Oh boy , now you guys are having the kind of discussion I LIKE !!!
First I'll address Gib's excellent point about PDH .
Hub used the LIE that drugs are needed for mind control as a misdirection and as part of a larger method of confusion that permeates ALL his work in the doctrine of Dianetics and Scientology !
Arnie has pointed in the direction of this for some time by pointing out the reverse blockade from Political Ponerology :"Reverse Blockade: emphatically insisting upon something which is the opposite of the truth blocks the average person's mind from perceiving the truth. In accordance with the dictates of healthy common sense, he starts searching for meaning in the "golden mean" between truth and its opposite, winding up with some satisfactory counterfeit. People who think like this do not realize that this effect is precisely the intent of the person who subjects them to this method. "
Page 104, Political Ponerology by Andrew M. Lobaczewski
Arnie also points in the right direction when he talks of the importance of logical fallacies .The following is taken from the Nizkor project .
Also Known as: Golden Mean Fallacy, Fallacy of Moderation
[h=4]Description of Middle Ground[/h] This fallacy is committed when it is assumed that the middle position between two extremes must be correct simply because it is the middle position. this sort of "reasoning" has the following form:
- Position A and B are two extreme positions.
- C is a position that rests in the middle between A and B.
- Therefore C is the correct position.
This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because it does not follow that a position is correct just because it lies in the middle of two extremes. This is shown by the following example. Suppose that a person is selling his computer. He wants to sell it for the current market value, which is $800 and someone offers him $1 for it. It would hardly follow that $400.50 is the proper price.
This fallacy draws its power from the fact that a moderate or middle position is often the correct one. For example, a moderate amount of exercise is better than too much exercise or too little exercise. However, this is not simply because it lies in the middle ground between two extremes. It is because too much exercise is harmful and too little exercise is all but useless. The basic idea behind many cases in which moderation is correct is that the extremes are typically "too much" and "not enough" and the middle position is "enough." In such cases the middle position is correct almost by definition.
It should be kept in mind that while uncritically assuming that the middle position must be correct because it is the middle position is poor reasoning it does not follow that accepting a middle position is always fallacious. As was just mentioned, many times a moderate position is correct. However, the claim that the moderate or middle position is correct must be supported by legitimate reasoning.
[h=4]Examples of Middle Ground[/h]
- Some people claim that God is all powerful, all knowing, and all good. Other people claim that God does not exist at all. Now, it seems reasonable to accept a position somewhere in the middle. So, it is likely that God exists, but that he is only very powerful, very knowing, and very good. That seems right to me.
- Congressman Jones has proposed cutting welfare payments by 50% while Congresswoman Shender has proposed increasing welfare payments by 10% to keep up with inflation and cost of living increases. I think that the best proposal is the one made by Congressman Trumple. He says that a 30% decrease in welfare payments is a good middle ground, so I think that is what we should support.
- A month ago, a tree in Bill's yard was damaged in a storm. His neighbor, Joe, asked him to have the tree cut down so it would not fall on Joes new shed. Bill refused to do this. Two days ago another storm blew the tree onto Joe's new shed. Joe demanded that Joe pay the cost of repairs, which was $250. Bill said that he wasn't going to pay a cent. Obviously, the best solution is to reach a compromise between the two extremes, so Bill should pay Joe $125 dollars. end quote .
And I plan on writing a thread to more extensively expose the method - Jon Atack has a piece coming soon on the double bind as well .
I contend that the thousands of contradictory pieces of info function as embedded commands ( a technique I have written on before from NLP ) and with repetition and variation serve to confuse a victim's mind .
So , I both agree and will have a LOT more to say on this !!
Now as to Greylensman , your comments follow:
You are thinking of the deep fluttering eyes and walking like a chicken. That's not the hypnotism practiced, what was and is being done is way more long term, done right in front of you with your knowledge and participation.
- hypnosis is simply an altered state
- we naturally enter lots of altered states or trances ourselves every day
- it's not necessary to have your eyes closed
- hypnosis can be induced without words, and
- most importantly it reduces critical faculties and the ability to evaluate information and make decisions.
(from
http://www.decision-making-confidenc...d-control.html, just to give credit)
Scientology was systemically designed and patterned to reduce critical thinking, to love-bomb and then to specifically validate the person as a "big being" or "old thetan", and then to flow them through into the illusion and certainty they are helping the world (and conversely that if they betray the group they are damned for all eternity...).
Your entire existence as a "Scientologist" is influenced and with a lowered critical thinking capacity. The lack of sleep, the ridiculous demands, the constant hill 10 bullshit, Thursdays at 2 PM. All of that was intended and designed to reduce any independent or volitional thought about Scientology or about its purpose.
Everyone denying this dives immediately to auditing and the accusation that that was where the control lay, that auditing itself was the laying in of unknown control. Not necessarily at all. All auditing and TRs did was make the person enter a suggestible compliant state, or even a MORE suggestible and compliant state. But the hypnotic piece of it is in the whole experience.
see Steven Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control.
You were controlled, constantly subtly and intentionally. If anyone asked you at any point were you hypnotized you would (I did) answer that Scientology is the exact opposite of hypnotism, it wakes me up and I am more aware. If asked if you could question your religion you would answer that of course you could do that. And yet, deep down you knew, you knew, that that was not true.
Hypnotism.
I would argue that mindfulness creates similar states to auditing, at least successful auditing can, but that in neither case was that the immediate purpose. end quote.
I have been TRYING to explain this for months now !
You see , there is a very small number of people that just either do not get or agree or understand this vital point in understanding mind control !!!
Look , I am not looking for blind acceptance or submission .
I am not an authority or guru .
I want people to hear me out with an open mind AND strive to have an equal or adequate understanding of what I write about BEFORE trying to disagree .
And I especially am not interested in ad hominem or variations of it .
I want people to question , wonder and investigate the ideas I propose and theories behind them .
I am not looking to encourage blind agreement .
Parroting me or Jon or Arnie or Steve Hassan will not contribute to your recovery to me .
On your own working out what happened AND developing critical and independent thinking in a scientific way , learning about fallacies and logic , learning the Socratic method and developing a doubting - questioning approach to thinking and possibly a touch of skepticism ( okay I have more than a touch myself - I think I am a skeptic but I am not sure ) is to me much more beneficial for you and your future than agreeing with me ever will be .
See , Hub said he encouraged thinking in several ways and places in the doctrine but it was all absolute bullshit !
I will write ANOTHER thread specifically on thought stopping that will show actions that are specifically done exclusively to stop independent and critical thinking .
There are a LOT of them and a lot to say about that .
Well , at least as a critic of Scientology mind control I have no lack of material to write on !
If only Smersh paid me by the word...
Now , Eldritch Cuckoo , That is a great post on the fallacies and one I have in my collection too .
I of course have a thread planned on the dozens of common fallacies and several custom built complex ones that Hub implanted in Scientologists to both stop and channel thought in Scientologist's minds to make them robotic unthinking SLAVES until death .
This is to address the ad hominem and many other unthinking blind behaviors demonstrated often in Scientologists , exes , indies , freezoners and some who believe they are recovered .( Please DO NOT send me a torrent of " I do not do that " posts as they ARE this behavior !!
If you do not do this then that is great and you do not have to say it to me ! Please notice I wrote OFTEN not ALWAYS and YOU personally ! )
I also like Alanzo's article on hypnosis . And yeah Type 4 PTS Hub LIED to you !
I cannot stress enough that Hub's most consistent quality in my mind is that he was a pathological liar - even more than anything else !
And his purpose was obvious -he redefined terms to confuse , control and misdirect so as to defraud and enslave .
See , now we are getting to the heart of this and this is what I like !