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Scientology Exec Jennifer Watari sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

Adam7986

Declared SP
Re: Scientology Exec sends letter to intimidate ESMB poster, FAILS.

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to, but it is just good practice for both organizations and individuals to frequently change passwords. It is bad practice to use the same password for multiple sites.

The implication in your comment, without being directly accusative, is that somehow someone might have gotten the poster's information from ESMB. Otherwise, why even mention it?
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Anyway Phoenix, I get it. You're not willing to entertain what I'm saying at all. So I'll shut up and let you carry on.

But just want to say before I go, sounds like you've got yourself a happy life going outside of Scientology. Congrats and happy for you.

:cheers2:
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Copies of all the correspondence to and from the individual, copies of course completions, copies of invoices for books, courses, and auditing, as well if there was a dead file notice ( do not mail - sp) strip request, ( do not mail - requested removal from mailing) address no good, and some other random particles.


God. Wherever you worked was a whole lot more organized than where I was.

I don't think I ever saw a CF file with all that stuff in it. In AO and ASHO, a lot of them had one scrap of paper. Or were completely empty. :no:
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
This information doesn't even require digging. It's so easy to find. I have an app on my phone called "Been Verified" that I don't even pay for that can get me all of this information for most people.

Do you really just want to keep digging the hole deeper and defending these tactics by the CoS? You seem to think you can decide for some one else how to interpret experiences that you are not experiencing yourself merely from bits of information she has chosen to share. You do not have the whole picture or have any idea of everything happening to her and her family. You have your experiences, she has hers. She's not telling you how to feel or interpret your CoS mail or past experiences in the SO, do her the same courtesy. (You'll note she too spent many a long hours in the SO writing reg letters and knows exactly how it works firsthand, just like you.)

I personally never give the cult the benefit of the doubt in these situations because they don't deserve it and have proven themselves endlessly capable of using every possible nasty, creepy tool at their disposal to try and nullify and intimidate ex-members who they fear.

She came here, she clarified what's been going on, the cult is trying to intimidate and get her to be quiet in a variety of ways, not just a letter. End of story.

The implication in your comment, without being directly accusative, is that somehow someone might have gotten the poster's information from ESMB. Otherwise, why even mention it?

No one here posted anything about server security or anything else at ESMB but you. You imported a random comment about it, I'm assuming from Tony O's UB comment section, for some reason and have kept bringing it up - no one else here has said boo about it except to reply to your posts about it.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Do you really just want to keep digging the hole deeper and defending these tactics by the CoS? You seem to think you can decide for some one else how to interpret experiences that you are not experiencing yourself merely from bits of information she has chosen to share. You do not have the whole picture or have any idea of everything happening to her and her family. You have your experiences, she has hers. She's not telling you how to feel or interpret your CoS mail or past experiences in the SO, do her the same courtesy. (You'll note she too spent many a long hours in the SO writing reg letters and knows exactly how it works firsthand, just like you.)

You are mischaracterizing my statements. I am interpreting the cult's actions not the poster's experiences. I am interpreting the cult's actions not defending them. The whole point of a *forum* is to have a discussion. Which I am trying to contribute to. You asked me to stop talking to you about your friend that you brought up earlier and I graciously agreed. Now you're asking me to stop talking altogether unless I agree with you. That's not much of a discussion at all.

No one here posted anything about server security or anything else at ESMB but you. You imported a random comment about it from Tony O's blog for some reason and have kept bringing it up - no one else here has said boo about it except to reply to your posts about it

Yeah okay. I'll stop posting because BunnySkull told me I'm not allowed to talk about things. Bye ESMB. I've been banned by BunnySkull.
 

Operating Wog

Patron with Honors
It is ever so helpful that you understand and can properly interpret her experience better than she can. This is especially impressive given the fact that you, unlike her, did not receive the phone calls in question.

FWIW, even before the high profile, well-YouTubed debacle with Marty and the Squirrel Busters, I new of OSA trying to cave-in, introvert and intimidate critics and exes in precisely the same seemingly low-keyed, plausibly explainable (if not deniable) way evidenced in Tony Ortega's post. The button pushing of perceived insecurities or losses, the quick comments, etc. It happened at protests, over the phone, in letters. There is a history of precisely this. It has been done.

I've seen others reasonably predict that the high profile, well-YouTubed debacle with Marty and the Squirrel Busters OSA would cause OSA to further transition to a more low-keyed, less-YouTubeable, more plausibly explainable (if not deniable) form of harassment and intimidation. Or to a certain extent in the case of Fred G. Haseney, perhaps already has.

OK, no need to go on the attack. I wasn't evaluating for anyone. Just putting out a viewpoint. I, personally, wrote 1000s of letters almost identical to that one, and personally folded, stuffed and stamped and mailed hundreds of thousands of letters almost identical to that one, written by other staff. All sent to total strangers. The worst I'm saying is "ok, don't freak out too much, it might be nothing." I don't know, seems better than, "oh my god, they are out to get you!"
 

Operating Wog

Patron with Honors
I was never public anywhere in California. I was in the SO and I moved to Los Angeles from another place on the globe. I wouldn't have been in CF. I was only ex-So. OSA has called me multiple times this past year and other staff have tried too. I block the calls now.

I have really bad dirt, in fact horrific crimes, on a couple of members. I don't think OSA would spear my name in my neighborhood unless they wanted a full on media circus of fuckery for $cn. If OSA doesn't know at least that by now, they aren't doing their scoundrel work well at all.

If you ever bought anything, even a way to happiness booklet, even as an SO member, from any org anywhere, or if your family bought something in your name, you're in some CF. And those lists get shared all over. 15 years later I still get mail from orgs I never had anything to do with or ever went anywhere near.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
OK, no need to go on the attack. I wasn't evaluating for anyone. Just putting out a viewpoint. I, personally, wrote 1000s of letters almost identical to that one, and personally folded, stuffed and stamped and mailed hundreds of thousands of letters almost identical to that one, written by other staff. All sent to total strangers. The worst I'm saying is "ok, don't freak out too much, it might be nothing." I don't know, seems better than, "oh my god, they are out to get you!"


Yeah.

I really can see both sides to this.

The letter was..very freakin' weird. No promo, no purpose that made any sense. I was positive it was written for intimidation when I first read it.

But, I've been on staff in a service org. I've been on thousands of "all hands letter writing" projects. Which when an org is in a State of Emergency, or there's a Mission, can go into the wee hours. You can come up with some pretty strange shit at 3:00 in the morning.

So, in my mind, the jury is out. Both sides definitely have valid points.

The same with the...ramifications.

It's very valid for people to protect themselves and their identities.

Then again, if they scare you into silence, they've won.

It might be better, especially for lurkers who are afraid to post, to believe it was just a weird ass letter from an overworked staff member than a sinister OSA plot.

That's my take on the whole thing.

Now, time for a group hug. :)

:grouphug:
 

Operating Wog

Patron with Honors
Yeah.

I really can see both sides to this.

The letter was..very freakin' weird. No promo, no purpose that made any sense. I was positive it was written for intimidation when I first read it.

But, I've been on staff in a service org. I've been on thousands of "all hands letter writing" projects. Which when an org is in a State of Emergency, or there's a Mission, can go into the wee hours. You can come up with some pretty strange shit at 3:00 in the morning.

So, in my mind, the jury is out. Both sides definitely have valid points.

The same with the...ramifications.

It's very valid for people to protect themselves and their identities.

Then again, if they scare you into silence, they've won.

It might be better, especially for lurkers who are afraid to post, to believe it was just a weird ass letter from an overworked staff member than a sinister OSA plot.

That's my take on the whole thing.

Now, time for a group hug. :)

:grouphug:

Exactly. I'm not making any claims of "this is how it was". Just that I don't know for sure what it was. I can see it both ways too. I could have stated that to be more clear.

And let's face it, 99% of all communication coming out of the doors of the church is pretty freaking weird. :)
 

Phoenix8

Patron with Honors
My question is: why would they bother harassing you just because you posted here? Logically, the whole Larry Dennison thing is a legal liability, so that explained it to me, not knowing your exact circumstances. It was just a thought. Anyway! I am glad to see another person posting here, I hope they dead file you, so you will be left alone.

When they dead filed me after I was declared, all the mail ( well 99.9%) emails, and calls stopped. So nice - it was so very frustrating to get so much duplicate mail when they mis-spelled my name etc. that I could never get sorted out. I was getting crap from other countries that I would never think of going on lines at. No more drop-by visits from the IAS or reges. Now if I could stop the junk mail and robo calls...

Mimsey

I hope they dead-file me too. I can't really get into other specifics on why I might be "interesting" to them. But I will say it's probably an associate. Also, I'm probably an extremely bad PR risk - for a couple reasons.

I don't receive any junk mail from scn but I do recall how fervorously relentless in sending that nonsense.
 

Phoenix8

Patron with Honors
Anyway Phoenix, I get it. You're not willing to entertain what I'm saying at all. So I'll shut up and let you carry on.

But just want to say before I go, sounds like you've got yourself a happy life going outside of Scientology. Congrats and happy for you.

:cheers2:

I'm not willing to entertain what YOU are saying? Seriously? Man, if you spent this year in MY shoes. I can't believe that you, an ex-so scn kid, are so laissez faire about what has happened. I can't believe you're not hearing what I'm saying. It's really not that far fetched if you read between the lines. Can't give out too many details but it is certainly obvious to me.

I'm sure my public records are easy enough for any stalker to find on been verified, IF THEY WERE LOOKING. Which isn't cool. Not in the least.

Thanks for the well wishes on my happy life. It is very happy. I had intended on keeping it that way. I wish you the best with yours :)
 

Phoenix8

Patron with Honors
If you ever bought anything, even a way to happiness booklet, even as an SO member, from any org anywhere, or if your family bought something in your name, you're in some CF. And those lists get shared all over. 15 years later I still get mail from orgs I never had anything to do with or ever went anywhere near.

I'm 100% sure it was not a random reg letter, friend. I have recorded calls and texts. Those numbers are now blocked.
 

Phoenix8

Patron with Honors
Just to clear things up for a few people. I didn't freak out only because I received a dumb letter. This was a year of calls, texts and then they found my private personal information after repeated verbal intimidation over the course of the year. Exactly 2 times they had specifically stated they worked with OSA but that was when this all first started last year.

I really don't like having to argue about this fact on the forum I've been avoiding for the greater part of this year. Irony? I think, yeah.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
I'm not willing to entertain what YOU are saying? Seriously? Man, if you spent this year in MY shoes. I can't believe that you, an ex-so scn kid, are so laissez faire about what has happened. I can't believe you're not hearing what I'm saying. It's really not that far fetched if you read between the lines. Can't give out too many details but it is certainly obvious to me.

I'm sure my public records are easy enough for any stalker to find on been verified, IF THEY WERE LOOKING. Which isn't cool. Not in the least.

Thanks for the well wishes on my happy life. It is very happy. I had intended on keeping it that way. I wish you the best with yours :)

Well if you think that OSA has an interest in you then be prepared. You seem to think I don't have any idea what it's like to be harassed or intimidated by Scientology. My most recent encounter with OSA was when a PI walked up next to me on the street and started telling me all about how he's been monitoring me for the last year on behalf of Scientology and started going through all my activity with me (including where I used to live), then told me that my dad should have killed me and called my friend a fruit. That's only my most recent encounter since I started speaking out.

I am not a naive child speaking to you from ignorance. I have personal experience with these things. I am very public. My name is Derek Bloch. I am afraid of Scientology because I've seen the things they are capable of and heard stories that aren't even public that terrify me. I speak out anyway. I am part of a project right now that will put me right in Scientology's cross-hairs if it hasn't already. I was terrified the entire time and I am still terrified because it hasn't even gone public. I have never been so afraid of anything in my life as I was when I spoke out against Scientology. So I am not naive nor do I have a laissez-faire attitude.

Scientology can eat my @$$. My life is alright. 1000x better than it was in Scientology I can tell you that much.
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
PS: I didn't give up a lot of information or details on purpose. But I'm sure the publicity of the letter that I've shared will be enough for me to be 'officially disaffected' or 'goldenrod' or whatever tf.

BIG NEWS: I've been FREE from that shit for a long time. I'm not going to stop being free because OSA is on to me. Fuck'em.

Hello Phoenix

Glad you are back here in comm with people!
Yes the declare may help in a way (it did for me) ... no more harrassing phone calls to handle us. Hopefuly you will be left alone and life will arrange an opportunity to reunite with family soon. The truth of this toxic evil cult is so widely spread...it cannot be prevent to reach staff and SO soon or later.

It's a good news though you are free from that shit and you don't give a fuck to them.

I had concern reading that thread about you (as I and some others do have concerns for ex SO children) that pushing OUR ''Osa program'' speculations would have negative impact on you. (We didn't had this specific info from you it had been mentionned (OSA) in phone calls but now we know you are fine)

Thank you for having told us , here, what happened...Never I was intented to tell that you were depressed or drunk, those were example of how they use any 'general'' button on people to introvert and intimidate them. (since we are not anymore in this cult we don't have (other than if we wish to) to justify, give explantations or refute anything about our personal life...no...those times of sec checks in the cult are gone..thanks god!) I do respect what happened to you for what you feel it is since YOU are the one concerned.

Now reading your post it's good to see you are doing fine and wish you the very best in your life out of this toxic cult. May life give you plenty or joyful moments and lot of people to share genuine friendship with. :yes:

Oh! And enjoy people here, on ESMB - very good heartful gentle funny people :)

:handinhand:
:flowers:
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
@ Derek

I know you had the very same concern (for her) I had..and I still agree with you posts and know you never intented to be judgemental to her...but to the opposite not let grow the fear of an OSA op..

I wish Pheonix could retain this( a heartful intent) from your posts (as we had mentionned) since It could have been someone who would have been deeply troubled by all those OSA program speculation of US.

I do acknowledge this genuine concern way beyond one to be right. :yes: :coolwink:
When It happened to me, I would have like to read your posts and relax a bit...I was so introverted with this harassement and was fearful of posting here... (for no reason, in fact, in my situation) It may be of help, for other people to read all those infos on what the CO$ does to harrass people for handling purposes.

Ciao!
I am gone now! :wave::wave:
 
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CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Just to clear things up for a few people. I didn't freak out only because I received a dumb letter. This was a year of calls, texts and then they found my private personal information after repeated verbal intimidation over the course of the year. Exactly 2 times they had specifically stated they worked with OSA but that was when this all first started last year.

I really don't like having to argue about this fact on the forum I've been avoiding for the greater part of this year. Irony? I think, yeah.
Cross-posted to WWP:

https://whyweprotest.net/threads/to...stalks-another-ex-member.131979/#post-2587701

.
 
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