Scientology Bait & Switch, part II

Operating DB

Truman Show Dropout
God! What a mess scientology was/is. This whole system built upon a false premise. No wonder we got so screwed up!
 

wigee1

Patron with Honors
Wow. You all know me by my story, not all this technical stuff! But now I am getting into it! I rarely do..... It's time though.


If they are determined to be not Clear, the Clear status is removed and then we look at what actions they have had already and if they were done correctly to EP or not. We start with Purif. Most may have had it. If it was EPed and no drugs since, then we would look at Objectives. I am not sure what the current change is in Objectives because even when I was in, the hours requirement was a big deal. Maybe not in Class V Orgs, but at CCI and ASHO, Objectives being done properly to completion were important for OT Levels starts. If the EP of Objectives was there, and they had audited enough hours on it, then Scn DRD would be done. Most had not had it. Then ARC Straightwire up to Grade IV would be done/ reviewed. If they were all ok and EPed (none ever were, they usually had to be redone). Then they would go onto a NED program like anyone else. And they would either go Clear, or go onto Alternate Route. Most would go Clear on NED auditing. A small percentage would go onto Alternate Route to Clear (which is Power, R6EW and Clearing Course, then onto OT I straight). They would attest to NED Case Completion and then do OT Preps and Solo I and II and then do Alternate Route.



-------

False Purpose RD had specific uses. For example if a persons OCA was low on the left, they would be out of valence and get LX Lists as part of OT Preps (with GF40X), if it were low on the right, they would get FPRD. The C/S (yours truly) would determine which areas the person would get FPRD on. Its glorified sec checking, basically, plus finding the underlying evil purpose and blowing it.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for starting this thread, I does fill in the gaps, I was around in 78 when all those policy letters BTBs came down think i counted about 90 in one week, the redefining of clear was a wake up point for me,:nervous: I would never have got the cog of" clear," even now. I remember been so messed up By.passed charge, you name it, I refused any ARC break or any handling,Sort of got the impression SCO, didnt know what to do with me, little did i know
many were in the same boat,The main thought i had running at that time was" SCO are so ir-responsible,"
:omg:"Looking at the bridge I would never, have made it, because all I wanted was to master the OT abilites that
Ive found or rehabed.See now heres a good action for a C/S,,, go out and prove it?. It must have been frustrating to be a C/s and see all this going on? Granitt.
 
Sort of. I think Dean says it pretty good in the post below yours.

But basically the person realizes they have been mocking up the reactive mind, that they mocked up their own bank.

It is not a present tense "I am mocking it up".

It's an "I did it in the first place, a long long long time ago. I used it as a defense mechanism. I thought I needed this thing (reactive mind) but I really don't!"



Call it a wholetrack cognition, if that makes it easier to understand what I mean. It is not a current, in auditing thing. One is not DOING IT right now. They did it to begin with.

And if they keep mocking it up, that's on them. That does not mean they are not Clear. Clear is an awareness that they are responsible for it coming into being in the first place. They were not handed it, they built it. Bang.

-------

Now the requirements are a different story (anyone who doesn't give a crap about this, skip the below, because it will be technical Scieno-speak)


The first is a wide, loose, floppy needle.
Then it was floating TA.

A person could go clear in a past life and that was automatically accepted, for a while. Then it was no longer accepted because someone supposedly faked it. So then it was a matter of getting the name of the past life person and pulling up the folders for that person, counting how many hours of Dianetics auditing they had, and also checking all of those past life sessions to see if there was a point in the auditing where they may have had this meter phenomena (If the past life was when metering was being used). That got a little hoaky for me.

For this lifetime Clears, we had to find and tab those things in the sessions as well. We had to find the session where they went Clear in the Dianetic auditing, in ADDITION to the CCRD with the Date/Locate on video with the end phenomena of the floating TA or wide, loose floppy F/N. The video had to be queued up to this needle phenomena, all of the Dianetics hours had to be added up and in the CSW we had to highlight how many hours of Dianetics a person had.

(This submission was for approval to attest to Clear, not to get onto OT Levels, that was another, separate CSW after Solo I, II, OT Preps and Elig)

-------

And then around 99 or 2000, an IG Network Bulletin came out where if a person had not outright stated the Clear Cog, we could interview them and fish around to get it. Hopefully so they did not have to pay to get a new CCRD. That hardly worked. Very few came out with it in the interview. If they did spit it out, we would tab that, count the number of Dianetics hours and submit approval to do OT Levels.

------

I remember a PC when I was at ASHO. I was not the C/S. Bruce Gaines was. What a sad, sweet guy. The girl DID NOT HAVE ANY CLEAR EVIDENCE and she was told so. She flipped out and went to the RTC office at AOLA and tried to assault the RTC Rep. So she (RTC Rep) requested all of the folders and told Bruce to review everything. Both of us went through everything with a fine tooth comb. It was not there and I told Bruce that. He started to cry.

Next thing I knew she was started on OT I.

I was like "WTF???"

Maybe if I go try to beat up an RTC Rep they will give me something for nothing too!!!

Why does it need to be about past tense?
If a person realizes it (bank, engram, condition -whatever) is a mock up, then it is being mocked up "now" while it is affecting them -or while it is being audited. The mock-up must be now for it to exist now and if the person ceases mocking it up (along with the mocked-up discomforts etc)
then is just isn't there. AFAICS adding history to it as in "I mocked it up in the past" may be a way of stopping a mock up too. But surely, if a person is now "in present time", it is in present time that the mocking up needs to cease. So IF IT WERE TRUE, that certain conditions were caused by a persons own will -or determinism- then they could in theory choose to cease those conditions by fully realizing that they were doing it of their own volition and could stop. NOW. Of course if they had been doing it for years or (in theory) lifetimes, that would entail that they originally started it. But you seem to minimize present time. Surely the present is more important and if it is realized as a present thing then the past is included by default -it is entailed.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Why does it need to be about past tense?
If a person realizes it (bank, engram, condition -whatever) is a mock up, then it is being mocked up "now" while it is affecting them -or while it is being audited. The mock-up must be now for it to exist now and if the person ceases mocking it up (along with the mocked-up discomforts etc)
then is just isn't there. AFAICS adding history to it as in "I mocked it up in the past" may be a way of stopping a mock up too. But surely, if a person is now "in present time", it is in present time that the mocking up needs to cease. So IF IT WERE TRUE, that certain conditions were caused by a persons own will -or determinism- then they could in theory choose to cease those conditions by fully realizing that they were doing it of their own volition and could stop. NOW. Of course if they had been doing it for years or (in theory) lifetimes, that would entail that they originally started it. But you seem to minimize present time. Surely the present is more important and if it is realized as a present thing then the past is included by default -it is entailed.

You are talking about mocking up pictures. I am talking about the entire reactive mind, which, in Scientologese, was mocked up. I am talking about a mechanism... The person mocks up this mind and uses it as a self-protection mechanism. Sounds to me what you are talking about is mocking up the pictures. Current pictures. The mind, like a cookie jar, is filled with pictures (cookies). You are talking about the cookies. I am talking about the jar. And the jar was made a long time ago.

I am not saying it makes sense. I just tellin' it the way they think it be.

-----

"I stopped mocking up my reactive mind" is not a Clear Cog either.


If you can't understand this, I want you to go clay demo every paragraph I have written in this thread, take a picture of them and post them for me to check out, to see if you really get this!!! :whistling:

------

There were lots of disputes about this. But they got really really tight on this point. To get onto the OT Levels, it had to be right. (All the ones I dealt with had to, and were, approved through RTC up to 2004).
 

Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
A very important point here regarding "Clear" and the "Clear Cognition" is that just because you have this cognition still does not make you clear.

As far as I am concerned Hubbard fell short on that promise. I do not believe that anyone is a "Clear". I don't believe in Clears, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny. Hubbard said there was such a thing as clear. He said you get to that state by auditing on Dianetics and if you don't get there on Dianetics you do the Clearing Course. R 6 End Words and the Clearing Course are all part of the OT 3 incident which I also don't believe in. That's right I think ol' L Ron Hubbard made it all up. Xenu, H Bombs on volcanoes, packaging on Hawaii or Las Palmas, transport from another solar system to Teegeeack, the whole effing thing mocked up by Hubbard hisself.
 

Mojo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Follow those exact links in the blog post.



Somewhere in the ballpark of USD 250K

That's where you failed Isene. Had you spent 260K you would be where I am. I have perfect recall of everything I have experienced over the past 75 trillion years. Seriously. And I could tell you exactly what happened, and I would, but I don't want to overwhelm you. Besides do the math, it would take me the next 75 trillion years to recount the last 75 trillion years. But I digress.

Let us not beat around the bush. L. Ron Hubbard is God. Face it. He alone broke through the wall of fire did he not? Yes, he did. And he saved all of humanity because of it. I know. I was there (and so were you). The fire was small in the beginning, but it grew, and grew. Next thing we all knew it was devouring all of humanity. And then Ron appeared. And he was on a white horse. I kid you naught. Just then the heavens opened up and rain began to fall. And it rained for 40 days and for 40 forty nights (which is what the biblical thing was trying to describe).

Bottom line Ron saved us from ourselves. Singlehandedly. Bravely. Selflessly. Remarkably.

Come back to us Isene. It is your only hope of eternal salvation. Otherwise, well, you are fucked. I know. Ron said so.

much love,
mojo
 

Veda

Sponsor
Sort of. I think Dean says it pretty good in the post below yours.

But basically the person realizes they have been mocking up the reactive mind, that they mocked up their own bank.

It is not a present tense "I am mocking it up".

It's an "I did it in the first place, a long long long time ago. I used it as a defense mechanism. I thought I needed this thing (reactive mind) but I really don't!"

Not a present tense "mocking it up"? Mmmm... Curious as to Dulloldfart's input on this.


Call it a wholetrack cognition, if that makes it easier to understand what I mean. It is not a current, in auditing thing. One is not DOING IT right now. They did it to begin with.

And if they keep mocking it up, that's on them. That does not mean they are not Clear. Clear is an awareness that they are responsible for it coming into being in the first place. They were not handed it, they built it. Bang.

-------

Now the requirements are a different story (anyone who doesn't give a crap about this, skip the below, because it will be technical Scieno-speak)


The first is a wide, loose, floppy needle.
Then it was floating TA.

A person could go clear in a past life and that was automatically accepted, for a while. Then it was no longer accepted because someone supposedly faked it. So then it was a matter of getting the name of the past life person and pulling up the folders for that person, counting how many hours of Dianetics auditing they had, and also checking all of those past life sessions to see if there was a point in the auditing where they may have had this meter phenomena (If the past life was when metering was being used). That got a little hoaky for me.

For this lifetime Clears, we had to find and tab those things in the sessions as well. We had to find the session where they went Clear in the Dianetic auditing, in ADDITION to the CCRD with the Date/Locate on video with the end phenomena of the floating TA or wide, loose floppy F/N. The video had to be queued up to this needle phenomena, all of the Dianetics hours had to be added up and in the CSW we had to highlight how many hours of Dianetics a person had.

(This submission was for approval to attest to Clear, not to get onto OT Levels, that was another, separate CSW after Solo I, II, OT Preps and Elig)

-------

And then around 99 or 2000, an IG Network Bulletin came out where if a person had not outright stated the Clear Cog, we could interview them and fish around to get it. Hopefully so they did not have to pay to get a new CCRD. That hardly worked. Very few came out with it in the interview. If they did spit it out, we would tab that, count the number of Dianetics hours and submit approval to do OT Levels.

------

I remember a PC when I was at ASHO. I was not the C/S. Bruce Gaines was. What a sad, sweet guy. The girl DID NOT HAVE ANY CLEAR EVIDENCE and she was told so. She flipped out and went to the RTC office at AOLA and tried to assault the RTC Rep. So she (RTC Rep) requested all of the folders and told Bruce to review everything. Both of us went through everything with a fine tooth comb. It was not there and I told Bruce that. He started to cry.

Next thing I knew she was started on OT I.

I was like "WTF???"

Maybe if I go try to beat up an RTC Rep they will give me something for nothing too!!!

Well, it does appear that there were people in the CofS - under Miscavige - who were really trying to make the dog's breakfast, that Hubbard left behind, "work."

Thanks for the additional info.
 

Mojo

Silver Meritorious Patron
Not a present tense "mocking it up"? Mmmm... Curious as to Dulloldfart's input on this:

'Call it a whole-track cognition, if that makes it easier to understand what I mean. It is not a current, in auditing thing. One is not DOING IT right now. They did it to begin with.

And if they keep mocking it up, that's on them. That does not mean they are not Clear. Clear is an awareness that they are responsible for it coming into being in the first place. They were not handed it, they built it'.
Bang.

Bang. Nice. Indeed!

And, the un-obvious presence of the dual-identity of being is at work here, which Hubbard knew and withheld. Namely/to wit: One IS doing it, and one IS NOT doing it, simultaneously. Thus the primary-fracturing of the Wholeness-of-Identity is accomplished. In time[/B](via-time).[/B]

Brilliant.

mojo

(note to self):If wisdom appears as the spiritual-radiance of subjective (hidden) invisible-light, ignorance must also appear likewise, elsewise the meaning of the game of understanding both truth & error is meaningless. Though life is-not without meaning. And nor is the game, of Being. Save in the (temporary) ignorance of it. In which we all must share...both sides. At one point 'in time', or another. (carry on)
 
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Veda

Sponsor
And this "tech" discussion already occurred, so it's probably not worth revisiting. But just to show how many "takes" on the "tech" there were/are inside the CofS, where well-meaning, dedicated, tech people were struggling to "make it work," I'll re-post this.

By Dulloldfart, from the Clear cognition thread of August/September 2012:

***CONFIDENTIAL*** ***CLEAR COGNITION***

I really don't know if this will mess up anyone's case if they are not "Clear", or what the state really means any more, if it even exists. However...

A couple of people have posted here recently saying the Clear Cog is realizing that "I mocked up my Reactive Mind." It isn't. It is realizing that "I am mocking up my Reactive Mind." It is completely different, completely. Completely.

"Mocking up" means doing it in present time, right now, continuously, repetitively, each instant as it goes by, bam, bam, bam, bam, Hubbard said 25 times a second in the famous 1963 Time Track HCOBs. It's not that one mocked it up once, like you had an accident ten years ago and made a picture of it (engram) at the time and you sort of carry that picture around with you ever after, having made it in the past. You are creating that picture in a new unit of time every instant POW POW POW POW POW, at least, you are when it is in restim to some extent.

Don't ask me the exact mechanics of this. It implies that Hubbard had it all right, and he didn't.

For some reason the difference between mocked it up in the past and mocking it up continuously in present time is hard for some people to grasp. I remember a Grad V guy I checked out on auditing the CCRD around 1993. He was "OT VIII." He had a cold, and look a real mess. After about an hour of trying to get him to see the difference - and I was a trained sup and knew about misunderstoods and earlier similar mis-u's and e/s subjects etc. - I finally "realized" that the reason he couldn't see it (and also why he was in such a mess case-wise) was because he wasn't personally Clear. Now I don't know at all, but I have had trouble with other people - who attested OT whatever in the CofS and were Class VI and so forth - not easily grasping the difference between having mocked it up PFFT! at some point in the past and mocking it up in present time now now now now now now now now now now now now now...

Get the idea? If not, I tried!

Paul

The pattern seems to be,

1) Hubbard, sometimes on a whim, decides "A".

2) Scientologists take "A" as "truth."

3) Scientologists attempt to make sense of "A."

4) " " " " attempt to make "A" work.

5) "A" doesn't work. Dedicated tech people attempt to change "A" - without "altering tech" or "making LRH wrong" - so as to make "A" (slightly and discreetly modified) "work."

6) Hubbard changes his mind, and say "B."

7) Repeat.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
And this "tech" discussion already occurred, so it's probably not worth revisiting. But just to show how many "takes" on the "tech" there were/are inside the CofS, where well-meaning, dedicated, tech people were struggling to "make it work," I'll re-post this.

By Dulloldfart, from the Clear cognition thread of August/September 2012:



The pattern seems to be,

1) Hubbard, sometimes on a whim, decides "A".

2) Scientologists take "A" as "truth."

3) Scientologists attempt to make sense of "A."

4) " " " " attempt to make "A" work.

5) "A" doesn't work. Dedicated tech people attempt to change "A" - without "altering tech" or "making LRH wrong" - so as to make "A" (slightly and discreetly modified) "work."

6) Hubbard changes his mind, and say "B."

7) Repeat.



At least Hubbard wasn't aberrated, consistent with his referencing the word's origin--"to wander away from a straight line"--rather than going from point "A" to point "B". LOL
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Not a present tense "mocking it up"? Mmmm... Curious as to Dulloldfart's input on this.
....
It's both of those things. Right up until the point the guy goes "Clear" (whatever that state really is) he's still creating it. The point where he sees for himself that he is creating it, followed by the realisation that he doesn't have to keep creating it (unless he's an idiot), is the point where "whatever that state is" occurs.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
And this "tech" discussion already occurred, so it's probably not worth revisiting. But just to show how many "takes" on the "tech" there were/are inside the CofS, where well-meaning, dedicated, tech people were struggling to "make it work," I'll re-post this.

By Dulloldfart, from the Clear cognition thread of August/September 2012:



The pattern seems to be,

1) Hubbard, sometimes on a whim, decides "A".

2) Scientologists take "A" as "truth."

3) Scientologists attempt to make sense of "A."

4) " " " " attempt to make "A" work.

5) "A" doesn't work. Dedicated tech people attempt to change "A" - without "altering tech" or "making LRH wrong" - so as to make "A" (slightly and discreetly modified) "work."

6) Hubbard changes his mind, and say "B."

7) Repeat.


Thanks Veda for finding this.

I am curious, before I comment on it, if DOF can enlighten us on where this information he is writing comes from? What training did he have and when was it?

(This, more than anything, is to prove my original point of constantly changing tech and requirements).
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Bea, I agree with what you've written about it but it is a combination of both. Some people interpret 'mocking it up' as 'imagining it' rather than as creating it. See my post above.

Before you ask, I delivered a lot of CCRD and DCSI too.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Bea, I agree with what you've written about it but it is a combination of both. Some people interpret 'mocking it up' as 'imagining it' rather than as creating it. See my post above.

Before you ask, I delivered a lot of CCRD and DCSI too.

Nothing personal but it's a sore subject and gets me grumbling for whatever reason.

I don't know why it does. That grumbling was the begining of the end. And out of it came the best things that could ever happen to me (starting and raising a family).

So while I grumble, I smile.

I don't know that I have anything else to add to this thread.

But this:

Every 6 months or so there would be something else about Clear and the Clear cog that we would all have to get corrected on and recheck cases to make sure they made it. I am not trying to negate what you say, but unless you were on lines 15 minutes ago and got a new star-rate and word clearing on the bulletin yet again, then you don't know what you are talking about. That's how it goes in the cult of never-ending changing standard tech!!!

The information I wrote above is as of 2004.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It's both of those things. Right up until the point the guy goes "Clear" (whatever that state really is) he's still creating it. The point where he sees for himself that he is creating it, followed by the realisation that he doesn't have to keep creating it (unless he's an idiot), is the point where "whatever that state is" occurs.


Ah, yes, the vaunted "Clear Cog".

Wogs call it "
changing your mind".

But when it happens, they don't applaud and give each other certificates.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I believe Bea is saying that after Dianetic auditing one has the cog or realization that they were mocking it up in the first place not that they were already clear. Once they realize that they were creating the bank or mocking it up to begin with, they then become clear. I audited CCRDS from when the CCRD came out until 1991 when I left and we even did CCRDs on some OTs with resultant upsets. The worms in those cans were not happy.


Allow me to FIFY:

The worms on those cans were not happy.
 

Gib

Crusader
It's both of those things. Right up until the point the guy goes "Clear" (whatever that state really is) he's still creating it. The point where he sees for himself that he is creating it, followed by the realisation that he doesn't have to keep creating it (unless he's an idiot), is the point where "whatever that state is" occurs.

I believe that would be self determinism, clear. A person determining his own future, not his parents desires of him, or his girlfriends, or his government, or his group, or his animals, or his spirits attached to him.

But hubbard promised Homo Novis per dianetics, and he promised

or hyped up states of existance such as cause over matter, energy, space and time. LOL
 

Gib

Crusader
Ah, yes, the vaunted "Clear Cog".

Wogs call it "
changing your mind".

But when it happens, they don't applaud and give each other certificates.

nor do they charge you for intensives to change your mind.

As hubbard said, the eaiest thing a thetan does is change his mind. LOL

Hubbard figured out how to get people to change their minds and charge them money for it.

The work was free, so keep it so. :roflmao:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
nor do they charge you for intensives to change your mind.

As hubbard said, the eaiest thing a thetan does is change his mind. LOL

Hubbard figured out how to get people to change their minds and charge them money for it.

The work was free, so keep it so. :roflmao:


After the absurd amount money that is paid to the cult in order to go "Clear", the Clear Cog should rightfully be:

"I am mucking up my own bank (account)"
 
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