Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discussion

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

Neither do I. Still, these things are observable phenomena in auditing as well as in life. :)

That is the Tech Placebo Effect. Just talking about one's problems, no TRs, no meters, no $CN BS, has similar effects. How many little kids get to talk to an adult about the difficulty of their relationship with their parents? THAT is the cheese in the trap, and it's actually one of the good things about $CN. Too bad you can't just take that and leave the rest.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

Perhaps. I've discussed the Placebo aspects of auditing before today. There are a great many aspects to auditing, of course, which never (or extremely rarely) occur in normal conversation. An example of this would be the number of times that particular question was asked and answered (Repetitive Process) in the "conversation" before arriving at that particular answer.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

Perhaps. I've discussed the Placebo aspects of auditing before today. There are a great many aspects to auditing, of course, which never (or extremely rarely) occur in normal conversation. An example of this would be the number of times that particular question was asked and answered (Repetitive Process) in the "conversation" before arriving at that particular answer.

Yeah, but the repetition is a double edged sword. A good therapist keeps digging at the same topic, but from different directions. You can do the same by asking the same thing over and over again, but the latter is also a mild hypnotic and conditioning exercise. And thus even that early in the tech does the trap begin to spring.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

I'm not speaking to the good or bad of it. Just to the fact that it's a process one wouldn't normally encounter in life or normal conversation. Good therapists are a different thing. Scientology has a practice called "varying the auditing question" but that never applies in Repetitive Processes.
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

I'm such an anti-techie that I always try to find the good in it. Testing the hypothesis and all that.

I have to try really hard, though. :yes:
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

In my experience, auditing a child is done pretty much the same as any auditing. As Bea commented, it requires high ARC and a light touch but so does auditing very upset (ARCXn) adults. The rule of thumb is, the worse off the Case, the more ARC and light touch required.

Word Clearing is usually done with a method where you work with the child to ensure understanding of auditing commands/questions and help them understand the words being used.

Best ever experience auditing a kid about 10 years old;

Auditor: "If you could communicate to your Father (a Sea Org Exec), what would you say?"

Kid: "Fuck off!"

(Momentary pause whilst I consider whether that's something he'd say to his Dad or is he telling me, the Auditor, to Fuck Off?)

Auditor: OK!

Kid: (Big smile, big floating needle) "I'd really love to tell him to "Fuck off!" maybe I can do it by telling him it was a session win!" (gales of laughter - known as "line charge" in scientology for about 5 minutes - end of session.)

Good example and wittily put. Similar to my own perspective.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

In my experience, auditing a child is done pretty much the same as any auditing. As Bea commented, it requires high ARC and a light touch but so does auditing very upset (ARCXn) adults. The rule of thumb is, the worse off the Case, the more ARC and light touch required.

Word Clearing is usually done with a method where you work with the child to ensure understanding of auditing commands/questions and help them understand the words being used.

Best ever experience auditing a kid about 10 years old;

Auditor: "If you could communicate to your Father (a Sea Org Exec), what would you say?"

Kid: "Fuck off!"

(Momentary pause whilst I consider whether that's something he'd say to his Dad or is he telling me, the Auditor, to Fuck Off?)

Auditor: OK!

Kid: (Big smile, big floating needle) "I'd really love to tell him to "Fuck off!" maybe I can do it by telling him it was a session win!" (gales of laughter - known as "line charge" in scientology for about 5 minutes - end of session.)

This is so incredibly stupid. Even worse that the practicing Scns can't see it.

First of all, the process above is a repetitive process. Secondly, children of different ages communicate differently and have different levels of memory.

Thirdly - and most importantly - this is a replacement for just talking to a child.

Psychology is so much more direct and to the point, and actually helps find and resolve situations. Example (imaginary, of course, since Scientologists don't use psychologists):

Psychologist: Are you upset with your father?

Child: Yes. I want to yell at him.

Psychologist: Okay. Why are you angry?

Child: He spends all his time in Scientology and I have to be alone when he's gone. When I tell him my problems at school he just tells me I'm a big being and I can handle it.

Psychologist: Hmm. That doesn't sound very good. Have you told him how you feel?

Child: Yes. He told me I should get auditing.

Psychologist: Okay. Well, I have a better idea. Let's get you and your father in for a family counselling session. Is that okay with you?
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

I don't really like repetitive processing much, myself. I think something like ARC straightwire would be better in a situation like that. But in any event, as I've said before, I don't think anyone needs auditing.

But I will take up just one of your points with a mild disagreement or other perspective I have on it. Where you said that it's a substitute for talking to the child. The reason I disagree with that one point is because (some) children also get psychological counseling and that's not a substitute for talking to them. Now, I am definitely not equating or comparing Scn or Dianetic auditing with psychotherapy or other psychology based counseling. I am only saying that if someone signed their kid up for some sort of counseling, the aim would be for the child to get counseling, not: "I just can't talk to my child."

And this is not a swipe at psychotherapy, either. I think psychotherapy is a very good thing.

I haven't seen people obtain counseling for their kids- whether efficacious, cultic or whatever else- in lieu of talking to them. Usually, somebody thought the child needed counseling.

That being said, I do think parents should be open and loving to their kids and listen to them. And if someone were to think of any sort of counseling as an alternative to actually talking to their child, that person would be barking up the wrong tree.

Also, in your hypothetical, the child is seeing a psychologist for...counseling!

As I say, my disagreement was mild and quite a few of the things you said in your post do resonate with me. Maybe it was the way Panda's example was set forth that struck you as substitution for parent/child communication and not auditing per se.

I just know that for me, it depends on the process. They vary greatly. I also think that any effort or attempt to do anything within CofS is doomed to failure for all concerned, regardless of intent.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: Scientology & Children: What is a Child Audit, Process and Security Check? Discus

I don't really like repetitive processing much, myself. I think something like ARC straightwire would be better in a situation like that. But in any event, as I've said before, I don't think anyone needs auditing.

But I will take up just one of your points with a mild disagreement or other perspective I have on it. Where you said that it's a substitute for talking to the child. The reason I disagree with that one point is because (some) children also get psychological counseling and that's not a substitute for talking to them. Now, I am definitely not equating or comparing Scn or Dianetic auditing with psychotherapy or other psychology based counseling. I am only saying that if someone signed their kid up for some sort of counseling, the aim would be for the child to get counseling, not: "I just can't talk to my child."

And this is not a swipe at psychotherapy, either. I think psychotherapy is a very good thing.

I haven't seen people obtain counseling for their kids- whether efficacious, cultic or whatever else- in lieu of talking to them. Usually, somebody thought the child needed counseling.

That being said, I do think parents should be open and loving to their kids and listen to them. And if someone were to think of any sort of counseling as an alternative to actually talking to their child, that person would be barking up the wrong tree.

Also, in your hypothetical, the child is seeing a psychologist for...counseling!

As I say, my disagreement was mild and quite a few of the things you said in your post do resonate with me. Maybe it was the way Panda's example was set forth that struck you as substitution for parent/child communication and not auditing per se.

I just know that for me, it depends on the process. They vary greatly. I also think that any effort or attempt to do anything within CofS is doomed to failure for all concerned, regardless of intent.

Nice post, Claire. You've brought up a lot of things that resonate with me, too.

I've seen children sent for counselling when the parents couldn't be bothered just talking to them, both in and out of Scientology. I am personally an example of such a child. My mother did everything to avoid talking to most of her kids. When I got into Scientology, I was sent to a psychologist, who pretty much did what I described above. My mother refused to attend a family session, though.

I knew quite a few SO members and public Scns who would rather send their kids for Scn counselling than spend the time and effort to just work things out with them. I think they believed more in Scientology than they did in their own parenting skills. Scientology never taught parenting skills.

I don't know if you do or don't have kids, Claire, but I really like what you wrote and think that with your dedication to communicate well with a child, you'd be a very good mother.
 
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