lotus , thanks - part of what I try to avoid is when it appears that someone is disrupting a thread INTENTIONALLY for fun or ...whatever .
So , if that appears to be the case to me I just discourage that and eventually add to ignore .
See , somebody bitterly disagreeing AND coming back again and again can be frustrating .
Of course I am not perfect and can knock out a person who is sincere and not a troll or jerk at all .
It happens . But I am not the God of ESMB and they can write THEIR OWN posts and threads and the community can judge and interact with them for themselves.
So , I do not knock out their free speech - I just discourage what COULD be their attempts to knock out MINE .
People can write - Mockingbird is wrong and an asshole and has his head fifty miles up his ass threads all day every day !
Knock yourself out ! I will happily write my Scientology is a fraud and hypnotic mind control and here is how it works and I want the cult taken down and I want YOU to do research on this stuff to benefit your own recovery etc. etc . threads !
See , you can use the Socratic method : " The oldest, and still the most powerful, teaching tactic for fostering critical thinking is Socratic teaching. In Socratic teaching we focus on giving students questions, not answers. We model an inquiring, probing mind by continually probing into the subject with questions. Fortunately, the abilities we gain by focusing on the elements of reasoning in a disciplined and self-assessing way, and the logical relationships that result from such disciplined thought, prepare us for Socratic questioning.
As a tactic and approach, Socratic questioning is a highly disciplined process. The Socratic questioner acts as the logical equivalent of the inner critical voice which the mind develops when it develops critical thinking abilities. The contributions from the members of the class are like so many thoughts in the mind. All of the thoughts must be dealt with and they must be dealt with carefully and fairly. By following up all answers with further questions, and by selecting questions which advance the discussion, the Socratic questioner forces the class to think in a disciplined, intellectually responsible manner, while yet continually aiding the students by posing facilitating questions.
A Socratic questioner should:
a) keep the discussion focused
b) keep the discussion intellectually responsible
c) stimulate the discussion with probing questions
d) periodically summarize what has and what has not been dealt with and/or resolved
e) draw as many students as possible into the discussion. "
Paul, R. and Elder, L. (April 1997). Foundation For Critical Thinking,
Online at website:
www.criticalthinking.org)
Now , I think the Socratic method is several thousand times better than Scientology indoctrination for developing one's mind .
I am not exaggerating that number at all .
But , before any one thinks I absolutely see it as a perfect method let me show you something.
The term, "Socratic paradox" can also refer to a self-referential paradox, originating in Socrates' utterance, "what I do not know I do not think I know", often paraphrased as "I know that I know nothing."
See , Socrates great emphasis on debate and thought and persuading in argument is somewhat... impractical - IF taken TOO far .
Maybe HE did not use it this way but some who have come after him act like using rhetoric and established rules of debate can make "winning " arguments or debates trump EVERYTHING !
Including common sense and reason ! See , if the great debater proudly proclaims they know nothing -to not have any position for opponents to attack -, simply say " so , do you need to eat to live ? " or something they demonstrably KNOW and will DO .
Yeah , yeah some will say this is all an illusion blah blah...BUT at some point if you move completely away from reality I say what are you doing besides pretending to be smart ?
And sometimes people acting like they are questioning are just trying to disrupt threads and you have to act differently than you would in discussion or debate .
From the Underground Bunker and the article Jon Atack on Scientology's methods of 'thought stopping '. - I will borrow the following quote:
The great philosopher, John Stuart Mill, opposed the authoritarian regime of his time in his remarkable text On Liberty, published in 1859. Among the good advice that he offers is this, and I recommend it as an antidote to the restrictive thinking of Scientology:
“There must be discussion to show how experience is to be interpreted. Wrong opinions and practices gradually yield to fact and argument; but facts and arguments, to produce any effect on the mind, must be brought before it. Very few facts are able to tell their own story, without comments to bring out their meaning. The whole strength and value, then, of human judgment depending on the one property, that it can be set right when it is wrong, reliance can be placed on it only when the means of setting it right are kept constantly at hand. In the case of any person whose judgement is really deserving of confidence, how has it become so? Because he has kept his mind open to criticism of his opinions and conduct.”
See , I understand MY opinions and ideas must be brought out to be examined and questioned and even at times disagreed with or refuted as the process of critical thinking.
Okay , they are falsifiable and that is how it should be.
BUT , BUT with the internet comes a new obstacle to communication and Socratic or any other reason ...and that is the troll !!!
The dreaded and loathsome creature does not play nice or fair and can disrupt threads ( and thought ) and trollish behavior - intended or not- has to be curtailed or you are just pissing up a tree .
Now , some can say I am too heavy handed and have my head three feet up my ass - and I cannot in fairness dispute this !
But , we all have to pick where to draw the line on some issues and this is it for me .
I hope for folks who stick around I and what I write helps - or at least entertains .