Scientologists and Freezone reasoning

[a original angel]

At the end of the day... IMHO the argument is ruduced down to this:

Hubbard made outrageous claims associated with Dianetics and Scientology that have never been proven to be possible and thus can be said to be outright lies, just the same as his many NOT personal achievements. Those same outrageous claims have drawn unsuspecting thousands to try it and become hooked on it in a never ending attempt to achieve those results (Have you heard Tory's and others stories concerning this?). They therefore continue along and expose themselves more and more to it, eventually leaving it (most have), and yet some others lose their minds (not simply because it was not correctly applied) because they are psychologically stuck between "can't achieve the fabulous results Hubbard claimed" and if they stop... "they'll never be spiritually free". Still others end up "Having to eat crow and admit that they've been taken, conned" which causes much silent suffering that can last a lifetime.

What's really sad about that is that out if the outrageous claims had not been held out like a carrot (bait) I (and I believe the majority) would have never gotten involved with it. Most everybody I know has some "mental baggage" but it's manageable- it's not significant enough to hinder leading a positive and effective life. So the interest in it comes from believing that the outrageous claims put forth are achievable for oneself. Thats a fiasco and fraudulently leading. Further my observations have sufficiently proven to me that the "tech" creates a dependency in it users that is hard to shake, much less even to realize that it's happened. It traps people.

No matter what advocates say or what beliefs or wins or benefits or statements of workability exist or come forth... the above reality is shared by myself and IMHO the majority of those who tried or used it.

Hi to all of you. and all of you are correct by the view point that you hold and respect.
I left Scientology 35 years or so and have not being involved with no one pro or against Scientology until a few days ago.
Before Scientology I liked mysticism after Scientology I still do.some of us fell a affinity toward it and go for it and the basic reason for that is that the inner desire to know, understand what is the inner working of our minds in the hope that if we do achieve it we will be able to be better to the degree that we know and use what we know to accomplish the above.
knowledge is the understanding which aloud one to do some thing.
most of the technology that Scientology has is a albatros because it does not deliver the ability to be, do, have. it adress the symptoms not what cause the machinery to behave like it does.( the mind) and the method to control the machinery in scientology is the erasure of the feeling of reactivity. instead of the understanding that will lead the self to have what it does not have. control of the machinery which aloud one to love and be loved or control to solve the causes of why the self is lost with in.to control what ever life or living bring to one self in a proactive way instead of reactive.
I left hoping that the OT levels will teach who ever got there this and that this was what clear and O T meant. I found that it was not.I guess that to some extent all you found that to.
there is a question that any one of you need to resolve and hopefully in a proactive manner. and this question is not for any one else but you self what do I do about my desires to improve and others to improve as well.
because if you look at what you are doing mostly is stating your position I'm right they are not and and using tour energies in that and to that degree you are off source with important desires that exist with in you self. can I gain what I need to know so that I can fix what I do not like with in my self.
I'm no guru nor I have desires to become one. I like Ron even do that he cause me much pain he did force me in to looking and finding answer which help me he is not god, nor Buddha he does belong to the category of individuals which have affected all of us and our future like it or not. learn your lessons what ever that may be for you.
I wish you all well
original angel

 

[nexus100]

Hi to all of you. and all of you are correct by the view point that you hold and respect.
I left Scientology 35 years or so and have not being involved with no one pro or against Scientology until a few days ago.
Before Scientology I liked mysticism after Scientology I still do.some of us fell a affinity toward it and go for it and the basic reason for that is that the inner desire to know, understand what is the inner working of our minds in the hope that if we do achieve it we will be able to be better to the degree that we know and use what we know to accomplish the above.
knowledge is the understanding which aloud one to do some thing.
most of the technology that Scientology has is a albatros because it does not deliver the ability to be, do, have. it adress the symptoms not what cause the machinery to behave like it does.( the mind) and the method to control the machinery in scientology is the erasure of the feeling of reactivity. instead of the understanding that will lead the self to have what it does not have. control of the machinery which aloud one to love and be loved or control to solve the causes of why the self is lost with in.to control what ever life or living bring to one self in a proactive way instead of reactive.
I left hoping that the OT levels will teach who ever got there this and that this was what clear and O T meant. I found that it was not.I guess that to some extent all you found that to.
there is a question that any one of you need to resolve and hopefully in a proactive manner. and this question is not for any one else but you self what do I do about my desires to improve and others to improve as well.
because if you look at what you are doing mostly is stating your position I'm right they are not and and using tour energies in that and to that degree you are off source with important desires that exist with in you self. can I gain what I need to know so that I can fix what I do not like with in my self.
I'm no guru nor I have desires to become one. I like Ron even do that he cause me much pain he did force me in to looking and finding answer which help me he is not god, nor Buddha he does belong to the category of individuals which have affected all of us and our future like it or not. learn your lessons what ever that may be for you.
I wish you all well
original angel

I LOVE your post, angel. Best wishes!

 

[Leon]

So you've all agreed for the umpteenth time that the tech is a crock and a waste of time and so on and so forth (yawn) and through it all behind the scenes those of us who have a better acqaintance with good workable Scientology than the lot of you togethjer simply go our way, continue to audit people, continue to see lives improve, and are happy with the results we see.

Of course (yes, yes) this is all delusional on our part, after all we are all brainwashed idiots.

Ho hum.

I wish it were different. I really do wish you guys could have had proper application of Scientology and had some (or plenty) of the benefits it can produce.

What is a proper application Scientology? It is that application that produces beneficial results of course. Like good cooking produces good delicous nutricious food. If the meal turns out inedible then the cook's "tech" was not properly applied or understood or whatever - the cook was "out tech", and that is all there is to it.

You were conned by whoever was delivering it to you. I wish it was different for you.

 

[nexus100]

So you've all agreed for the umpteenth time that the tech is a crock and a waste of time and so on and so forth (yawn) and through it all behind the scenes those of us who have a better acqaintance with good workable Scientology than the lot of you togethjer simply go our way, continue to audit people, continue to see lives improve, and are happy with the results we see.

Of course (yes, yes) this is all delusional on our part, after all we are all brainwashed idiots.

Ho hum.

I wish it were different. I really do wish you guys could have had proper application of Scientology and had some (or plenty) of the benefits it can produce.

What is a proper application Scientology? It is that application that produces beneficial results of course. Like good cooking produces good delicous nutricious food. If the meal turns out inedible then the cook's "tech" was not properly applied or understood or whatever - the cook was "out tech", and that is all there is to it.

You were conned by whoever was delivering it to you. I wish it was different for you.

The problem. Leon, is that too many cooks spoil the broth. But I think you are a great guy. Best wishes.

 

[KnightVision]

So you've all agreed for the umpteenth time that the tech is a crock and a waste of time and so on and so forth (yawn) and through it all behind the scenes those of us who have a better acqaintance with good workable Scientology than the lot of you togethjer simply go our way, continue to audit people, continue to see lives improve, and are happy with the results we see.

Of course (yes, yes) this is all delusional on our part, after all we are all brainwashed idiots.

Ho hum.

I wish it were different. I really do wish you guys could have had proper application of Scientology and had some (or plenty) of the benefits it can produce.

What is a proper application Scientology? It is that application that produces beneficial results of course. Like good cooking produces good delicous nutricious food. If the meal turns out inedible then the cook's "tech" was not properly applied or understood or whatever - the cook was "out tech", and that is all there is to it.

You were conned by whoever was delivering it to you. I wish it was different for you.

Hi Leon,

A case could be made that we are all uniquely different and thus are not searching for the same answers. I wish you the best on your journey.

kV

 

[KnightVision]

Hi to all of you. and all of you are correct by the view point that you hold and respect.
I left Scientology 35 years or so and have not being involved with no one pro or against Scientology until a few days ago.
Before Scientology I liked mysticism after Scientology I still do.some of us fell a affinity toward it and go for it and the basic reason for that is that the inner desire to know, understand what is the inner working of our minds in the hope that if we do achieve it we will be able to be better to the degree that we know and use what we know to accomplish the above.
knowledge is the understanding which aloud one to do some thing.
most of the technology that Scientology has is a albatros because it does not deliver the ability to be, do, have. it adress the symptoms not what cause the machinery to behave like it does.( the mind) and the method to control the machinery in scientology is the erasure of the feeling of reactivity. instead of the understanding that will lead the self to have what it does not have. control of the machinery which aloud one to love and be loved or control to solve the causes of why the self is lost with in.to control what ever life or living bring to one self in a proactive way instead of reactive.
I left hoping that the OT levels will teach who ever got there this and that this was what clear and O T meant. I found that it was not.I guess that to some extent all you found that to.
there is a question that any one of you need to resolve and hopefully in a proactive manner. and this question is not for any one else but you self what do I do about my desires to improve and others to improve as well.
because if you look at what you are doing mostly is stating your position I'm right they are not and and using tour energies in that and to that degree you are off source with important desires that exist with in you self. can I gain what I need to know so that I can fix what I do not like with in my self.
I'm no guru nor I have desires to become one. I like Ron even do that he cause me much pain he did force me in to looking and finding answer which help me he is not god, nor Buddha he does belong to the category of individuals which have affected all of us and our future like it or not. learn your lessons what ever that may be for you.
I wish you all well
original angel

Every now and then someone like you come along and says something that allows my mind to shift directions and the journey switches course; the air smells fresh and it becomes fun again to dream and play along the way. I shall mark this as one of those memorable moments.

Been a long time since I've seen an angel...

Thank you

 

[Leon]

Hi Leon,

A case could be made that we are all uniquely different and thus are not searching for the same answers. I wish you the best on your journey.

kV

Benefits are benefits, no matter how unique you are. And you are unique. Improvement is improvement only if it is that in your own estimation, not in someone else's.

 

[KnightVision]

Benefits are benefits, no matter how unique you are. And you are unique. Improvement is improvement only if it is that in your own estimation, not in someone else's.

Well said! Hey, is that your bird on your head? Cute little tweetie...

 

[a original angel]

Every now and then someone like you come along and says something that allows my mind to shift directions and the journey switches course; the air smells fresh and it becomes fun again to dream and play along the way. I shall mark this as one of those memorable moments.

Been a long time since I've seen an angel...

Thank you

that is the problem gays we all are angels. and we all are trying and because of I say let go of re activeness. go proactive be.do.have.
power is the ability to hold a position
We can hold that position in reactiveness or the other side of the scale pro activeness. scientology show us all the proactive side it did not give us the understanding required to hold our position above. we went for the images. pictures not the mechanism which produce them and because some of us loss.
the machine produce what it has. we all know that what we desire on the first place is the knowledge the power to control how we are, do, and what we desire have. the self need to be oriented in to how to shift the energies to higher states of being not by processing some one else the self but by giving the self understanding to how accomplish that. the answer lies in understanding the machine and shifting the energy to higher modes. this you may call emotions, attitudes. Rom dint give what he dint have. virtues. the quest is to first understand virtues them figure how to incorporate them in a workable way in to the emotional center. and from there use them in a way which profit benefit you the self.
this is my way and I know yours as well.
that is OT powers. and if not correct me please I'm willing to debate this issue to my last breath.
much love
original angel

 

[Mick Wenlock]

You were conned by whoever was delivering it to you. I wish it was different for you.

ah the famous justification. "If it did not work it wasn't 'real' scientology because 'real' scientology always works..."

Prayer makes water run uphill. How long do you have to pray? Until the water runs uphill.

I am sooo glad it isn't "different' for me.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

ah the famous justification. "If it did not work it wasn't 'real' scientology because 'real' scientology always works..."

Prayer makes water run uphill. How long do you have to pray? Until the water runs uphill.

I am sooo glad it isn't "different' for me.

Dearest Darlingest Ming the Merciless,

Some people derive some benefits from Scn. Some people don't. It's difficult for people on both sides of the coin to relate to how it is for the other, but they try anyway. On one side, you've got "the tech always works" or "it wasn't delivered correctly to you" and on the other you've got "you only imagined it worked" "you're brainwashed"...etc...etc...etc.

Bottom line? People don't like being told by others that their experiences and impressions are no good and that "UR doin it rong."

I think xenu daily for the divine inspiration I get from lolcats tech.

 

[a original angel]

ah the famous justification. "If it did not work it wasn't 'real' scientology because 'real' scientology always works..."

Prayer makes water run uphill. How long do you have to pray? Until the water runs uphill.

I am sooo glad it isn't "different' for me.

Hi you all.
the tech cause at times relief. key out do you agree.
some times it dint= repair do you agree
the auditor access with the pc pictures, facsimiles do you agree
that is what the tech do do you agree.
now let see it under a different perspective
A motor make the wheel spin agree?
some thing is wrong with the motor which make the wheel eratic.do you repair the motor or the wheel i asume that you do not repair the wheel
the problem is that the mechanic does not know any thing about the motor and what it does is make bigger better wheels. to repair
end phenomena the motor is not repair and because of it keep spinning the wheel and because of the wheel keep been erratic.
see the paradox please
access the cause of the problem. inability to Handel emotion because the individual do not understand know how to do that.
and as well it does not know how to create systems which will make the emotional center function properly= high emotions above the 50% in the emotional scale once the individual know about then the quest is how do I create, make a system in which I can deal proactively instead of what I have all ways done reactively because I dint know = learn about virtues and how to operate with them

original angel

 

[KnightVision]

Dearest Darlingest Ming the Merciless,

Some people derive some benefits from Scn. Some people don't. It's difficult for people on both sides of the coin to relate to how it is for the other, but they try anyway. On one side, you've got "the tech always works" or "it wasn't delivered correctly to you" and on the other you've got "you only imagined it worked" "you're brainwashed"...etc...etc...etc.

Bottom line? People don't like being told by others that their experiences and impressions are no good and that "UR doin it rong."

I can see the logic of that. Allowing any form of self improvement to monopolize one's reach marks the abandonment of discovery and puts one in a position of being stuck in an effect. When advocates dole out the party line of "It always works" or "It's the ONLY workable blah, blah, blah"... what I see is a person who is at effect to his philosophy; yet he's promoting that this "tech" will deliver one to a state "at cause".

A *free* mind can look and explore while maintaining critical independent thought. Since Scientology is a totalitarian system which seeks to monopolize one's thoughts of what is workable it should be approached with due caution. A little bit might be useful, and some say the benefits out weigh the negatives; but when studied objectively by others it can be identified to be a absolutist system, which in it's totality it's a trap.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

A bit of skepticism is a good thing. It really is. I think it's great that some people are reaching for their spiritual side and so forth, but there should always be a bit of skepticism even so.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

ah the famous justification. "If it did not work it wasn't 'real' scientology because 'real' scientology always works..."

Prayer makes water run uphill. How long do you have to pray? Until the water runs uphill.

I am sooo glad it isn't "different' for me.

Prayer doesn't make water run uphill, so what you're saying is that the Tech never works and Leon, in common with anyone else who claims to have had or seen good results from the Tech, is either lying or deluded if he thinks otherwise?

Glad we got that straight.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

TAJ, perfect first post.
The Freezone is just another preversion of Scientology. Yet they like to call themselves "real" Scientologists.
I see Scientology as the next King James bible with all kinds of different religions being started yet none of them being the "same". But all from the same texts.:confused2:
Personally, I'd rather just not do any of it.

I will say there is some Scientology that does work and can be usefull. And I'm not saying people don't "get better" from Scientology or Scientology's Freezone. But in the end, it's still Scientology.

 

[Lermanet_com]

Scientology WORKS!!!

------------------------------

I used to believe that...

Pick up the Cans Please, This is the session

Is an example of a keyword phrase..most scientologist's react accordingly..when it is delivered in the same style as the hypnotic operator...

Hubbard fooled me for ten years and then some... it took another decade before I was willing to even talk to a psychiatrist .. and I was fortunate to meet and discuss Hubbard's scam with Dr Margaret Singer and Dr. Jolly West.

Hubbard liked to tell us to ALWAYS GO TO SOURCE.. meaning what the worlds most famous con man, wrote or said... well, I did him one better, I dug up every book I could find on mind control psychology, hypnotism, and electroanalgesia published between 1935 and 1956, and I browsed through them, and when I found something that smelled scientological, and my usage is like the word scatalogical... I'd read the entire text and then study the bibliography and references and then read those.

Hubbard even liked to taunt us... to see if were 'right there with him in the trance" by telling us things to see if we would notice. In one lecture on PDC, Hubturd says, "and if you think this has anything to do with hypnosis, read George Estabrooks"

Have any of you done that? If not, You will, keep reading..

Hubbard admits he knows who this fellow Estabrooks is, and it would be a safe assumption that he read him and knew you would not, because he intended to make you so busy studying his rubbish that you would never get the chance anyway, because if you did....you would find out that Dianetics and Scientology are based upon suggestion and covert military style, hypnosis.

Hubbard was a master stage hypnotist..His literary agent, forrest ackerman and others recounted his stellar performances... LINK to Forrest Ackerman's typewritten notes (Scroll down for images)

In one a kid goes around showing everyone in the room this cute miniature kangaroo, hopping about in his hand...when everyone laughs at him for doing so. LINK

Another stood screaming in pain, while holding a wooden handrail. Hubbard had told them that they were holding onto a red hot iron rail and could not let go.

If you combine both of these you get the condition of scientologist...

George Estabrooks, wrote a book about covert use of hypnosis as a fiction, in order to escape the secrecy act, because he was a psychologist who was an expert hypnotist and was called to work for The Office of Strategic Services - OSS. In his book, aptly called "Death in the Mind" he describes a fictitious tale, but states that all the scenarios are based on referenced, tested, techniques, and he even gave the citations.

I will share one page from this book today...(c) 1945 It is creepy reading,

as creepy as Hubbard's test of whether we were swallowing everything he gushed when he said in OTIII "to Only run yourself and your BT's through Incident II up until you see the picture of the pilot saying "I'm mocking it up""

Was that "pilot' a jaunty looking Hubbard in his captain's uniform telling you exactly what he was doing??

Hubbard said: "I'm mocking it up"

And if any of you recall the fine print in the OTIII bulletins that said that if you did NOT see any BTs you would be required to redo your entire bridge again.. at YOUR expense.

That sounds like an implied but very compelling direct command, doesn't it?

On the subject of direct commands, consider, in Dianetics, the command value of the word "clear". Did any of you wonder why he repeated it over and over and over again?? I did, but it took me 40 years before I knew why he did... Because iit would make your previous life disappear, your friends, disappear, your family - disappear, and your bank (account) that sneaky bastard, no wonder the reges seem so irresistable.. youhad to CLEAR your BANK! A=A, eh?

More including a book HYPNOSIS, by Estabrooks, HERE

TR0 exposed as The Eye To Eye Technique for deep trance induction in a 1956 book called Hypnosis for Salesmen LINK which also contains a chapter called "Never give the customer a Choice" Does the Dissem policy by that same title sound familiar? Think Hubbard might have read this?

AND

TR1 where you read nonsensical lines from Alice in Wonderland...is in fact The Confusion Technique for covert trance induction being used on your twin.... The "Alice in Wonderland" technique using The book by the same name, is described in the Army Kubark Interrogation manual from the 50's

"Get your TRs in"

turns out to actually mean, enter L Ron Hubbard's controlled trance...where you duplicate source...do, perceive and believe exactly what Ron said, and justify it forever until you snap out of it.

And when you are sitting in the waiting room for your next session, what were you reading, while you "got your TR's IN" ??? The Gradation Chart!!! LINK You were feeding yourself suggestions, on what you would achieve in the session!

I have many more examples for those with the courage to read them..

And do not feel badly, these were military techniques, used for espionage, and counter-espionage, and it was known that the best subjects for hypnosis were highly intelligent people. because highly intelligent people, can control their minds better!

And you thought you had Body Thetans...

(c) Arnaldo Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
WE COME BACK
for our friends and family
to help get them
out of scientology
before they end up here:
whyaretheydead.net

"Auditing is a simple, thoroughly designed means, of concentrating the mind to the state of a controlled trance. The aim and result is progressively to enforce loyalty to and identification with Scientology to the detriment of one's natural awareness of divergent ways of thinking and outside cultural influences. Love and allegiance are more and more given exclusively to Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard."
Dr. John Gordon Clark, Doctor of Medicine of Harvard Medical School

"The most effective weapons of the Oppressor Are the minds of the Oppressed"
Steve Biko

HYPNOSIS WORKS!

 

[gomorrhan]

Nope, never thought I had body thetans.

I don't think that "book hypnosis" is dangerous. I deliberately put myself in a trance whenever I read fiction, in an effort to "mock it all up", so that I can see it, feel it, hear it, etc. I don't think that's at all dangerous. The only way it would be dangerous is if you didn't realize you were doing it, and did it anyway, under another's control.

Which brings me to my definition of what scientology considers "no case gain" Suppressives: people who know when another person is trying to put them in a trance without their consent or willingness and refuse to enter that trance.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Prayer doesn't make water run uphill, so what you're saying is that the Tech never works and Leon, in common with anyone else who claims to have had or seen good results from the Tech, is either lying or deluded if he thinks otherwise?

Glad we got that straight.

glad to see you are still having comprehension problems.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Hi Ming the merciless!