Scientology explained

[Balthasar]

Amongst others, you quoted me.

Could you please tell me where I said I am in any way an electroshock dispense specialist?

I sincerely want to know, because I can't seem to find it. Please don't avoid the question.

Okey, I don't avoid.

I didn't say that you said you would be an "electroshock dispense specialist". You didn't give yourself that label, or did you?

That aside, here is the thing. You said that if a licenced psychiatrist thinks you need ECT because of some disease for which ECT may help, and there are no other options that are good enough, I hope s/he gives it to you.

The problem I see is that a psychiatrist whose speciality is to treat patients with electroshocks will not see "other options that are good enough". An auditor audits Scientology processes and an trained ECT specialist does electroshocks. Either one of them will see few, if any alternatives. Now we can argue about this and find examples where this doesn't apply but lets be realistic. That's how it works for the most part.

As you said you would hope that the psychiatrist treats you with electroshock therapy under certain circumstances, you are giving consent to be therapeutically electroshocked and thus validating it as a suitable treatment (if doctor says so - I understood this one). As you are advocating it on yourself, I would assume that you would see electroshock treatment suitable for others as well like your friends, family and everybody found to have no other options.

Consequently it is fair to say, in context of opposing views of the topic where you have taken sides, that you are an electroshock treatment proponent.

 

[sallydannce]

Behold. Electro-cheesecake.

What flavour is the cheesecake please? These things matter to me. Well, jeez, someone had to ask the question! :wink2:

 

[Lone Star]

What flavour is the cheesecake please? These things matter to me. Well, jeez, someone had to ask the question! :wink2:

Uhhhhh....yeah....I'm going to have to ask you to nip the cheesecake derail in the bud. This is a very serious thread about Scientology and people's lives are at stake here....yeah....so if you could just go and ahead and stay on topic that would be grrrrrreat....mmmmkay?

Oh, and I'm gonna need you to be sure and attach a TPS Report to each of your posts. Mmkay? Thaaanks.....

 

[Anonycat]

What flavour is the cheesecake please? These things matter to me. Well, jeez, someone had to ask the question! :wink2:

Frankenberry, and you have to eat it. Now I'll just strap you in ...

 

[Bill]

Consequently it is fair to say, in context of opposing views of the topic where you have taken sides, that you are an electroshock treatment proponent.

Yep. That's the Scientology mindset. Black and white thinking. You are either for us or against us.

I, for instance, am neither an opponent or proponent of psychiatric shock treatment. I would hazard a guess that description applies to just about everyone you think you are arguing with.

You have the wrong context. It isn't black and white. You are trying to make this something it is not. You are putting words in people's mouths because strawmen are so much easier to deal with than real people.

Try, just try to be smarter than your Scientology training has made you.

 

[sallydannce]

Uhhhhh....yeah....I'm going to have to ask you to nip the cheesecake derail in the bud. This is a very serious thread about Scientology and people's lives are at stake here....yeah....so if you could just go and ahead and stay on topic that would be grrrrrreat....mmmmkay?

Oh, and I'm gonna need you to be sure and attach a TPS Report to each of your posts. Mmkay? Thaaanks.....

Focusing now....GOT IT! OKAY! GOOD! THANK YOU! :wink2:

I shall go and read my cheesecake recipes, in some isolated quiet corner of the internet, on my own. Exiled, banished, shunned, spiritually challenged. Exits message board, sniveling.

 

[Leon-2]

Interesting question you have raised. It wasn't hard to figure out.

Let's use an analogy so that a micro-debate about the "tech" doesn't interfere with the common sense conclusion of this little parable.

Okay, let's assume that there is a remote island somewhere ten thousand miles from the nearest land mass. And the inhabitants seem to be doing okay for a couple hundred thousand years, except recently their food supply seems to precariously dwindling.

Now, let's also assume that 100 percent of their food is from farming, rather than fishing, because there are some dangerous predatorial & poison fish in those waters and nobody has ever figured out a way to avoid getting poisoned or eaten.

One day a villager "discovers" an amazing new fishing method that allows the people of the island to solve their food shortages, tapping into the vastly rich oceanic resources and nutrition.

But there is a problem with the new "Fishing Tech". 99% of the people who try it either get devoured by the sharks or poisoned by the species they catch.

Every so often (rarely) a fisherman reports that they caught, cooked and ate a fish that didn't kill them. And that fisherman can't figure out why everybody doesn't embrace, praise or use the wondrous new fishing tech. ​

See my point? LOL

nuts

 

[Anonycat]

Yep. That's the Scientology mindset. Black and white thinking. You are either for us or against us.

I, for instance, am neither an opponent or proponent of psychiatric shock treatment. I would hazard a guess that description applies to just about everyone you think you are arguing with.

You have the wrong context. It isn't black and white. You are trying to make this something it is not.

Try, just try to be smarter than your Scientology training has made you.

I think it's been explained in cult terms, that if one doesn't agree with something, then they don't understand it. That can be medical care, or even a forum.

 

[Leon-2]

I never understood how one could have cognitions and realizations by touching a wall. I blew halfway through Objectives. I wasn't having any "wins" and I figured I'd have to touch that effin wall for days and days. It was torture. Pure psychological horror.

I'd rather be waterboarded.

Well, there you go. You should have had me as your auditor.

 

[Leon-2]

For God's sakes Leon -

YOU TOUCHED A WALL. (That's all)

Why make such a big deal out of it?

Oho no no no no. You hereby join the clueless brigade.

 

[Type4_PTS]

As you said you would hope that the psychiatrist treats you with electroshock therapy under certain circumstances, you are giving consent to be therapeutically electroshocked and thus validating it as a suitable treatment (if doctor says so - I understood this one). As you are advocating it on yourself, I would assume that you would see electroshock treatment suitable for others as well like your friends, family and everybody found to have no other options.

Consequently it is fair to say, in context of opposing views of the topic where you have taken sides, that you are an electroshock treatment proponent.

If someone you loved had severe depression that you felt was life threatening, what are the treatment options that you would consider?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Quit making me hungry, you guys.

 

[Leland]

http://www.sporkorfoon.com/spork_or...bean-cheesecake-with-mixed-berry-compote.html

Vanilla Bean Cheesecake

 

[Lone Star]

Focusing now....GOT IT! OKAY! GOOD! THANK YOU! :wink2:

I shall go and read my cheesecake recipes, in some isolated quiet corner of the internet, on my own. Exiled, banished, shunned, spiritually challenged. Exits message board, sniveling.

Now, now, now....no need to take such drastic action. Lumbergh is just OCD and he can't stand a meandering thread. All bathroom towels have to be hung up neatly and in a perfect row too.

He's only supposed to lurk, but when I wasn't looking he sat down at my computer and posted. I'll make sure to keep a better eye on him.

Mmmmkay?




But then again....I could be Lumbergh....am I Lumbergh?

 

[Leon-2]

In some Eastern belief there are many universes, not physical universes but finer and finer planes of existence that can't be seen with physical vision. On the Astral plane, it is believed that anything you can imagine exists, if you can imagine it you can bring it about on the Astral plane. The Astral plane is vastly larger then the physical universe, as a comparison the physical universe would be like the earth and the Astral would be like all of space. Your explorations may be taking you into this vastness and there, is where you find those mind wowing experiences that you have had. Your freedom grows outward (or inward if you will) as you push your awareness in those directions.

But that is your own personal journey.

Now lets say HH developed a technique that could block your inward journey by a force of his will upon your own. Some deflection caused by his technique that would effectively bring about in you a point of view that the physical world where you are living is made for you to develop a business knowledge and use that to gain financial growth and prosperity. You could take several trips yearly too Maui for golfing and snorkeling or Alaska for salmon fishing trips. This all might seem wonderful to some but you might prefer the inward journey, in fact it might mean so much to you that the financial growth choice would be like dying a slow death to you.

In your CCH's above there seemed to be a softening of the will of the person (the preamble chatting to open the person up) and then the tone 40 command Spoken as a command ( an enforcement of your will upon the person). These techniques seem to require a dominator and a receiver. Why can't these be written out in step by step procedure and given to anyone interested to delve into BY THEMSELVES. If there is any validity to the Eastern belief and there is such a vastness waiting to be explored should anyone that has hardly scratched the surface be leading others through it?

All of that aside, enforcing one's will upon another is never a right of a human being regardless of the intentions of the dominating will. Dominating a will of another is a freedom of choice but only because it can be done. With freedom of choice we need to learn an egoless responsibility and an understanding that ALL individuals have their own right to their own unfoldment.

The parts in red are wrong. It is not an enforcing of my will on the preclear nor is Tone 40 in any way an enforcing of one's will on the other. Big misconception on your part of a very subtle but real difference.

Tone 40 is giving the command with the absolute certainty that the process will work and will produce the desired results.

But note - and LRH emphasizes this in early lectures - it is not some magical thing whereby the preclear changes and has wins because of the auditor's will. It is purely that where an auditor lacks that certainty then that very uncertainty of his will be evident in the tone of his voice and will communicate to the preclear, thereby wrecking the session. This is why it is of fundamental importance that the auditor does have complete confidence in the process.

As an example I can share: There is a process in Scientology - well more than one really, but I give this one as an example - which makes no sense to me at all. I have never understood it or how it works or anything about it, and I have never been able to get a preclear to get gains on it when run on him or her. The process is "From where could you communicate to a victim?' It makes no sense. And yet I have known other auditors who say it is a great process and get wonderful gains on it with their preclears. I have had them explain it to me but I have never grasped it.

That certainty that the process will work is the key, and it can't be bullshitted.

 

[Balthasar]

If someone you loved had severe depression that you felt was life threatening, what are the treatment options that you would consider?

I think the best way to address depression is getting the person to talk about his feelings. Then taking walks in the nature and stay with him until she/he is getting better. You have got to catch the feelings which depress and then let the person immerse in it. That's new age tech, not Scientology. I am sure I could manage somehow.

 

[sallydannce]

Title: Profiteroles in an oven.
Subtitled: Profiteroles explained

Self-imposed banishment re-commencing now...

[Deep down, Sally really wanted to post the full "profiterole photo series", pics of the profiteroles once they were iced, filled, and ready to go. She stayed strong, and refrained from such meaningless, spiritually deficient frivolity. And instead turned up the volume on Buddy Guy.]

 

[Type4_PTS]

I think the best way to address depression is getting the person to talk about his feelings. Then taking walks in the nature and stay with him until she/he is getting better. You have got to catch the feelings which depress and then let the person immerse in it. That's new age tech, not Scientology. I am sure I could manage somehow.

First of all, I didn't just say 'depression'. I said 'severe depression that YOU felt that was life threatening'.

And I didn't ask you what you thought was "the best way to address depression..."

I asked

what are the treatment options that you would consider?

Does the answer you gave include the only treatment options you'd consider?

Has there been any research showing that those methods are successful in treating severe depression?

If the person didn't respond to those methods and was suicidal how would you handle it?

 

[strativarius]

I think the best way to address depression is getting the person to talk about his feelings. Then taking walks in the nature and stay with him until she/he is getting better. [highlight]You have got to catch the feelings which depress and then let the person immerse in it[/highlight]. That's new age tech, not Scientology. I am sure I could manage somehow.

Probably the most idiotic post I have ever seen on ESMB. Your heart might be in the right place Balthasar, and you might have the best of intentions towards your fellow-man, but you're talking bollocks! What you are describing isn't 'new age therapy', it's just simplistic drivel. Get a fucking grip man.

We have all done what you recommend. We've been there for a friend and given them a shoulder to cry on so to speak, put a reassuring arm around their shoulders and gone for a quiet walk with them. It's the least one could do. And the next day their problem is still around. Then what?

 

[Cat Daddy]

https://whyweprotest.net/threads/grant-cardone-thread.120218/#post-2508400