Scientologist's violence at Anonymous pickets

Smitty

Silver Meritorious Patron
comment to degraded being

I have read the thread quickly so hope I'm not repeating something. Do you think OSA are encouraging provocative behavior hoping to incite an angry outburst by the anti-scio protesters. Of course OSA could do this in such a behind the scenes way that even the people chosen to be provocative would not realize it's actually planned/engineered by OSA. They could make things look a little "unruly" and perhaps get a protester to lash out at someone who is "after all just some 17 year old who is understandably annoyed about having their religion crticised" and if questioned, the dupe teenager -or others would not implicate OSA or anyone else if they believed that they had thought the whole thing up themselves. Yes, a little bit into paranoia there, which is a healthy thing when dealing with OSA /COS.

If it is occurring from org staff, you can damn well bet that it is being encouraged by corporate scientology. Let us toss out the OSA label as it is just another department within corporate scientology. As violence to achieve political ends is being encouraged, that makes corporate scientology a terrorist group.
Smitty
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
This is an important thread, FTS.

Never in my wildest dreams, when I was a Scientologist, did I think that my Church would handle protesters with violence.

The Church organizes pickets of psych conventions, etc. all the time - never ever even once did I ever hear of any psych tearing up anyone's signs, pushing any Scientologist, or even accosting them verbally.

Yet here we see video of staff members of the Church of Scientology, the professional Scientologists, getting violent with people who are protesting.

It is further proof, on top of mountains of earlier proof, that Scientology is not what it says it is: It does not produce people who can handle life in a more enlightened way.

Scientology does not improve conditions for Mankind. It does not bring civilization to a higher level. It does not create thetans who operate more humanely or even non-barbarically.

This violence is documented proof that Churches of Scientology are little islands of barbarism surrounded by a more enlightened world.
 
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Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
...

Scientology cannot find anything to grab hold of to start swinging this their way. Like trying to grab wriggling slimy fish or something.

The initial black PR campaign, with press releases about Anon being a violent group have long been forgotten by the public. Now all the public are seeing are a bunch of persistent creative folk who have become rather like a welcomed monthly tradition - peacefully protesting and having fun. The Anon message is getting through – more people join Anon frequently.

The cease & desist letters (whatever those legal letters were called) sent to identified Anons have done nothing to help scientology “handle”. All these letters did was give oxygen to the already strongly burning fire. Absolutely ineffective. Waste of resources.

...

Scientology can’t play the “waa waa these folk are discriminating against our religion” as this will open up a can of worms. Much of the Anon actions/messages are heavily attacking “is scientology really a religion?” Scientology can’t afford to play the religious discrimination card.

Scientology can’t run classic nasty fair game because Anon is cleverly documenting their every move and will just rise up and say “there you just proved exactly what we’ve been saying”.

There seems to be no pattern to how OSA is handling this. Initially there was but now there are random things going on which indicates there is no sound program running here. They don’t seem to have a clue how to make this “problem” go away.

So that leaves desperation and serious frustration. IMO this display of violence is from the rank & file staff members who have been badly let down by their office of special affairs (OSA). OSA is meant to effectively handle any and all black PR and remove threats from the environment. But the real problem is that OSA are so fucking far out of their depth here because all the tools that Hubbard left them to play with are useless in the 21st century. Furthermore the policies are steeped in Hubbard’s paranoia & cannot withstand too much truth being flung at them.

And that is the point. There is too much truth in Anonymous for scientology to cope.

I’m with sallydannce on this one. I don’t think these outbursts are planned in any way. The CoS is plainly losing the battle. Compare the response to recent protests to what happened at protests in the late ‘90s and early 00s (see XenuTV on YouTube). Then, a handful of protesters were mobbed by dozens of Scientologists and verbally abused and threatened.

For an example, see this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QGDxnrYqKg

(it's a long one, but skip to about 20 mins in)

Now, the Scientologists mostly just hide.

The rank and file staff members must be getting very frustrated. Every month, protestors are turning up out side most of the major orgs on the planet and OSA seem to be doing nothing to stop it. This must be hitting the orgs hard. In the past, whenever there was a PR problem, the normal story that we would hear is “OSA are handling it”. Occasionally, we would be asked to attend a public demonstration, but mostly legal and PR would be left to OSA.

But, it seems that Miscavige’s reign of terror has emasculated OSA to the point that they are no longer able to mount a coordinated response. DM was apparently so preoccupied with rooting out all the SPs in senior management, that he overlooked the need to have vital functions manned up. The CoS seems totally clueless as to what to do about Anonymous.

But, to be fair (I am British after all), I’m not sure what the CoS can do about this. How do you stop thousands of people protesting in a law-abiding manner? We know that the CoS has done many things that they wouldn’t want widely known (what are your crimes Scientology?), and these are now getting wide publicity. The only way that I can see Anonymous failing, is if the CoS infiltrates and causes or provokes violence against CoS personnel or premises.

From what I’ve seen, the vast majority of Anonymous are far too sensible to do anything like this. But, I’m sure that if any Scientology staff got hurt, no matter who started it, then the CoS would gleefully use this to their utmost advantage.

So it is essential that if anyone is protesting, that they keep within the law at all times and do not respond to provocation with any violence. Obviously this does not preclude anyone from taking reasonable measures to protect themselves or others. In addition, always make sure that there are witnesses and multiple video cameras. Simply saying “Well the Scilons attacked us, but ran away before the Police came and we didn’t get any video of it.” won’t impress anyone. But, a video clip on YouTube of Scientologists threatening or assaulting protestors will count very heavily against the CoS.

Any outbursts against protestors is a sure sign that Anonymous are winning. Keep up the good work!

Axiom142
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Axiom wrote:

But, to be fair (I am British after all),....
We all know that fairness was invented by the British, and is patented, copyrighted, and trademarked exclusively by them to this day.

Thank God for Anglican Civilization.

Where would The Rest of The World ™ be without it?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
As someone who's been involved in numerous protests over a long period of time, it's clear to me that any violence or inciting of violence is *of course* an official reaction/provocation.

There are some rare instances of individual 'staff' or 'public' or even OSA reaction to public protests, but, far more typical and revealing is the coordinated 'battle plan'. It's what makes Scientology a totalitarian Cult. There are no 'rogue agents'.

Yes, there are sometimes mistakes, when an ordered action is done so that it is visible, and thereby reveals the manipulative nature of the Cult; such as the well known 'I smell pussy' incident, but, Local Scns do *not* operate on their own or without orders; and, if there is an apparent programmatic shift to violent acts or attempts to incite violence, then, it's the current battleplan; not a 'mistake'.

The violent and aggressive behavior of Scn operatives, whether staff, OSA or OSA-Public are a deliberate 'Tone Scale Exercise' ordered from above, with the intention of getting 'control' of the fiasko that Anon is for Scientology.

Anon is doing a damn fine job with it too.

Zinj
 

sandygirl

Silver Meritorious Patron
My God!!! This distinctly reminds me of something.

Remember in the PTS/SP course when LRH talks about the Suppresive Personality? How he gets the people in the area all worked up with his lies and then sits back quietly in the corner?

These people are acting like nutjobs. Lord know what kind of garbage they're being fed from the Scios "in the know"-because they CAN'T look at any info. on their own!!!

It is really sad and scary!!
 

byte301

Crusader
My God!!! This distinctly reminds me of something.

Remember in the PTS/SP course when LRH talks about the Suppresive Personality? How he gets the people in the area all worked up with his lies and then sits back quietly in the corner?

These people are acting like nutjobs. Lord know what kind of garbage they're being fed from the Scios "in the know"-because they CAN'T look at any info. on their own!!!

It is really sad and scary!!

Well thanks to a lot of leaks we know what the co$ party line is on Anonymous. They are told anon is paid by the big pharmas who are run by the evil psychiatrists. They are told that anon wants them dead and are evil and sp's... shit like that. Some anons have even been asked by run of the mill $cilons why anonymous wants to kill them!! It is outrageous. If they only knew that their beloved Davey is the one who couldn't care less if they died tomorrow as long as they leave any money they've got left to the cult!

Their real enemy walks amongst them.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
It's an old political statement: We have met the enemy, and, he is us.

It achieves a whole new level of appropriateness for Scientology.

Scientology - Is this trip necessary?

Zinj
 

byte301

Crusader
It's an old political statement: We have met the enemy, and, he is us.

It achieves a whole new level of appropriateness for Scientology.

Scientology - Is this trip necessary?

Zinj

Yes. It also reminds me of that old poster: What to do in cause of a nuclear attack.

The last line was: Put your head between your legs. Kiss your ass goodbye.

Davey, take note. You are in the middle of your very own self made nuclear attack. Kiss your ass goodbye, dude.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
We all know that fairness was invented by the British, and is patented, copyrighted, and trademarked exclusively by them to this day.

Thank God for Anglican Civilization.

Where would The Rest of The World ™ be without it?

Damn right!

But of course, since we are so scrupulously fair, we do allow other nations to make use of our patented Fairness Technology™.

But, unfortunately no one else seems particularly interested in applying it. And since we are no longer allowed to send out our Ethics Missions (aka gunboat diplomacy) to get this Technology ‘in’. We have to carry the torch of Fairness alone, until such time that The Rest of The World™ becomes civilized enough to make use of it.

Axiom142
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Heh. I'm not sure if 'fairness' can replace a Constitution, but, considering how rubbery both concepts are, it's probably a good idea to keep your hand on your wallet either way.

Zinj
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
As someone who's been involved in numerous protests over a long period of time, it's clear to me that any violence or inciting of violence is *of course* an official reaction/provocation.

There are some rare instances of individual 'staff' or 'public' or even OSA reaction to public protests, but, far more typical and revealing is the coordinated 'battle plan'. It's what makes Scientology a totalitarian Cult. There are no 'rogue agents'.

Yes, there are sometimes mistakes, when an ordered action is done so that it is visible, and thereby reveals the manipulative nature of the Cult; such as the well known 'I smell pussy' incident, but, Local Scns do *not* operate on their own or without orders; and, if there is an apparent programmatic shift to violent acts or attempts to incite violence, then, it's the current battleplan; not a 'mistake'.

The violent and aggressive behavior of Scn operatives, whether staff, OSA or OSA-Public are a deliberate 'Tone Scale Exercise' ordered from above, with the intention of getting 'control' of the fiasko that Anon is for Scientology.

Anon is doing a damn fine job with it too.

Zinj

I tend to agree with you. However in my experience it's usually some very general order sent down and the individual foot soldier at the bottom who has to figure out how to Make It Go Right.

Imagine Program Orders like "Discredit Anonymous in your area so that production is not affected" or some such. How the hell does an individual staff member do that? They must be tearing their hair out and that will bubble over into what actions they take.

There could be specific orders regarding violence but they would be very hush hush Need To Know shit to a few key individuals who then filter it downlines. eg Order: "Provoke Anonymous to display their tone level of anger." How it is done is not the problem of the person writing the order, just the result. And any mistakes are of course nothing to do with them.

So I also agree with Sallydance's take on it that the rank and file are suffering from extreme frustration and working on lies, and that causes explosions.
 

alex

Gold Meritorious Patron
My feeling, and that is all it is, is that any violence against anon at protests would be the act of individual scientologists acting in personal desperation in a situation that the church is obviously not dealing with in any effective manner. (and is of the church's creation)

I am also of the belief that many of the posters on various websites, newsgroups and other internet channels are similarly acting on their own.

The notion that there is an orchestrated campaign of inciting violence, gives too much credence to the fallacy of an all powerful OSA.

The church is paralyzed by a lack of leadership, instead it has penalty mechanism in its place, with the label of leader.

True believers like me survive occum better than the theory of highly organized and effective, centrally controlled psyops.

imo

alex
 

byte301

Crusader
My feeling, and that is all it is, is that any violence against anon at protests would be the act of individual scientologists acting in personal desperation in a situation that the church is obviously not dealing with in any effective manner. (and is of the church's creation)

I am also of the belief that many of the posters on various websites, newsgroups and other internet channels are similarly acting on their own.

The notion that there is an orchestrated campaign of inciting violence, gives too much credence to the fallacy of an all powerful OSA.

The church is paralyzed by a lack of leadership, instead it has penalty mechanism in its place, with the label of leader.

True believers like me survive occum better than the theory of highly organized and effective, centrally controlled psyops.

imo

alex

I tend to agree with you Alex. Except for the youtube $cilons. They have been on there too long and stay on certain videos. I think they are OSA volunteers. I could be wrong though. They aren't making a dent but they seem to think they are.

The other incidences just seem like pure frustration on the $cilons part except for the Plymouth stuff. They were working too hard to get Stu in trouble. I think Sandra had orders to get Stu to do something they could baww about.

Now Vickie stealing Stu's signs was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen so I don't think that was planned. She saw an opportunity and went for it. She paid for that moment of insanity in spades.:D
 

Div6

Crusader
There is most obviously a "power vacuum" and local scngsts are getting sucked in to it. "The wrong thing to do is nothing.." is a fundamental datum they are inculcated in to, plus we are seeing "mob mentality"......nothing "theta" in that...
 

byte301

Crusader
There is most obviously a "power vacuum" and local scngsts are getting sucked in to it. "The wrong thing to do is nothing.." is a fundamental datum they are inculcated in to, plus we are seeing "mob mentality"......nothing "theta" in that...

Nope, nothing theta at all. I keep trying to put myself in their shoes. How would I feel and all that. I just can't do it. Maybe I've been out of the cult too long.
 

anonmom

Patron with Honors
Nope, nothing theta at all. I keep trying to put myself in their shoes. How would I feel and all that. I just can't do it. Maybe I've been out of the cult too long.

I feel this way, too, Byte. There so wasn't any of this when I was in. But then, we know scientology. We know how they run things. We know what control freaks they are and what big egos they have. The further up the bridge they are, the more they are suposed to be in control of their environment. If upper management tells them any kind of lie about anon, they will buy it.

John Travolta himself donated one million dollars to take care of anonymous. How are they going to take care of us, John? Scientology is crumbling. Do any of us think they will go away quietly? Of course not. Will they go out fighting? Probably! Will some scientologist(s) even go postal? Possibly, but I really hope not. I protest too and I want us all to be safe, even the CoS members.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Another factor contributing to my theory that this violence is based on betrayal on an individual level is the basics have been on the street for about one year now. These basics were THE answer to stabilising the group, expanding it. Like the magic bullet. So here is the rank & file staff member (& the over-regged public), having worked their guts out for a year to adhere to this magic bullet program and they look out the door and see Anonymous - again - mth after mth. Shit that must be demoralising in the extreme.

I bet one of the lines being pushed to staff/public about Anon is that Anon are a "sign of success" in line with the "success" & "wonder" of the basics. In the absence of real proof to show that Anon are on the pay roll of the psychs, lol, the party line will go something like "Anon are the reason we are here, society is decaying under the influence of the psychs who infiltrated the education systems, justice systems, etc."

Take all of that, oh and the blood, sweat & tears for the damn endless endless ideal org program that is crawling along - and what do you have. Dissonance of extreme proportions. This is a hell of a lot for a hard working scio to align. I bet there are more scio's in doubt every day. The indoc can start to crumble, even if slightly, under this type of attack.

I can still remember what it was like to be on staff and to have to handle attacks & they were chicken shit compared to the level that has been pouring out the past few mths. You can hold it together for so long & then even the best crack. You don't even know why.

I believe we are seeing people starting to crack. OSA are no where as powerful as they would like others to believe. Undermanned & stupid under the weight of ronny boys ineffective "tech" they are not in control of anything the way I see it. Even a dirty tricks campaign like stirring up the members in incite violence is useless in this situation and I bet the few folk in OSA know this.

This is a backs to the wall situation. And there will free-falling displays of odd behaviour as individuals take matters into their hands as the mess becomes more apparent.

Just my views based on what I experienced.
 

anonmom

Patron with Honors
Another factor contributing to my theory that this violence is based on betrayal on an individual level is the basics have been on the street for about one year now. These basics were THE answer to stabilising the group, expanding it. Like the magic bullet. So here is the rank & file staff member (& the over-regged public), having worked their guts out for a year to adhere to this magic bullet program and they look out the door and see Anonymous - again - mth after mth. Shit that must be demoralising in the extreme.

I bet one of the lines being pushed to staff/public about Anon is that Anon are a "sign of success" in line with the "success" & "wonder" of the basics. In the absence of real proof to show that Anon are on the pay roll of the psychs, lol, the party line will go something like "Anon are the reason we are here, society is decaying under the influence of the psychs who infiltrated the education systems, justice systems, etc."

Take all of that, oh and the blood, sweat & tears for the damn endless endless ideal org program that is crawling along - and what do you have. Dissonance of extreme proportions. This is a hell of a lot for a hard working scio to align. I bet there are more scio's in doubt every day. The indoc can start to crumble, even if slightly, under this type of attack.

I can still remember what it was like to be on staff and to have to handle attacks & they were chicken shit compared to the level that has been pouring out the past few mths. You can hold it together for so long & then even the best crack. You don't even know why.

I believe we are seeing people starting to crack. OSA are no where as powerful as they would like others to believe. Undermanned & stupid under the weight of ronny boys ineffective "tech" they are not in control of anything the way I see it. Even a dirty tricks campaign like stirring up the members in incite violence is useless in this situation and I bet the few folk in OSA know this.

This is a backs to the wall situation. And there will free-falling displays of odd behaviour as individuals take matters into their hands as the mess becomes more apparent.

Just my views based on what I experienced.

Great post!

It's like watching a train wreck in very slow motion.
 

byte301

Crusader
Yeah, it all worries me. Not sure how it's all going to end. I just hope it isn't with a bang. I mean a literal bang. I do want to see Davey being carted off to jail crying. But I can be cruel that way.:eyeroll:

I agree that I don't want anyone else getting hurt on either side. I can see what your saying sallydance. I would probably go nuts too if I was still in under that pressure. I admit I have had violent thoughts about some of the $cilons and the crap they've pulled. Like the guy that blocked that little old lady in LA. And I'm not under any pressure. I just can't believe what I'm seeing sometimes.:no:
 
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