no disagreement of any sort will be tolerated. And, all such instances are to be carefully investigated, addressed, and handled. If the disagreement does not "adjust to agreement" with the "handling", despite extensive and varied Division 5 "Qual corrective actions", then the person gets routed to Division 1, Department 3, and again, if he or she fails to "cognite" and "adjust ones reality accordingly", then the eventual but definite final outcome will be/is expulsion, declare and disconnection, with the very real result that such disagreeable people (potential "problems" for the continued expansion and GI of Scientology) are segregated FAR from the rest of the conforming, ammenable and highly-agreeing flock/herd.

The above "flow chart" is clearly obvious by any honest reading and understanding of Hubbard's OEC volumes. And, if the person continues to cause trouble, then Division 7, Department 20, the Office of Special Affairs, will jump in to apply even MORE "standard LRH policy" with the intent and aim to do just about ANYTHING to silence the person. That is ALL "standard LRH policy", created and designed by the great mentor himself - all to "help" ensure that "Scientology succeeds".

I don't think Hubbard ever really cared that there would come a time when there would be MORE "declared SPs" than actual participating Scientologists, because he only needs a SMALL slice of the pie to keep LOTS of money rolling in.

That should seem odd to any person well-read in Hubbard's "data" (aka "nonsense"), because Hubbard makes it quite clear that ONLY a VERY SMALL percentage of any sampling of people will be "SPs" (2 1/2 percent). But that is NOT so with that group of people who have had experience and involvement with the Church of Scientology, where the percentage is MUCH higher. Of course, logic is thrown to the wind when it comes to dedicated over-indoctrinated followers of Hubbard's tripe. They can and do "make sense" out of a great deal of nonsense.

Last, Hubbard makes great noises about 1) the importance of "correct source", and especially in the upper level materials, 2) "correct assignment of ownership". Failing to understand the correct and actual SOURCE of something will result in MISOWNERSHIP of actual CAUSE. Hubbard explains that in the OT III materials when he describes WHY it is important to spot the ACTUAL source or ownership of "the charge", or it won't correctly "blow". But, that does NOT only apply to differentiating between BTs' and personal "charge". One also does THAT when one fails to notice and assign the actual true ownership of the many abuses of Scientology to the person who actually WROTE the directions, advices and policies on such things - L. Ron Hubbard. To the degree that any person continues to assign incorrect ownership and assignment of cause about all of this this (such as trying to make it "Miscavige's fault" instead of Ron's), so will that person remain ABERRATED to no small degree. At least, that is the conclusion that any honest, careful and strict reading of the "LRH tech" on the subject of "ownership", "aberration" and "charge" will necessitate.

From another Scientology "tech" view, and this makes some sense to me even now, a person cannot and does not UNDERSTAND some situation correctly to the degree that he or she fails to perceive the exact time, place, form and event of that situation. It can never "resolve" if you enter any altered time, place, form or event into the mix. When any person fails to see (confront, observe, notice) how Hubbard actually wrote and determined the exact nasty behaviors as followed by Miscavige, that person FAILS to view the actual and true time, place, form and event of the situation as regards "actual cause" in Scientology. Per the LRH theory, thus that type of person will remain "aberrated". I agree.
 
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dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
Muchas gracias for the responses. I just wanted to make sure that there were no misunderstandings that it was me the "Class VIII" who wrote e letter to Miscavige. So far, I have not addressed him publicly neither have I addressed the psychopaths that work at OSA.

It is true that Hubbard wrote some of what I would call illegal policies, simply because they go against the morals of average society and some are just plain illegal. So, OK, Hubbard has done these things. No defense.

But we have in present time an organization that continued the despicable acts and has not been stopped. Some of those who helped the present regime have become folk heroes....Marty has his 'followers' Mike's videos and writings are read by all, Ken Urquhart is now an auditor in the Independent/Freezone, Dan Koon moved on with his life and yet, many people are still prisoners inside the compound and the law is looking the other side. Hubbard is dead, Miscavige is alive and kicking.
 
A question: Could Hubbard truely see the evil he was creating with his exclusionary members only bridge? Was he blind to the suffering his many abusive policies created in the name of keeping the flock pure and moving up his rickety bridge? Was he that cruel?

If he could and did - wow. Where was he really at case wise?

However we must give Sir David the Small his due. After all (and correct me if I am wrong) he created the IAS, and with it became the cash vacume King of all beliefs.

Mimsey
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
A question: Could Hubbard truely see the evil he was creating with his exclusionary members only bridge? Was he blind to the suffering his many abusive policies created in the name of keeping the flock pure and moving up his rickety bridge? Was he that cruel?
I think that he probably did see this but never saw it as harmful or cruel. This sort of empathy may have eluded him and he already had his Justifications well in place.

If he could and did - wow. Where was he really at case wise?
My honest opinion is that Hubbard was afflicted with a bad case of Keyed-Out-Then-Crashed. I doubt that he ever attained the States he spoke of.

However we must give Sir David the Small his due. After all (and correct me if I am wrong) he created the IAS, and with it became the cash vacume King of all beliefs.
Mimsey
I don't think this is true. It was someone else who came up with the IAS idea. Mick Wenlock could probably clarify this point.
 

Random guy

Patron with Honors
What are they there to do?

HANDLE YOU

They are so amazingly manipulative.

Except this one wasn't so amazing.

An a "never-in" anon, I found myself shaking my head in disbelief at this little scene. Good in Mosey to keep calm.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Yes, great point.
But either way it is fear behind the agreement.
Loss of dreams, freedom and hopes.

Actually, this is the great secret that you stumbled onto.

And that is this:

Scientology plays to the ego. It is ego masturbation.

Some ego mechanisms are "promise of gain/threat of loss".

Hubbard was huge on this - a major button...it used him and he used it and it drove himself and others ape-shit rabid running to and fro, all push and pull, all fret and fuss.

Those last two terms, fret and fuss, get used a lot in buddhistic translations for koans, etc.

Very fitting, IMHO.
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
This sort of empathy may have eluded him

and he already had his Justifications well in place.

Are there different sorts of empathy?

There is a pattern that runs through Hubbards life of no empathy, if a person has no empathy to begin with ,has an ascension, continues the attack of any oppositions character or any comrade abandonment throughout his life and appeases present company on stage, i cant see empathy. Unless stage show personality can be called empathy.

If you have a example of Hubbard with Empathy id like to hear it.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Are there different sorts of empathy?
...snip.
There's Hubbard's patented Artificial Empathy, Fake Empathy, Imagined Empathy and, of course, the ever-popular Pretended Empathy.

My use of the phrase, "this sort of empathy", refers to the sort Mimsey asked about in the question I was answering ie: the capacity to recognize and, to some extent, share feelings (such as sadness or happiness) that are being experienced by another sentient or semi-sentient being. Someone may need to have a certain amount of empathy before they are able to feel compassion.
 
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Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
There's Hubard's patented Artificial Empathy, Fake Empathy, Imagined Empathy and, of course, the ever-popular Pretended Empathy.

My use of the phrase, "this sort of empathy", refers to the sort Mimsey asked about in the question I was answering ie: the capacity to recognize and, to some extent, share feelings (such as sadness or happiness) that are being experienced by another sentient or semi-sentient being. Someone may need to have a certain amount of empathy before they are able to feel compassion.

Thanks Panda.

I saw a documentary about the FBI flagging any hunter as a potential suspect in local homicides , a sign /trait of a psychopath, the non empathy/acknowledgement of animal suffering is on their shopping list. Hubbard managed to hide, backtrack and mask his non empathy , almost another profession to add to his list.(not on Ron the humanitarian website)
 
Don't you love those FBI profilers? I wonder if they have a murder suspects scale?

Wifes, hunters, drug addled wackos, postal employees, mafia hit men, women with pms? Can you go a half tone above - like going from a crack addled wacko to a pcp addled wacko to get a more positive suspect? Is 0.0 the victims tone level?

I seem to recall the IAS was modeled on the NRA's contributors fund - I think I read it in Jeff Hawkins blog or maybe Robert Vaughn Young's writings.

Mimsey
 
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