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Scientology CAUSES mental illness

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I am not an OT (I haven’t reached even the level of Clear), but I read some articles about the OT auditing. During the OT sessions people talk to the spirits (thetans) as if those spirits were real. In other words, the OTs hear voices in their heads. If this is not a clear sign of mental illness, I don’t know what is.

That is one symptom of schizophrenia.

Also, so-called "going exterior" is really one symptom of "dissociation".
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Type4_PTS wrote this on the Lisa thread and it may be already flogged to death but...
My brief brush with a psychological practice has made me believe that each and everyone of us could be diagnosed with some type of psychological disorder. IMO I don't think there is a perfectly psychologically balanced person in all 7 billion of us. We are all flawed and just muddle on as best we can.

So what can be directly attributable to Scientology?

As an outsider I would say that there a number of people who have PTSD who absolutely wouldn't have it without their direct involvement with Scientology.

What about arrogance that masks the fear of not being good enough? Arrogance seems very prevalent amongst the still in and can be sometimes in some of the Indie comments. Does the fear of being "caught" not being clear/OT/making it go right aggravate arrogance? Or are people just born arrogant and in-built behaviour pattern?

What do you think?


NO! Scio does not CAUSE the mental illness! What Scio does is manipulate and ABUSE, creating slaves to believe in an ideology that does not exist or can function in the norm of society, ANY society. It prays on the weak, it seeks victims! Scio is a predator!

Mental illness is a dysfunctional attribute within the person... Scio uses the environmental attributes to control the behavior of their subjects. The difference between someone actually having a mental illness as opposed to those in Scio is that the Scio's are affected by their environment.

A healthy mind will heal. In other words, once removed from the unhealthy environment, the person will recover. In the instances of true mental illness, they illness will still be prominent regardless of the environment.

There are about seven (I think) recognized mental illnesses... the rest of us are just in the norm. The "norm" will go through experience or phases that mimics mental illness but soon dissipates. For example, a phase can be that of worrying about leaving the iron on after leaving for work. While going back to check so many times, the person soon grows "tired" of always checking and eventually figures out a way to prevent the worry from happening and eventually stops worrying about it. The resolution can be not to use the iron in the morning or something else but whatever resolves the situation it is environmental in nature, not a mental illness (paranoia in this case.)

So, NO Scio does not CAUSE mental illness... Scio IS a mental illness but the persons trapped into their environment is NOT mentally ill. There is a difference! Remove them and put them into a healthy environment, the person is fine and in the norm.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
NO! Scio does not CAUSE the mental illness! What Scio does is manipulate and ABUSE, creating slaves to believe in an ideology that does not exist or can function in the norm of society, ANY society. It prays on the weak, it seeks victims! Scio is a predator!

Mental illness is a dysfunctional attribute within the person... Scio uses the environmental attributes to control the behavior of their subjects. The difference between someone actually having a mental illness as opposed to those in Scio is that the Scio's are affected by their environment.

A healthy mind will heal. In other words, once removed from the unhealthy environment, the person will recover. In the instances of true mental illness, they illness will still be prominent regardless of the environment.

There are about seven (I think) recognized mental illnesses... the rest of us are just in the norm. The "norm" will go through experience or phases that mimics mental illness but soon dissipates. For example, a phase can be that of worrying about leaving the iron on after leaving for work. While going back to check so many times, the person soon grows "tired" of always checking and eventually figures out a way to prevent the worry from happening and eventually stops worrying about it. The resolution can be not to use the iron in the morning or something else but whatever resolves the situation it is environmental in nature, not a mental illness (paranoia in this case.)

So, NO Scio does not CAUSE mental illness... Scio IS a mental illness but the persons trapped into their environment is NOT mentally ill. There is a difference! Remove them and put them into a healthy environment, the person is fine and in the norm.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

I beg to differ Bee Sting. I am a strong person - really strong. I am intelligent, not weak and can hold my own...which is probably why I never joined staff or got scammed to the point of bk and foreclosure...but from my experience, I was mentally ill when I left...I felt like I was losing my mind...and I was. I did not know if I would recover, but I have. I am 90% there to full capacity. (some of you may beg to differ LOL) but I am feeling more myself; stable, clear headed and ready and able to solve my problems again. I am still very pissed about what this cult is getting away with but that is a normal reaction to witnessing the criminal activity the cult gets away with. That is all changing now - thanks to the ones that sue the shit out of Scientology and go to the media. Fair game is now coming to an end. Thanks to cameras on I-Phones etc...we can video everything the cult does and send it out to the World.

Scientology nearly pushed me over the edge and I never had thoughts of wanting to die like I did when I was in the cult...never to the point of suicide but I just did not have any goals, felt hopeless and in apathy about everything pertaining to life and living. If I had died - it did not matter to me at that time. I could not experience any pleasure because I had been convinced my goals were not important and only Scientology goals were. The cult uses covert invalidation and nullification and are very clever with this tactic.

There were many things that helped me get my mind back and the majority of work I did was studying Tubb's and his mind controlling cult tactics.

Life is good again, I have goals I am excited about and back on my spiritual journey which was where I left off before getting trapped in the cult of Scientology. I feel love and joy and peace.

Thanks to everyone here who spoke out - your posts helped me tremendously.

So anyone feeling broken and shattered - know that you will recover. It does not have to take forever either. Perhaps when Steve Hassan and others wrote about the length of time it took to recover from a cult (I think they mentioned an average 12 years), that was before the internet when information was not so readily available.

That is my opinion based on my experience.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
There are degrees and variations of mental illness. Scientology experiences and indoctrination scars people, some more than others. It's like arrested development for many. Most people walk into scientology yearning for some truth, some closure on an open wound or fixing of a lack of knowledge. What scientology does it fill in the blanks with such dangerous information and experiences that most cannot help but be altered by it. Leaving scientology is a process of discarding the layer upon layer of false data, false conclusions, bad information and traumatic situations agreed upon, coupled with hypnotic like effects of false promises of spiritual freedom aided by false memories created in auditing.

Its a wonder more have not gone completely nuts and not recovered a some have.

The best way out is out the door, into real life, and over to the Liberty Tree called the internet where free thought, free speech and comradery is there for the taking at one's own pace. It's cathartic to know that one was not alone in their thinking, their trauma, their destroyed life. Some recover faster than others. Some are so damaged that they act out the very worst of what scientology was to them and others, and fail to change. Some can never get over the deprivation, the losses, that mental mess they wound up in, never seeking appropriate help, sometimes seeking other alternative and useless methods to try and undo the damage. But reading other's stories and experiences can be a cleansing thing... and getting some decent real counseling can be very beneficial
 

JustSheila

Crusader
One of the concepts in this book Lotus recommended, The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion, is that the mind has no "negation" facility.

The concept is well supported by a lot of research, some of it recent, some of it going way back. If you tell someone NOT to think of a polar bear, they'll think of a polar bear.

The principle is that whatever we try not to put our attention on or to do away with, well, that's what we get. If you think of "no more BTs", you will get BTs. If you think of "I have more case to handle", well, you'll have more case to handle.

It's really mind-blowing when I applied this to myself.

Scientology definitely DOES put mental concepts in one's mind of things that are wrong with a person that were never even there as concepts before Scientology. It focuses on getting rid of negatives. This creates more negatives.

L Ron Hubbard died overwhelmed, screaming at BTs.

Other Scientology OTs have had similar tragic endings.

IMHO, Scientology creates mental illness.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
One of the concepts in this book Lotus recommended, The Mindful Path to Self-Compassion, is that the mind has no "negation" facility.

The concept is well supported by a lot of research, some of it recent, some of it going way back. If you tell someone NOT to think of a polar bear, they'll think of a polar bear.

The principle is that whatever we try not to put our attention on or to do away with, well, that's what we get. If you think of "no more BTs", you will get BTs. If you think of "I have more case to handle", well, you'll have more case to handle.

It's really mind-blowing when I applied this to myself.

Scientology definitely DOES put mental concepts in one's mind of things that are wrong with a person that were never even there as concepts before Scientology. It focuses on getting rid of negatives. This creates more negatives.

L Ron Hubbard died overwhelmed, screaming at BTs.

Other Scientology OTs have had similar tragic endings.

IMHO, Scientology creates mental illness.

:yes:

That's the concept I did talk about in a short review I made about the book and that I related to how $cientology did take control of our mind and behavior. I guess we conclude about the same.

It couljd be proof with many $cn things , like out-ethics. You are said you are out-ethics and try to get rid of your out-ethics. Same for sexuality . You are denied any sexuality, as well as masturbation.
Then your learn it's a sin and can create mental image and built a bank. So you try to get rid of masturbation , even to think about it. Same for production. You believe you did a great job, but your statistics shows you are an ennemy or a treator - then you feel bad and are ''processed'' with ethics to work as a slave in giving more and more. Even to willingly enter the RPF , to rehabilitate yourself in a labour camp, because of pseudo-crimes you never did. You are convinced you did crimes.

All these implanted problems of mind and behavior , which were not problem at all, previously, becomes issues to solve - to heal - to clear (auditing) or to avoid (ethics)

This particular part really made me see how $cn tech control the mind content, then shapes the behavior and creates need for relief as we become like an implanted robot but also need fo atonement and rehabilitation as criminals.

It's so simple, easy, and efficient for a sociopath creating a religion, to apply such mind shaping to his followers, especially with hypnosis techniques used.

I've seen the same in the past with people almost ''psychotics'' with the fundamentalist catholic and the sins - they were constantly focussing on the pseudo-sins they comit ,all day long, and did confessed on a daily basis. :confused2:

The problem is one becomes so introverted with his pseudo-problems to handle, , he can't see it as the compulsive need to handle is implanted thauthts.:confused2:

I recently discover something mind-boggling on researching OT8 materials.
Apparently , on OT8, one runs the mocked-up BT's he previously found, and finds wich one never existed
:omg:

It's amazing - it's all designed to give you a relief while you are so overwhelmed with it - for years of chasing & handling.
So instead of seeing the scam, you are expected to cognite and find relief. :duh:

So how do we call the state of mind youare implanted to think for year you are possessed with entities you talk to, you handle and later on you realize it never existed! :unsure:

I now understand the very bad indicators of some friends on OT8.
 
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Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
I beg to differ Bee Sting. I am a strong person - really strong. I am intelligent, not weak and can hold my own...which is probably why I never joined staff or got scammed to the point of bk and foreclosure...but from my experience, I was mentally ill when I left...I felt like I was losing my mind...and I was. I did not know if I would recover, but I have. I am 90% there to full capacity. (some of you may beg to differ LOL) but I am feeling more myself; stable, clear headed and ready and able to solve my problems again. I am still very pissed about what this cult is getting away with but that is a normal reaction to witnessing the criminal activity the cult gets away with. That is all changing now - thanks to the ones that sue the shit out of Scientology and go to the media. Fair game is now coming to an end. Thanks to cameras on I-Phones etc...we can video everything the cult does and send it out to the World.

Scientology nearly pushed me over the edge and I never had thoughts of wanting to die like I did when I was in the cult...never to the point of suicide but I just did not have any goals, felt hopeless and in apathy about everything pertaining to life and living. If I had died - it did not matter to me at that time. I could not experience any pleasure because I had been convinced my goals were not important and only Scientology goals were. The cult uses covert invalidation and nullification and are very clever with this tactic.

There were many things that helped me get my mind back and the majority of work I did was studying Tubb's and his mind controlling cult tactics.

Life is good again, I have goals I am excited about and back on my spiritual journey which was where I left off before getting trapped in the cult of Scientology. I feel love and joy and peace.

Thanks to everyone here who spoke out - your posts helped me tremendously.

So anyone feeling broken and shattered - know that you will recover. It does not have to take forever either. Perhaps when Steve Hassan and others wrote about the length of time it took to recover from a cult (I think they mentioned an average 12 years), that was before the internet when information was not so readily available.

That is my opinion based on my experience.


Sounds like you are in a much better place now and on the road to a full recovery! :) Keep on going, life is so much better without Sci-FI-ology ! :yes:


Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I'm not going to lie about what I think no matter what anyone says. I realize that the last time I said something somewhat similar, it was not well received, but fuck it. I'm gonna be honest and candid, as always.

I see nothing wrong with auditing. It's no longer my thing, of course, but I don't see a problem with two people sitting down and doing some auditing. I do think the eternal grinding on OTVII is exasperating and, of course, a money drain par excellence, but that's pretty much about it. Or somebody does some TRs or word clearing. So what.

I see it as just another methodology.

If it tips someone over the edge, this would have likely also happened with other forms of counselling, both accredited/recognized by the AMA and New Age.

However, that being said, people do go nuts from being part of it. When people are abused, forced to disconnect, have their private lives scrutinzed, their children regged and recruited, threatened, money drained, love bombed one week and shunned or screamed at the next, it fucks them up. I'd say it provides mixed signals but that is too mild a term for it. (Though it does provide mixed signals.) One minute they're all happy with ya, next minute they're slapping ya (Like they did to Maria Pia Gardini, RIP). They're (staff) talking about self determined this and that, then they tell you that you cannot leave, that you cannot see someone cuz they are declared or even that they are in serious ethics trouble and not even declared. They're telling you that no matter what the problem is, Scn can help you with that. Most people's problems are along the lines of getting along ok at home, money, job. But by the time the organization's done with a lot of members - this is all stuff I've seen or been told of by people who experienced it (plus a threat from them that I experienced re my marriage)- have no job, home, family or money left.

It not only does not "help you with that" but it generally accomplishes the opposite. The most common modern problems one can find- and you know that regges will always say Scn'll help with those things- and the cult makes it ten times worse.

It's like Bizarro World. (remember that? Superman comics and alluded to in the wonderful Seinfeld show)

I think that yo yoing people around makes them lose their bearings. Worse yet, losing your job, home, family, finances, self respect- that screws with one's head even more.

To me, it's no wonder that a lot of Scn'ists end up suicides or having psychological problems. I think that the scenarios I've described are the main reasons.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
....

I see nothing wrong with auditing. It's no longer my thing, of course, but I don't see a problem with two people sitting down and doing some auditing.
....

I see it as just another methodology.

I snipped for brevity.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with two people sitting down talking through life-issues in a supportive mode.

But in scientology, often people are talking through made-up scenarios with pre-defined EPs with many unacceptable topics. I think it was Nibs (Ron De Wolf) that said this - it was done on purpose to mess people up. It feels right, but it is just leading people deeper into a manipulative trap of being under more control.

It's not 'just another methodology' unless the group of methodologies you draw from includes those with evil intent.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I snipped for brevity.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with two people sitting down talking through life-issues in a supportive mode.

But in scientology, often people are talking through made-up scenarios with pre-defined EPs with many unacceptable topics. I think it was Nibs (Ron De Wolf) that said this - it was done on purpose to mess people up. It feels right, but it is just leading people deeper into a manipulative trap of being under more control.

It's not 'just another methodology' unless the group of methodologies you draw from includes those with evil intent.

I was trying to write a reply to Claire
when I saw your's

Pretty much my thaughts - well written!

I remember when coming in $cientology , auditing was describeed in div6 courses as one who listens to one who is talking without evaluation or judgement. Wow - fine - perfect
It's like the best friend or therapist on can have.

But
This is not what auditing is about. It's a vicious process that doesn't resemble in any way the action of listenning to someone. It's primary about getting answers to specific questions and getting people to have specific cognitions and belief. This is why a lie detector is needed - to locate specifics answers to specific question.

I also believe the auditing processes are about to mess up people so they need more auditing, for a lifetime, because they have been convinced they have very many issues and BT's to handle.

Auditing shall be called : ''Interrogation'' or ''questioning''
the auditor shall be called: '' electro meter operator''

Each single time I used my e-meter it was to ask specific questions and in no time I sat to listen, as an auditor, without the lie detector, to only listen to them.

This is fordidden for one to talk to another about his\her upset. (even though your spouse)
Copyrighted $camology - the mind & behavior control

No money ??? No candy - no auditor , no relief , no human sharing!
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
>snip< I see nothing wrong with auditing.

>snip< I said I had no problem with someone wanting to audit a child.

I see it as just another methodology.

$cientology isn't just another "methodology." That's misleading turd gilding. $cientology is a mind control cult that was honed through the decades by elcon with carefully laid out progressive indoctrination which is why he was always rewriting the the tek and bridge. From the get go at an introductory level; Intro courses, books, tapes and especially auditing are the operant conditioning that cognitively modifies behavior into what is an acceptable pliant rondroid. Add in the "mystique and belonging" of being a $cientologist with love bombing redefining one's vocabulary with cult words and $cio ethics/policies with a cherry on top for sumptuous turd tasting contrast. Not anything I would wish on anyone.

If it tips someone over the edge, this would have likely also happened with other forms of counselling, both accredited/recognized by the AMA and New Age.

Wrong, $cientology isn't counseling and that's purely speculative conjecturing dismissing and excusing what $cientology actually does to a person. Here's an example of what $cientology achieves:

Mike Rinder: Super Power Win “Feeling the Bacteria On My Skin”
http://www.mikerindersblog.org/can-feel-bacteria-skin-wackiness/

KOOK1.jpg


Excerpt from Mike's analysis:

:headspin:

However, that being said, people do go nuts from being part of it. When people are abused, forced to disconnect, have their private lives scrutinzed, their children regged and recruited, threatened, money drained, love bombed one week and shunned or screamed at the next, it fucks them up. I'd say it provides mixed signals but that is too mild a term for it. (Though it does provide mixed signals.) One minute they're all happy with ya, next minute they're slapping ya (Like they did to Maria Pia Gardini, RIP). They're (staff) talking about self determined this and that, then they tell you that you cannot leave, that you cannot see someone cuz they are declared or even that they are in serious ethics trouble and not even declared. They're telling you that no matter what the problem is, Scn can help you with that. Most people's problems are along the lines of getting along ok at home, money, job. But by the time the organization's done with a lot of members - this is all stuff I've seen or been told of by people who experienced it (plus a threat from them that I experienced re my marriage)- have no job, home, family or money left.

$cientology auditing is why $cio's are cognitively dissonant not seeing the obvious red flags you listed.

It not only does not "help you with that" but it generally accomplishes the opposite. The most common modern problems one can find- and you know that regges will always say Scn'll help with those things- and the cult makes it ten times worse.

It's like Bizarro World. (remember that? Superman comics and alluded to in the wonderful Seinfeld show)

I think that yo yoing people around makes them lose their bearings. Worse yet, losing your job, home, family, finances, self respect- that screws with one's head even more.

To me, it's no wonder that a lot of Scn'ists end up suicides or having psychological problems. I think that the scenarios I've described are the main reasons.

The $cio auditing is a major why $cio's are so deftly controlled leaving them disoriented and psychologically warped. Look again at the super power quote as a reference. Also, the hubbardite tekkies here who vehemently defend elcon's tek with melt downs and nonsensical straw grasping are good examples of what $cientology inflicts towards a persons rationality.

Listing out what's wrong policy wise while stating you have no problem with auditing is only seeing half the picture of mental/emotional cultist trauma. That other half is "the tek."
 
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sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Random thoughts…

I have experience with both auditing and therapy from psychotherapists and a psychologist. The therapists I have worked with have all been highly trained, strictly supervised and regularly update themselves with training, etc. Modern therapy is very fluid and workable. That has been my experience.

The coal-face differences between auditing and professional therapy as I have experienced them include:

Auditing has very few similarities to modern methods being used at the coal-face of therapy. Auditing has pre-determined outcomes (the end phenomena’s - EPs). These EPs are part of the scientology system, what is called the bridge to total freedom. A person receiving auditing is highly controlled by exact questions to look at certain areas, directly related to the level/type of auditing they are receiving. Auditing is very controlled, very structured. It is rote questions being fired at the person which lowers the persons critical thinking skills, creativeness, etc, etc. Auditing is designed to make a compliant scientologist, heavily attached (& devoted) to the agenda of scientology and its aims (world domination). True healing therapy does not require devotion or perpetual attachment to the therapist or a group.

The different types of professional therapy I have received have been very unstructured compared to auditing. I bring to the table the issues troubling me, and the therapist listens and discusses these with me. I can cry, I can laugh, I can be spontaneous and experience my own emotions, change my habits/behaviours, at my own rate, in my own way. I work my way through the trauma, grief, etc, it is an authentic process, unique, very fluid and in the moment. They may suggest something useful I might try (in my life) but they have left it optional for me to do this. All have been very non-directional with me. This has the effect of being very self-empowering.

Auditing creates a type of dependency. You complete auditing level ABC, to line up for auditing step DEF. You are sold the idea that if you keep at it, get to "XYZ" you'll be a super type of being, with amazing powers, perceptions, etc. With regular therapy you know you are doing great when you don’t feel like going any longer, tell your therapist, she smiles and wishes you well in life. You feel strong, standing on your own two feet in the world, resilient, mastering your own emotions and your own life. Good therapy leaves you seeing the world through your own eyes, not filtering everything through the ideas of another.

True healing therapy leaves you very flexible, curious about ALL of life and attached to no one system of belief. True freedom is about being free to explore all and any aspects of self one wishes to, in one's own time, at one's own pace, without having to sign up for a life-time commitment to any one set of ideas.

Auditing has the individual heavily focused on certain issues, pre-determined by the questions the auditor is asking. The individual has to “find something” if the meter is reading there is something “charged” on the question. It is intensive stuff. Professional therapy is nothing like this. It is gentle and all about the individual, not some pre-determined ideas/outcome the therapist may have. A true therapeutic relationship is based on equality, not the therapist holding all the answers. The power is equally positioned – balanced.

Auditing does not take into account modern research on neuro-plasticity. Modern therapy does. Auditing completely ignores brain function, in fact Hubbard was very “anti-brain”. The research coming in the past few decades kinda makes Hubbard look like an ignorant mid-20th century wannabe guru. The research on brain function of long-term meditating monks is fascinating to explore. Mindfulness practises have way more value than auditing as does cognitive behaviour therapy, both of which are able to be learned at minimal cost and are under the volition of the individual.

Auditing causes dissociation. It disconnects the person from their own core values/beliefs and installs scientology concepts. It numbs the persons full range of emotions and trains the individual to have "uniform" feelings to perceived external situations. What is so vicious and devious about this is the individual is repeatedly told that what is being done to them (via scientology auditing and training) is making them “spiritually free”. I swear to you, I swear, that I have seen way more spiritually aware people outside of scientology than I ever ever saw within the confines of scientology. I have had masters read me like a book and know exactly what I was feeling, experiencing, without a single word being exchanged. They did it in a kind, loving way and wanted NOTHING from me.

Scientology is not even kindergarten level when it comes to spirituality or true healing therapy. It creates broken individuals who fake being “aware” and act superior. Some people break down completely when they can’t fake the façade any longer or cope with the constant repetitive questions that are the foundation of auditing. Poke in someone’s head long enough, keep feeding them how they should see the world, how they should feel, how they should conduct their lives and you are playing with fire. There is zero room for genuine personal growth, personal exploration (except within the very limited scientology confines). All you get is a cult identity – a person who see themselves and the world with scientology definitions. It is a very synthetic identity.

Scientologists are not realists. To be really aware of life, to be in tune with the cut and thrust of life, those that are realists do best. Scientologists live life in a bubble of la-la-Hubbard ideas. It is a dangerous way to live because bubbles burst or tragedy erupts and the idealist has no idea how to function effectively. Good therapy helps an individual get real with themselves and life. Something that scientology has zero need for.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Random thoughts…

.

.

.

For some random thoughts, that was a great explanation of your own journey. You have certainly seen all sides of this question and I want to thank you again for taking us on your personal heartfelt journey through the dark woods and out the other side in your earlier personal thread. The way you can organise your thoughts and convey what is often even difficult to conceptualise is a gift.

Oh, and happy birthday for the other day :heartflower:
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for that Sally. Interesting reading and mindful stuff.

Do I add you to this list?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavSfl1jATU

Yeah add me the list. lol. I'll throw off the identity when I get bored. :)

The only thing I really identify with these days is I am human. I tell ya it is really kinda funny. All those years chasing what-ever-it-was scientology pretended to offer, to find out I am human. Jeez. :melodramatic: :)
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sounds like you are in a much better place now and on the road to a full recovery! :) Keep on going, life is so much better without Sci-FI-ology ! :yes:


Honey Love,

Bee Sting

I love it - "SciFIology" LOLOLOL

I actually am having fun looking at all sorts of self help spiritual practices out there and am trying whatever suits me for the day. I like Eckart Tolle and he has some online courses for free that help get you in the present moment...very relaxing and brings about peace. Another Scientologist told me about Eckart Tolle and she is still hiding on the fringes pretending to be a true group member to keep her family intact - but does this on the side. LOL :coolwink: She LOVES Eckart Tolle and said it helped her tremendously.

I also love this woman: Pema Chodron. She has some really good dvd's dealing with pain and suffering and gives you simple tools on how to overcome them.

Both have been very beneficial for my well being.
 

Dean Blair

Silver Meritorious Patron
If only Lisa McPherson were still alive to answer this question. In my opinion Scientology does indeed cause mental illness. It causes one to live in a delusional world that does not really exist outside of the bubble created by the Scientologists themselves.
 

Isme

Patron with Honors
Who of you and me will work for :

A spying agency ????
Operate a lie detector to torture people ????
Interrogate people for intel in a communist camp????
Order hundreds of young girls and women to abort ???
deprive their fellow workers of sleep as being their I\C ????
Sent people to illegal prison to be tortured for months and years because of a goal not reach ????
Have them run around a pole in the desert till they come close to death
work for an organisation who order people disconnect form their parents and children ???
Who will work for an organisation that specialise in destroying good people with any mean for that they disagree with the leader or want to leave ????
Who will agree to work for an organisation that deprive them from sleep and good food, false emprisoning them , for only a few penny a week - just enough to pay coffee. ???

Who will do that tell me ????

Sane people ?????

No I believe, only brainwashed people induced in a mental inability to behave like a normal human being,
can do that.

It's been done in other places and other times all up and down history. Radical Islamists come to mind.

But this is a "what came first, chicken or the egg" question really.

Who STARTS the brainwashing and indoctrination in the first place? I believe Hubbard may have already been himself indoctrinated. Who indoctrinated the idiot that later indoctrinated radical Islamists, etc., etc.

Or are there just some folk who are born with the idea and knowledge in their heads?

See? Chicken or the egg.
 

Isme

Patron with Honors
Type4_PTS wrote this on the Lisa thread and it may be already flogged to death but...
My brief brush with a psychological practice has made me believe that each and everyone of us could be diagnosed with some type of psychological disorder. IMO I don't think there is a perfectly psychologically balanced person in all 7 billion of us. We are all flawed and just muddle on as best we can.

So what can be directly attributable to Scientology?

As an outsider I would say that there a number of people who have PTSD who absolutely wouldn't have it without their direct involvement with Scientology.

What about arrogance that masks the fear of not being good enough? Arrogance seems very prevalent amongst the still in and can be sometimes in some of the Indie comments. Does the fear of being "caught" not being clear/OT/making it go right aggravate arrogance? Or are people just born arrogant and in-built behaviour pattern?

What do you think?

Hmmm well,

From personal inspection well before I read the Dianetics book there are two things I was born with;

Intense dislike of:

1) Griefers - people who can only get their jollies and kicks, or any pleasure, out of causing or seeing others in pain, discomfort, or distress. My personal belief is that they should all be put down. I love Wikipedia's page on Wikipedia griefing

2) Chronically deliberately stupid people. Yes we are ALL guilty of this some time in our lives. Every romantic infatuation is basically a practice in putting blinders on. I'm talking about folks who refuse to see anything but their dearly held beliefs whether about religious, political, race, country, etc. They simply REFUSE to give them up despite being presented with knowledge to the contrary in the (imho) fear of appearing stupid which, of course, only makes them appear MORE stupid. (Nice page at the RationalWiki on Willful Ignorance)

#2 imho is the most dangerous person should they climb to any position with any power over other people's lives as they then create havoc and really do not care as those whose lives are being disrupted "deserve it".

These types of people do not originate in Scientology, you find them many places. However their traits are magnified and glorified within that structure. If not you couldn't have a David Miscavige.

As far as us all being mentally ill? I think that falls under #2 above as well as some who believe they are better and more intelligent than the rest of us are so fearful of the rest of us that they have been attempting to catalog and label us for a very long time. Understanding behaviors that can endanger others may be important, wasting money and time on why some people prefer cats over dogs is insane.
 
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