SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces Lead

TEoS

Patron with Honors
From Village Voice:

SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces Leadership Crisis

For several years, we've been reporting about a crisis in Scientology as key members of the church -- including some of its highest-ranking former executives -- have left the organization and spoken out about its abuses. One by one, longtime, loyal Scientologists have announced that they are fed up and are leaving the church.

But now, for the first time in memory, an entire mission has announced that it is defecting from the church en masse.



Full story: http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/07/scientology_dani_lemberger.php
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

Debbie Cook got some good results.:omg: 50 people leaving the official "church" is not bad. I just hope, that at least some of them will do some more research on the internet and find out that all the bad things with Scientology didn't start with DM.:ohmy:


Opter
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

It's good news, but it's a pity they are drinking from Marty's Koolaid fountain now.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I think these people are supplying their own Kool-Aid.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I've been back and forth about Debbie Cook. But for now I'm going to focus on her email -- and its positive impact.

I'm really glad she sent that email. I don't care about the reason(s) why she sent it. Or who was or wasn't pulling her strings, if anyone.

I'm just glad she sent that email.

Thank you, Debbie Cook, for that.

TG1
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I've been back and forth about Debbie Cook. But for now I'm going to focus on her email -- and its positive impact.

I'm really glad she sent that email. I don't care about the reason(s) why she sent it. Or who was or wasn't pulling her strings, if anyone.

I'm just glad she sent that email.

Thank you, Debbie Cook, for that.

TG1

Yes, she deserves a little credit there, so I add mine.
 

themadhair

Patron Meritorious
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

This reminds me of a case involving the Mormons a while back. Iirc, a church defected and the whole issue of who actually owned the church building went to court. Iirc, the defectors won the case and were allowed to keep the building. If my memory is accurate then this case would be a very potent precedent for use in the US.

Been trying to search the details of the case but not having much joy. Any legalfags able to dig out the case?
 
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

If she gets fed up with that Guacomole place she'll have a place to go and run a few engrams to pay the gas bill too.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

While I applaud anyone getting out of Scientology this piece of news really sounds much bigger than it really is. First of all - it's not like they can put a sign up saying "under new management - but don't worry it's the same old Hubbard rubbish". The contracts they signed (and probably never read properly) will give DM and his minions all the legal power they need to ensure that they cannot use the copyrighted names etc.

In 1982 there were much bigger defections than this.

What will be really big news will be when an entire AO secedes.
 
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

While I applaud anyone getting out of Scientology thius piece of news really sounds much bigger than it really is. First of all - it's not like they can put a sign up saying "under new management - but don't worry it's the same old Hubbard rubbish". The contracts they signed (and probably never read properly) will give DM and his minions all the legal power they need to ensure that they cannot use the copyrighted names etc.

Whta will be really big news will be when an entire AO secedes.

That will be horrible! Body thetans leaping out the windows.:omg:
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

How much difference will it make to most public Scientologists, if their local org secedes but continues trying to offer 'the tech' without violating copyright? How much non-copyrighted Hubbard material is there? How much stock would most Scientologists put in the mere names of the various services, as opposed to the content?

My naive guess would be that it would make much less difference than you'd think, because I'm not convinced that the various CofS trademarks are in themselves really all that appealing to people. Hubbard wasn't actually a marketing genius. If somebody was willing to believe that one piece of Hubbard-esque gobbledegook was the secret to everything, I bet they'd be just as happy to fall for a knock-off version of the same.

Meet the new tech, same as the old tech.

No?
 

themadhair

Patron Meritorious
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

^ Difficult to say. With the orgs I don’t think there would be much difference, but I do think there would be a difference in the missions. Most of the abuses that occur in the missions seem to stem from uplines pressure to make money and the like. Remove that pressure, and in particular the outgoings of cash being sent uplines, and I think the missions become significantly less abusive – and all the more so when there is no longer a network to send people uplines to the orgs for more advanced courses.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

As Veda has correctly pointed out in the past, there have been many times throught the history of the Church of Scientology where some or many felt that "the collapse was right around the corner". At times the noise and negative publicity seemed so huge that it seemed impossible that they could conitnue. But, they did. Over and over and over.

But, it does seem that things are escalating. The amount of defections and wide-open FREE criticism of the Church of Scientology has never before enjoyed such intensity and amount.

Now, I don't know if this means that "the end is near". But, regardless, the genie has been let out of the bottle as far as the Church of Scientology is concerned. More and more Scientology members are removing their own self-applied muzzling. More and more are feeling able to finally talk about so many things they have suppressed for so long.

The amount of criticism by media and ex-members can and will ONLY GROW. It cannot be stopped. It can never be erased.

The Church of Scientology always rewrites history to suit its needs. But, as time goes on there will be fewer and fewer participants who will accept such fictional rewrites. It might not be the "last gasp", but they are in the water, they are starting to swallow gulps of water, and however long it might take, it seems that eventually, drowning IS inevitable.

But, then, we have heard that before . . . . :confused2:
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I wonder when we'll hear the first heckling and booing of of Miscavige by the previously faithful at a big event. I don't think it's that far away. It will start small and grow, as more and more see him as the problem. Of course he's only part of the problem, but they don't know that yet.


 

Esco

Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

This is karma finally catching up to them.

I'm a STRONG believer in karma btw, everything happens for a reason
 

Dave B.

Maximus Ultimus Mostimus
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

Wow. I like it. An avalanche starts with a few rocks falling.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I wonder when we'll hear the first heckling and booing of of Miscavige by the previously faithful at a big event. I don't think it's that far away. It will start small and grow, as more and more see him as the problem. Of course he's only part of the problem, but they don't know that yet.


:hysterical:

I would LOVE a video of that.

Can you imagine the security guards and HCO staff running around yelling, "HCO Bring Order"!!??

They would be yelling at each person, "stop, you are committing a suppressive act, you are committing a mutiny, and you are publicly heckling a top Scientology figure".

For Miscavige to have to be wisked away, surrounded by "security", with the crowd "throwing tomatoes", as he drives away into the night . . . . (ah, what a pleasant "mental image picture").

Oh, it would be so funny to be there and to be able to watch when such a MAJOR brick in the foundation of deluson first falls and crumbles to the ground.

Someday, someday . . . . . that tipping point will be reached.

That "critical mass" will be finally acheived and it will ALL blow up!

Though, in another regard, they might just eventually lose a slow war of attrition, as some more people leave day after day and week after week, and there won't be any big bang, just a few quiet wimpers and last gasps.

Either way works for me. :thumbsup:

The problem with a mass upheaval is that too many active Scientology members have so closely and tightly identified themselves with Scientology AND even with Miscavige as the "long term leader". In the minds of such people, who have grossly misidentified with Scientology, who have so tightly attached themselves to the ideas of Scientology, attacking Miscavige or Scientology is tantamount to attacking themselves. As long as they remain firmly attached to the ideas of Hubbard and Scientology, it can be difficult to attack what they falsely identify with.

This again, despite all of Hubbard's (and Marty's) posturing to the contrary, shows how truly different Scientology is from Buddhism. Buddhism aims to understand and break down the bonds of attachment and identification. Participation with Scientology almost always INCREASES attachments and identifications (if nothing else, with the subject and practices of Scientology and Hubbard).

The truly "devoted" say, "I am a Scientologist". Buddhism actually aims, at some point, to eradicate even "devotion", along with any identification with ANY religion - even with Buddhism itself! :yes:

In Buddhism and other eastern practices, there is the idea that at some point you have to get rid of the system or package of ideas that you used to get where you are. At some point, they actually become a hindrance to any further development. You have to actually BURN the Bridge to get any further. Not so with Scientology. They will NEVER abandon "the bridge".
 

KissMyStats

Patron with Honors
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I wonder when we'll hear the first heckling and booing of of Miscavige by the previously faithful at a big event. I don't think it's that far away. It will start small and grow, as more and more see him as the problem. Of course he's only part of the problem, but they don't know that yet.



Smilla, I have wondered about this myself. It is going to happen someday, I envision a dozen people standing up holding a big DM SUCKS banner and shouting stuff, and having it all on video because others are there with their cameras! And security freaking out and DM tongue tied with no Teleprompter to put words in his mouth, and they get booed but also some cheering. Anyway, just one of my bucket list items !
 
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