Scientologists CANNOT answer these questions.

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Fascinating TA Jacker. I have explored this concept hard. The mental conditioning is via the language, imo. Initially with self. It is reinforced by group members yakking away with scio lingo.

I had a wild experience with this. By accident. I went to live in a foreign culture. I could not speak much due to not knowing the local languages. All I heard around me was "noise" i.e. non distinguishable speech sounds/language. Consequently I had to focus very carefully at conveying any vital communication - really work on basic concepts like "how much money do I owe you" to shopkeepers, etc. I was so utterly "in the moment" to get the basics of each day achieved.

It was like being a two-year-old in an adults body. I could not understand so many things. Wild stuff. Invigorating and at times, exhausting. My mind became very "lean" and I became very in tune with my environment. Had to, to get by, survive.

The added lingo of scientology was, by default, forced out of my mind as it was totally superfluous to basic requirement. Even the concepts of scientology, which I had for years and years framed life with, were abandoned, accidentally. I would see a man fall off his bike and just think "a man just fell off his bike" whereas for years I would have thought "that man has a PTS scene going on" or "he needs an assist", etc. I could cite thousands of examples of how this actually worked. Simplicity of thought returned to me. Think of this like being stripped back to your bare survival skills without the need for any fancy "isms". "Isms" were a luxury. It was a matter of just getting through the day the best damn way you could. No mental filtering required - just me and life. Hard up against one another.

Without that scientology lingo influencing my thoughts and without the reinforcement of hearing the lingo from other scientologists around me, huge changes occurred. At the time this happened, I loved scientology, wanted to be a scientologist, etc. So it was a huge shock to find myself, after several months of living without any scientology lingo, concepts, that I began to think differently, view things in a very new way and start to question what I had been involved in.

The language factor is KEY to making a scientologist and then UN-making a scientologist. In my own very well lived experience.


Such a great post! Wonderful observations!

When I first freed myself from the slavery of "total freedom" one of the most beautiful feelings was to remove the word-shackles & concept-chains that bound my every thought and movement. Ecstasy!

It is so remarkable to listen to a Scn speak now. Everything in life can be reduced to moronically simplistic terms, plus or minus.

Me upstat. He,she or it downstat.
Me uptone. He, she or it downtone.
Me theta. He, she or it entheta.
Me cause. He, she or it effect.
Me OT. He, she or it DB.
Me in-ethics. He, she or it out-ethics.
Me Power. He, she or it lower condition.
Me GIs. He, she or it BI's.
Me on bridge. He, she or it off bridge.


The other day I was watching a movie with a 4 year old. Every time a new character would be introduced, this adorable child would look at me and ask "ARE THEY GOOD OR ARE THEY BAD?"

That's how little kids think. Simplistically. To keep themselves oriented and avoid being frightened.

That's how Scientologists avoid being frightened, too.
 

Doom

Lurking.
Thats not the real question

The real questing is how do you stop laughing after asking those questions to a young staff member on the phone trying to sell you the "Basics" for the twentieth time that day.:roflmao:
 

angel

Patron with Honors
So Many Questions...

I never heard that Scientologist's know the answer to everything. I know they are capable of finding the answer's, but not being all knowing on the spot.

I do not believe that LRH Killed his own body to operate as a thetan. I believe his body failed him.

In regards to rejecting the mentally ill I believe the plan was to help the able become more able and then pick up the psych cases later.

I don't think you should have to prove exteriorization. You could bark up other trees for that one like Kundalini yoga meditation practiced by the yogi's.

What do they need all the money for? This one I love :blowkiss: Supposedly the money is the exchange for the service. My issue is in the early 80's the prices were raised to unbelievable heights. Prior to the price hikes My husband secured one of his OT Levels for approx $450.00 and its still on account! The Org's were huge and fully staffed. I walked into a close to Saint Hill Size Org and seeing all the posts manned and how they fit together was truly fascinating. The price hike closed the doors and only allowed the wealthy and those willing to go into debt through. What was the purpose for this? If it was greed it didnt work, all the Org's shrunk to multi hatted ghost towns. What they did with the money? Cater to the likes of Tom Cruise, purchase unbelievable real estate, all the reno's at Flag. I would have felt the exchange better had they Air Conditioned ASHO and all the Org's.

Jen
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
angel;261748]

I never heard that Scientologist's know the answer to everything. I know they are capable of finding the answer's, but not being all knowing on the spot.
Hmmmm,. I never met a trained OT who did not behave like they had all the answers. You must be running into a new style of OT manufactured after I left.. (lol)

I do not believe that LRH Killed his own body to operate as a thetan. I believe his body failed him.

That's what the leader of the Church Of Scientology represented to all the Scientologists in the world who gathered at the event. I suppose you are saying that David Miscavige lied, in that case? ( By the way, I'm with you on this, he died just like everyone else dies, like a mortal man)

In regards to rejecting the mentally ill I believe the plan was to help the able become more able and then pick up the psych cases later.
I was told to believe that and I used to believe that. Later I realized that an "able" person had more money. And a mentally unsound one did not. Add to that the fact that on a normal person, you can't easily see if the person improved, all you can do is listen to what they tell you (I feel better).

On the mentally ill, however, their behavior is OBSERVABLE as far as whether they improve or not. (they can speak coherently, they stop sleeping all day, they stop hallucinating, they stop screaming, etc.) If you claim you can cure the insane (as Hubbard often did) it seems pretty obvious (to me) that you would go out and prove it.

He didn't because he couldn't. The "reason" he gave to not treat the insane was self-serving. The real reason was because it didn't make money and because it would be an obvious failure when a mental patient did not respond to the "miracle technology".


I don't think you should have to prove exteriorization. You could bark up other trees for that one like Kundalini yoga meditation practiced by the yogi's.
I agree with you. No one should have to prove exteriorization. Unless they promise it to you, charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve it and then fail to deliver on that promise. Then they do have to prove it. If they don't want to prove it, just give the billions of dollars back to the victims of the con game and start over. No problem.
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
I agree. If you are PAYING to get that ability, you should be able to see that it can be delivered before handing over the hard-earned cash.

The whole point of Sunday Services that were brought in in the early 2000s was that LRH said his group processes cause exteriorisation, and that was supposed to get newbies on the bridge. "wow Im 3 feet back of my head, here's $100,000".

All it did was bore the crap out of new people. They were long, repetative processes. I never saw anyone other than a couple of OTs claim that they exteriorised during group processing. It certainly never worked on me and I went every week.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I agree. If you are PAYING to get that ability, you should be able to see that it can be delivered before handing over the hard-earned cash.

The whole point of Sunday Services that were brought in in the early 2000s was that LRH said his group processes cause exteriorisation, and that was supposed to get newbies on the bridge. "wow Im 3 feet back of my head, here's $100,000".

All it did was bore the crap out of new people. They were long, repetative processes. I never saw anyone other than a couple of OTs claim that they exteriorised during group processing. It certainly never worked on me and I went every week.

Imagine this scenario:

In 60 years let's say that only ONE (1) person ever gained the ability to exteriorize. Not hard to guess what would have happened.

There would have been film crews with that person day and night, testing done, proof shown, leading scientists flown in to set up protocols to eliminate doubt, government subsidy and grants, worldwide notoriety on the front page of every newspaper and magazine, radio and tv shows running stories about it around the clock......

Scientology would have sold books, tapes, videos, lectures, seminars, courses, auditing and there would have been lines running blocks long for people to get to OT. Paying pcs would have to wait MONTHS or longer to get an auditor. The scarcity would have driven the price up to unthinkable heights. The rich and famous would be in bidding wars for top auditors.

It would have been considered a MIRACLE and people would have made religious pilgrimages to see or touch the blessed one. Billions in merchandising and souvenirs would have been sold. Hundreds of books would have been written about it. Major movies would be released.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WORLD CHANGING EVENT.

That's if only ONE (1) person could exteriorize.

Imagine what would have happened if Scientology worked on everyone, the way it says!
 

TA Jacker

Patron


Imagine this scenario:

In 60 years let's say that only ONE (1) person ever gained the ability to exteriorize. Not hard to guess what would have happened.

There would have been film crews with that person day and night, testing done, proof shown, leading scientists flown in to set up protocols to eliminate doubt, government subsidy and grants, worldwide notoriety on the front page of every newspaper and magazine, radio and tv shows running stories about it around the clock......

Scientology would have sold books, tapes, videos, lectures, seminars, courses, auditing and there would have been lines running blocks long for people to get to OT. Paying pcs would have to wait MONTHS or longer to get an auditor. The scarcity would have driven the price up to unthinkable heights. The rich and famous would be in bidding wars for top auditors.

It would have been considered a MIRACLE and people would have made religious pilgrimages to see or touch the blessed one. Billions in merchandising and souvenirs would have been sold. Hundreds of books would have been written about it. Major movies would be released.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WORLD CHANGING EVENT.

That's if only ONE (1) person could exteriorize.

Imagine what would have happened if Scientology worked on everyone, the way it says!

This is so true!

How about in the 50's, during the time before the PDC. Ron says there that 50% of people exteriorize instantly on the command, "Be 3 feet back of your head" or "Try not to be 3 feet back of your head", and that this was the one shot clear. The rest of the body of knowledge of Scientology was for the chap that didn't respond to this command!

Or the chapter, "Skills of a theta being" from "A History of Man" where he talks about not starting a war in these parts on free thetans by showing off your skills such as tipping of hats or reading newspapers 100 yards away.

I think with these sorts of claims that something, someone somewhere should have been able to prove it! Particularly when it is one of the EPs of the upper levels.

Maybe L Con Hubbard was the only man to be able to do it and went nuts trying to prove it to others but failed. Possibly he carried forward Crowley's obsession with leaving the body and getting himself off the planet.

Has anyone on the board seen or experienced true exteriorization? (This question may be covered elsewhere in another thread.):confused2:
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
I thought I did at some point, but now Im not so sure. Its highly possible that I was a little out of it form lack of sleep, proper food and extremely overworked, not to mantion it was late a night and I was very tired.

So probably no.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Another question they cannot answer:

What is the definition of Clear? And what are the actual, provable abilities in every Clear?

(And why are some Clears or OTs more equal than others?) :confused2:

How could a person get so far up the Bridge and/or so high up in the Sea Org and turn out to be an SP after dedicating years of their life to helping?
 

FinallyMe

Silver Meritorious Patron
Definitely exterior

As a child - maybe 5-7 years old, I would exteriorize fairly regularly, traveling around outside my house -- I thought I was flying. Then on an acid trip, I went exterior, no question about it, although I certainly didn't call it "exterior" as I had never heard the term. Then during an auditing session shortly after I started Scn, I went exterior. I had no idea what that was, but I made a comment to my auditor about how TALL I was. I didn't know what "exterior" was at the time as I was too new, but I was delighted to have gotten to the same "height" that I had while on the acid trip - it was a pretty cool, empowering sensation. I just wonder if, had I know what was happening, could I have tried to do anything different than just walking, talking, etc. My experiences leave me with the opinion that "being 3 feet in back of your head" is fairly useless. I didn't feel that any witching powers came along with the position.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Another question they cannot answer:

What is the definition of Clear? And what are the actual, provable abilities in every Clear?

(And why are some Clears or OTs more equal than others?) :confused2:

How could a person get so far up the Bridge and/or so high up in the Sea Org and turn out to be an SP after dedicating years of their life to helping?

That, ladies and gentlemen, is a Scieno-Stumper!

I Had to stop and think hard on the answer to that question. The real answer, not the bumper-sticker, bromide bandaids that the CoS hands out to parishoners traumatized by the truth.

Here are the possible explanations:

The person was ALWAYS an SP: But that means that nobody in Scn, including Hubbard knows what an SP is, how to detect and shatter them. No, that's not gonna work.

The person BECOMES an SP: But that means that the tech didn't work, so that's not gonna work either.

Hmmmm, what else is left that would explain it?

They were overwhelmed by an SP and went into the SP's valence: Top tech terminals and OTs in the world including Ron's auditor? At total effect? Not gonna work.

There is more than one definition of SP: Oooops! That explains it.

SP DEFINITION #1: (see bulletins & policies on anti social and SP)

SP DEFINITION #2: "People who protest being slaves to Scientology. Slavery Protesters (SP).
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
ANSWER: Because the Church of Scientology smiles in your face, keeping a set of daggers hidden behind their back. Give them everything they want and you get the smiles (daggers remain hidden).

Do anything that displeases them and you will get holy (not the religious kind, the "hole" kind, as in daggers in the back. )

Hubbard went on and on about how 1.1 (covert hostility) is the most dangerous tone level. Isn't that the tone level of the Con of S?

At one time I had so many "daggers in the back" that I had difficulty balancing upright--but as the consensus demonstrates it had nothing to do with my attempting to enforce policy in relation to my own post, it was because I was OUT ETHICS!!!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
At one time I had so many "daggers in the back" that I had difficulty balancing upright--but as the consensus demonstrates it had nothing to do with my attempting to enforce policy in relation to my own post, it was because I was OUT ETHICS!!!

Yeah, that reminds me of the lovely end phenomena "cognition" I had after being run on the Scientology Slave Rundown:

THE SLAVE COG: "If something good happened anywhere in my vicinity, it was because of Scientology. If something bad happened anywhere in my vicinity, it was because of me."

Remarkably, the Scn Slave Rundown is so powerful that it takes years to attain the full end phenomena. It is the only rundown that allows... actually requires that the pc be FED THE EP on a daily basis until they can make it their own.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I surely agree with what's being said here about CofS and SPs. Yes, lots of daggers in the back.

Reminds me of when I was in the S.O. and LRH would send in a fire-breathing mission from the ship. First action was for the uniformed mission commander to storm in to a staff muster and violently stab the mission orders into the wall with a dagger. Somehow it didn't feel very spiritual....

There is, however, one notable exception when CofS does NOT stab one unexpectedly in the back.

The times the CofS stabs one unexpectedly in the front. (lol)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
some more questions that Scientologists CANNOT answer....

*** If scientology works 100% of the time and makes people happy and free, why do so many scientologists unhappily LEAVE after 10, 20 years or more?

*** Why does the leader of scientology (DM) physically beat his staff?

*** (in case they don't believe the last one): Why (per Tommy Davis), was Marty Rathbun allowed to physically beat staff over 50 times over a long period of time without being removed from post or reported to the police?

*** why did hubbard direct his wife and top international execs to commit so many serious crimes that they all went to prison? (and if someone thinks he did not know about it, how could an OT not know what was happening in his immediate vicinity including the people he worked with every day and the woman he slept with every night?)

*** why did hubbard reveal in a 1958 filmed congress (see thread "Hubbard Admits Dianetics Book Is A Fraud" ) that he had grossly erred and that DMSMH DOES NOT produce a clear....and then continue selling the uncorrected book, courses and auditing for the next 50 years, guaranteeing that you can go clear in a few hours with DMSMH even though it was known to be a lie.


there are soooooooooo many more such questions. don't get me started! (lol)
 
Top