SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces Lead

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I wonder when we'll hear the first heckling and booing of of Miscavige by the previously faithful at a big event. I don't think it's that far away. It will start small and grow, as more and more see him as the problem. Of course he's only part of the problem, but they don't know that yet.



The problem is that it would require scientologists to publicly stand out for something that is right but which will endanger their "status". Being in Scientology requires no courage and very large doses of fear.

Have you EVER seen a scientologist speak out loudly and volubly in public about ANYTHING other than how wonderful Tubbard is/was? Have you ever seen any Scientologist go publicly on the record speaking out about some huge mistake the "Church" made?

So I don;t think your scenario , wonderful though it is to envision, is going to happen.

Now, the more courageous ones will turn off their phones so they can't get called in for the event... that's about as brave as they get. (with some exceptions)
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I dimly recall entire missions defecting before, but this is Scientology, which specializes in erasing its own past, so maybe that's been erased.... er, forgotten. :)

There were plenty of missions that broke away after the October 1982 meeting that Miscavige called for the mission holders, where a number of them were arbitrarily declared. There were also the Connecticut missions/mission holder F. Brown McKee that splintered/declared independence after Brown was declared in late Dec. 81 or early Jan. 82. Brown was the one that assigned the WDC the condition of confusion.

Pete
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

As Veda has correctly pointed out in the past, there have been many times throught the history of the Church of Scientology where some or many felt that "the collapse was right around the corner". At times the noise and negative publicity seemed so huge that it seemed impossible that they could conitnue. But, they did. Over and over and over.

But, it does seem that things are escalating. The amount of defections and wide-open FREE criticism of the Church of Scientology has never before enjoyed such intensity and amount.

Now, I don't know if this means that "the end is near". But, regardless, the genie has been let out of the bottle as far as the Church of Scientology is concerned. More and more Scientology members are removing their own self-applied muzzling. More and more are feeling able to finally talk about so many things they have suppressed for so long.

The amount of criticism by media and ex-members can and will ONLY GROW. It cannot be stopped. It can never be erased.

The Church of Scientology always rewrites history to suit its needs. But, as time goes on there will be fewer and fewer participants who will accept such fictional rewrites. It might not be the "last gasp", but they are in the water, they are starting to swallow gulps of water, and however long it might take, it seems that eventually, drowning IS inevitable.

But, then, we have heard that before . . . . :confused2:

If we liken this to a fireworks display ... it might not be the grand finale when they shoot up the scads of sulfur bombs for the loud reports, but, if not, it is the fakeout grand finale they always put in about 3/4ths the way thru. Unlike a fireworks display that has a set time to run, usually 1/2 hour ... the time is not linear. It may have taken from about 1990, when the Cof$ was at its peak to now to get 3/4ths done, but that last 1/4th might only be a matter of months.

Pete
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I wonder when we'll hear the first heckling and booing of of Miscavige by the previously faithful at a big event. I don't think it's that far away. It will start small and grow, as more and more see him as the problem. Of course he's only part of the problem, but they don't know that yet.



It would require at least one person who received the invite to the event, was confirmed, willing to show up, maybe take an asskicking from security goons, and definitely be declared. More at the same meeting would be better. Of course, the heckling would be edited out of the event video along with the goon squad action. I wonder if the attendees are patted down ahead of time for ripe tomatoes. If not, they would be for the next event.

Pete
 
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

This was, generally, the case before, but upper mis-mangement began imposing tighter controls on missions since the mid '90s or so.

Mission charters got tighter, something called "Stages of Expansion" with RTC inspections on site for Minimum Standards, I think there were 4 or 5 "Stages."

Staff contracts were replaced with new ones from SMI and SMI Mission Reps were appointed to each mission to "guide" missions in their planning, programs, stats etc. New enrollment forms for public, too.

Not the same degree of meddling as in official orgs, but definitely tighter controls from the '70s & '80s.

Jack

Yes, after I posted that I started to think about the tighter controls now. I suppose that OTs in particular are generally micromanaged more throughly too, through IAS and more demands to give every penny and minute of time to the cult, so OT mission holders will be completely under the microscope. However, I also wonder how many OTs would want to be mission holders now, or even encouraged by the mother cult ---too much work to do raising all that cash for trips to AOs, Flag, Freewinds etc... (what I mean is, they would have to get a "real job"...become a chiropractor/dentist/real estate agent etc.................
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

Not as repressive, but much crazier...
Their shit sandwitch comes with a side of pickles, fries or cole slaw!
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

Their shit sandwitch comes with a side of pickles, fries or cole slaw!

Ah, yes, the Scientology Deli. What a menu to choose from!

Pete
 

DoneDeal

Patron Meritorious
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

Have you EVER seen a scientologist speak out loudly and volubly in public about ANYTHING other than how wonderful Tubbard is/was?

No...only between "ourselves" back in the day.

Good point.
 

Wants2Talk

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

There were plenty of missions that broke away after the October 1982 meeting that Miscavige called for the mission holders, where a number of them were arbitrarily declared. There were also the Connecticut missions/mission holder F. Brown McKee that splintered/declared independence after Brown was declared in late Dec. 81 or early Jan. 82. Brown was the one that assigned the WDC the condition of confusion.

Pete

I first met Brown as a book buying public. He had a mission in a nice old part of Farmington Connecticut. I remember he had Burrough's Naked Scientology for sale as well. A few years later I was his sup at FCDC. This guy was as correct a fellow as I ever met. And he got fucked in the head, the ass and the heart.
 

JackStraw

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

Yes, after I posted that I started to think about the tighter controls now. I suppose that OTs in particular are generally micromanaged more throughly too, through IAS and more demands to give every penny and minute of time to the cult, so OT mission holders will be completely under the microscope. However, I also wonder how many OTs would want to be mission holders now, or even encouraged by the mother cult ---too much work to do raising all that cash for trips to AOs, Flag, Freewinds etc... (what I mean is, they would have to get a "real job"...become a chiropractor/dentist/real estate agent etc.................

Yep. Especially those "OT Ambassadors" got leaned on real hard to dissem, donate, get others to donate as nauseum.

Jack
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I first met Brown as a book buying public. He had a mission in a nice old part of Farmington Connecticut. I remember he had Burrough's Naked Scientology for sale as well. A few years later I was his sup at FCDC. This guy was as correct a fellow as I ever met. And he got fucked in the head, the ass and the heart.

You must go way, way, way back then. F. Brown McKee was doing book 1 auditing in the late 50's, I first met him in early 1976 at the mission in New London, CT, which later moved to good old rotten Groton CT, home of Electric Boat and, of course, the US Navy submarine base, where I was stationed, onboard a Sturgeon class boat. (The last of the last of that class was decommissioned around 2003 or 2004, all boats in the fleet are now Los Angeles class or later.) I had started in Scientology in SanFran, on a surface ship in the yards there and then on weekends when I was a student at the nuke school in Valejo CA, Mare Island Naval Shipyard.
Brown was a straight shooter. Back during the days of the 5% price increases, at least towards the end of that, he had some little administrative paper fix he was atempting to use to reduce the price of an expensive from the official 4k down to somewhere under $1500. He attended and was more a less a ring leader of the mission holder's rebellion meetings at flag in October 81 and then in December 81. It was at the latter meeting when he assigned the WDC the condition of confusion.

Following his declare and his converting his missions into "splinter groups" as they were called ... and at that time I was already out in California due to job change, was out of the Navy by then, being briefed on what was happening by friends still there ... I gave them 6 months before they were disbanded. I was wrong, they fell apart in 3 months. As one fellow said "Brown decided to unmock his missions." He testified at the Clearwater hearings in May of 82, and his testimony is still viewable on youtube last I checked. By that time, my life had pretty much changed. Being onlines out in California again would have been logistically impossible, and there was my doubt caused by Brown's declare. I figured something must be really really wrong for that to have happened.

Pete
 

Whitedove

Patron Meritorious
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

If Scientology can crumble into oblivion I will be more than happy! :clapping:
 

Lure Rob & Hyde

Patron with Honors
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

Wow. I like it. An avalanche starts with a few rocks falling.

On the subject of "rocks" per Lemberger's statement ""The magazine is disgusting. It's evil," Lemberger says. "It has a photo of Tom DeVocht scratching his balls, like every man doesn't do that .
Looks like we have an new SP characterisitc now that if you scratch your rocks it is a suppressive act!!! LOL:roflmao:
 

NoName

A Girl Has No Name
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I can see how missions can defect en masse (and the more the better, I say). But can someone explain how it would work with an Org? The Co$ owns the buildings, so unless the staff hangs out a pirate flag, locks themselves in, and arms themselves to the teeth, how could they possibly break away. :confused2:
 

Whitedove

Patron Meritorious
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I can see how missions can defect en masse (and the more the better, I say). But can someone explain how it would work with an Org? The Co$ owns the buildings, so unless the staff hangs out a pirate flag, locks themselves in, and arms themselves to the teeth, how could they possibly break away. :confused2:

Well, an empty building would do the trick no? :biggrin:
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I can see how missions can defect en masse (and the more the better, I say). But can someone explain how it would work with an Org? The Co$ owns the buildings, so unless the staff hangs out a pirate flag, locks themselves in, and arms themselves to the teeth, how could they possibly break away. :confused2:

The last time, back in 82, when there was major splintering ... many of the missions were still franchise via the old MOWW office as opposed to SMI which put them under some sort of quazi corporate control while still selling mission startup packs to bilk their high end publics. An org have never broken away, that would be quite a trick. My guess as to how it would go down ... a significant portion of org staff would leave, and attempt to setup a splinter mission, taking as many public as possible. What would be left behind would be the best KR writing, power mongering, ethics horseshit slinging KSW Ronbots. The Sea Ogres would be dispached from on high and come down on them like stink on shit, because the mass defection would obviously be there fault. They would NOT be validated for their loyalty. A few of them would blow, the rest would start jumping thru the hoops that the sea ogres were holding. The Sea Ogres would then attempt to run things with not nearly enough staff and very few public left.

Hopefully that will happen soon, to put out the Tom Cruise fire with gasoline.

Pete
 
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

While that is likely to be true for you, I find it doubtful that it would apply to most others. Most individuals in the church have had little direct exposure to hubbard but they have experienced many personal traumas with scientology involving other sources.

Dealing with the actual source of personal troubles tends to be far more effective at relieving a condition than picking a likely @sshole and putting his head on a pike. Of course, this latter is a technique sanctioned by l. ron hubbard. So, I guess you still choose to apply some of his tech, then.


Mark A. Baker

Don't take things so literally.
 

xguardian

Patron with Honors
Re: SCIENTOLOGY CRUMBLING: An Entire Church Mission Defects as David Miscavige Faces

I can see how missions can defect en masse (and the more the better, I say). But can someone explain how it would work with an Org? The Co$ owns the buildings, so unless the staff hangs out a pirate flag, locks themselves in, and arms themselves to the teeth, how could they possibly break away. :confused2:

Legally it can be done. By a majority vote, the staff and all members online at an Org can overthrow the current leadership under 501 c 3 rules. While local Orgs do not have their own bylaws and boards that are duly elected, that would be the first order of business. While CST will immediately sue over copyright to tech, the court should rule the local membership has a right to all usage and privilege until litigation is finalized. It would need a very astute legal team with experience in this area but it is a very common happening in other churches. I have been involved in several. It can devolve into "SQUATTING" on premises until a court order is issued. A meeting has to be called and all members notified and as much documentation as possible (video taped) If current staff is not on board and they won't relinquish keys, right after a vote to ratify new bylaws and membership requirements, the newly voted in "minister of security" changes locks and takes possession of facilities. However, I have seen it see-saw back and forth, old back in by another court, new back by another etc..but in the end, the side with the votes always wins. An order to freeze new voting membership is important. I have seen both sides occupy same facilities simultaneously as court granted both sides shared usage until final ruling.:coolwink:
 
Top