Scientology Indoctrination Abomination - Marty Rathbun's New Post 9-18-14

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Marty's latest blog post

Marty Rathbun said:
There is a specific sector of scientology ‘technology’ that clearly betrays the subject’s hypnotic, mind controlling nature.

That is L. Ron Hubbard’s ‘False Data Stripping’ technology. In short, Hubbard dictates that one identify the source of any data that is getting in the road of a person adopting, with 100% certainty and exclusivity, any datum from scientology’s indoctrination. Hubbard has the practitioner search for the data that conflicts with a datum Hubbard is attempting to get across. The objective is to eradicate the earlier datum utterly so that only Hubbard’s datum remains unopposed.

It's interesting because Marty actually list examples of Hubbard's data that he followed to the T while in the cult, and his refutation of it

Excerpt:


Marty Rathbun said:
Many outsiders have wondered how could such apparently intelligent, cheery – if sometimes overly focused – people as scientologists adopt such Hubbard sociopathy as forced labor re-education concentration camps and dictates to treat critics as ‘fair game’ for personal ruination. I’ll tell you how I did. I was heavily false data stripped. I recall specifically some of those nasty ‘false datums’ that were stripped from my mind through ‘false data stripping technology’ to make me amenable to doing it Ron’s way:

Datum: ‘The most effective form of leadership is to lead by example.’ Wrong. The true scientology data is that it is far more effective, and necessary, to ‘muster bayonets’ as most people are ‘degraded beings’ and it is fruitful sometimes to ‘make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday school teacher.’

Datum: ‘When under attack it is best to take the high road.’ Wrong. When under attack ‘ALWAYS ATTACK…The defense of ANYTHING is UNTENABLE…cause [the attacker’s] professional demise, or if possible, of course, ruin him utterly.’

These are actual examples. They really shouldn’t be needed though to get the point across. It is quite evident from the theory section above where all this might lead.

Read the entire post at his blog

I also think it's interesting to note that a former top poster from here, Alanzo, is now one of the most frequent commenters at Marty's blog. The same Alanzo, who IIRC threw a fit because he thought ESMB was being infiltrated by Marty Rathbun and quit/ got himself banned due to this belief and constant accusations towards Emma and others about being part of a Marty/ Mike Law cabal. Alanzo and Marty constantly compliment and reinforce each other's posts. Quite a change of heart for Alanzo. He almost seems ready to become the president of Marty's fan club.

I also get the feeling, from the personal interplay in the comments, that they are probably privately communicating with each other, maybe even real buddies. (This is totally my personal opinion, I have no proof, just my hunch.) Their views and theories on Scientology seem to be folding into complete agreement with each other and seem to enjoy the interplay on the public comments with each other and tag teaming the Scientologist apologists that still post at his blog.

Who the hell would have ever predicted THAT two years ago??? Amazing.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Marty's latest blog post



It's interesting because Marty actually list examples of Hubbard's data that he followed to the T while in the cult, and his refutation of it

Excerpt:



Read the entire post at his blog

I also think it's interesting to note that a former star poster here, Alanzo, who IIRC threw a fit because he thought ESMB was being infiltrated by Marty Rathbun, now seems to be his very best friend. Alanzo has become one of the most frequent commenters of late at Marty's blog and he and Marty constantly compliment and reinforce each other's posts. Quite an about face from Alonzo, he seems to be the president of Marty's fan club now. I get the feeling, from the personal interplay in the comments, that they are probably privately communicating with each other quite a bit. Their views and theories on Scientology seem to be folding into complete agreement with each other.

Who would have ever predicted THAT two years ago???

:thumbsup:

Oye F'n Vey. :melodramatic:

Marty is working his way through "The Spell" and posting a smidgeon of the stuff, analysis and perspective that's been repeatedly and brilliantly posted by ESMB Members (Haters) over the last 7 years or so and Alanzo is now his Butt Buddy. :eyeroll:
 
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Marty's latest blog post



It's interesting because Marty actually list examples of Hubbard's data that he followed to the T while in the cult, and his refutation of it

Excerpt:




Read the entire post at his blog

I also think it's interesting to note that a former top poster from here, Alanzo, is now one of the most frequent commenters at Marty's blog. The same Alanzo, who IIRC threw a fit because he thought ESMB was being infiltrated by Marty Rathbun and quit/ got himself banned due to this belief and constant accusations towards Emma and others about being part of a Marty/ Mike Law cabal. Alanzo and Marty constantly compliment and reinforce each other's posts. Quite a change of heart for Alanzo. He almost seems ready to become the president of Marty's fan club.

I also get the feeling, from the personal interplay in the comments, that they are probably privately communicating with each other, maybe even real buddies. (This is totally my personal opinion, I have no proof, just my hunch.) Their views and theories on Scientology seem to be folding into complete agreement with each other and seem to enjoy the interplay on the public comments with each other and tag teaming the Scientologist apologists that still post at his blog.

Who the hell would have ever predicted THAT two years ago??? Amazing.

Any BS stripping of scientology is good.
It would be better without trying to dress it up in the unnecessary academic drag of socratic historical precedence (see the article at Marty's) -complete with,
"However, had they looked further, they would have seen that other effects were brought into play." Poor old socrates "and others" did not have Marty around to tweak their academic koolaid.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Any BS stripping of scientology is good.
It would be better without trying to dress it up in the unnecessary academic drag of socratic historical precedence (see the article at Marty's) -complete with,
"However, had they looked further, they would have seen that other effects were brought into play." Poor old socrates "and others" did not have Marty around to tweak their academic koolaid.

:clap:

Personally, I'm not cuttin' Marty, The Seer any slack whatsoever until he Publicly recants and apologizes for all the scurrilous, false and self serving stuff he wrote on his Blog about David Mayo (knowing he couldn't respond) and comes clean re Gerry Armstrong (knowing he could "moderate" out anything Gerry or others had to say). :no:
 
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:clap:

Personally, I'm not cuttin' Marty, The Seer any slack whatsoever until he he Publicly recants and apologizes for all the scurrilous, false and self serving stuff he wrote on his Blog about David Mayo and comes clean re Jerry Armstrong. :no:

I think what you have said is very important.
Time moves on, people change, people review things, attitudes change, but some things are very important. It's important to say "sorry"/and or acknowledge things. It's good that people do not forget until things are really truly settled.
 

shanic89

Patron Meritorious
Personally, I'm not cuttin' Marty, The Seer any slack whatsoever until he Publicly recants and apologizes for all the scurrilous, false and self serving stuff he wrote on his Blog about David Mayo (knowing he couldn't respond) and comes clean re Gerry Armstrong (knowing he could "moderate" out anything Gerry or others had to say). :no:



I think what you have said is very important.
Time moves on, people change, people review things, attitudes change, but some things are very important. It's important to say "sorry"/and or acknowledge things. It's good that people do not forget until things are really truly settled.

I believe this comes with genuine personal growth, the ability to see where you were wrong and more so, the willingness to admit you were wrong. It takes a hell of a lot of courage to say that you were/are wrong in public.

Maybe Marty's ego is just to big for such a thing to happen?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I also think it's interesting to note that a former top poster from here, Alanzo, is now one of the most frequent commenters at Marty's blog. The same Alanzo, who IIRC threw a fit because he thought ESMB was being infiltrated by Marty Rathbun and quit/ got himself banned due to this belief and constant accusations towards Emma and others about being part of a Marty/ Mike Law cabal. Alanzo and Marty constantly compliment and reinforce each other's posts. Quite a change of heart for Alanzo. He almost seems ready to become the president of Marty's fan club.


Who the hell would have ever predicted THAT two years ago??? Amazing.



From a scene in ACULTalypse Now. . .

"Well, you see [STRIKE]Willard[/STRIKE] BunnySkull . . . In this war, things get confused out there, power, ideals, the old morality, practical military necessity. But out there with these natives, it must be a temptation to be god. Because there's a conflict in every human heart, between the rational and the irrational, between good and evil. And good does not always triumph. Sometimes, the dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have one. [STRIKE]Colonel Kurtz[/STRIKE] Alanzo has reached his. And very obviously, he has gone insane."

:giggle:



(forward video: 1:00 -1:33)


[video=youtube;GjB8z0Bvi14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjB8z0Bvi14[/video]​
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think what you have said is very important.
Time moves on, people change, people review things, attitudes change, but some things are very important. It's important to say "sorry"/and or acknowledge things. It's good that people do not forget until things are really truly settled.

How much has changed?
I was initially stunned by it, now not so much.
The same zeal, passion and absolute certainty is there, same goes for the arrogant dismissiveness of others. It is all just pointed in a different direction or a different group.
I suspect that those who offended his ego, regardless of where they fit in the new belief system, will remain people of disinterest.
He has changed his belief system, that is all I can see as a casual observer. He may now have the patience and empathy of a saint for all I know. If so, good for him.

I don't believe people's core characters change and expecting those changes is a bit unfair too. I have only ever seen deep, permanent character changes in people who have suffered a catastrophic brain injury. In terms of spiritual belief system changes, they come ten a penny. Today I am certain of reincarnation and multi deities and tomorrow the catholic mass and vision of God is perfect.
The guy who liked to kick dogs before he found God, still wants to take aim at them, but prays to God to help him not do it when anyone is around to witness it.

I'm rambling. The Christmas Carol and Scrooge is a fiction. I will believe a change has been made when I see or feel a genuine humility. I would like to know if an apology has been given. The details should remain between the parties.
 

Pheryn

Patron with Honors
I believe this comes with genuine personal growth, the ability to see where you were wrong and more so, the willingness to admit you were wrong. It takes a hell of a lot of courage to say that you were/are wrong in public.

Maybe Marty's ego is just to big for such a thing to happen?
Yeeeeah, I don't really see this happening with Marty. There are times when I feel like the only thing that Marty truly regrets is that it was Miscavige that took over and not him.





*Note: This is just a general opinion. I have not read Marty's latest blog entry. I tend to stay away from his blog as it makes my skin crawl.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

I also think it's interesting to note that a former top poster from here, Alanzo, is now one of the most frequent commenters at Marty's blog. The same Alanzo, who IIRC threw a fit because he thought ESMB was being infiltrated by Marty Rathbun and quit/ got himself banned due to this belief and constant accusations towards Emma and others about being part of a Marty/ Mike Law cabal. Alanzo and Marty constantly compliment and reinforce each other's posts. Quite a change of heart for Alanzo. He almost seems ready to become the president of Marty's fan club.

-snip-

Who the hell would have ever predicted THAT two years ago??? Amazing.

Jeez, this is a can of worms I'd rather not open, and I didn't follow this drama very much when it was first occurring and only became aware of it somewhat later, but I will say this much:

Several (3 or even 4?) years ago there was an attempt by a few people, of the then "Independent Scientology" movement, to "handle the ARC broken field." Scientology tech, from "safe pointing," to "covert data collection," and other Scientology tech, was used in this attempt to "handle." At the time, some people noticed this and reacted in various ways, and interpreted it in various ways. Alanzo left ESMB. It was very emotional.

Alanzo returned some time later to this MB (a year and a half ago?) and made the mistake of mentioning this topic and asking questions about it. It's a "radioactive" topic, apparently, and Alanzo was unable to emotionally deal with the bombardment he came under. (Ultimately, he flipped out.)

Over on his blog Marty Rathbun had begun to change his views.

The "Independent Scientology movement," that had been headed by Marty, began to disintegrate.

But the topic of this years-ago attempted "handling of the ARC broken field" by then "Independent Scientologists" still cannot be discussed (rationally), which is kind of sad, but it's just not important enough to fret about.
 
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strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
<snip>
But the topic of this years-ago attempted "[highlight]handling of the ARC broken field[/highlight]" by then "Independent Scientologists" still cannot be discussed (rationally), which is kind of sad, but it's just not important enough to fret about.
Being long-departed from the scn scene, all I have to go on is an overview mainly developed from reading the posts here and elsewhere on the Internet.

There is an 'ARC broken field' in the main I assume ARC broken by the policies of the Miscavige regime in general and the treatment of the missions being one element in particular.

Given that Scientology 'invented' the ARC triangle and a whole bunch of Tech to go with it, one would assume the CofS would be pre-eminently suited to repairing ARC breaks with its parishioners. However, they seem unable or unwilling to do that and appear to be more interested in building a vast property portfolio as a hedge against leaner times in the 'religion business' to come.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I believe this comes with genuine personal growth, the ability to see where you were wrong and more so, the willingness to admit you were wrong. It takes a hell of a lot of courage to say that you were/are wrong in public.

Maybe Marty's ego is just to big for such a thing to happen?

THIS



Marty isn't the only one who so far is not 'big' enough to apologize. I hope he and Alanzo continue to grow together and get to that place . . .
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Marty's latest blog post It's interesting because Marty actually list examples of Hubbard's data that he followed to the T while in the cult, and his refutation of itExcerpt: Read the entire post at his blogI also think it's interesting to note that a former top poster from here, Alanzo, is now one of the most frequent commenters at Marty's blog. The same Alanzo, who IIRC threw a fit because he thought ESMB was being infiltrated by Marty Rathbun and quit/ got himself banned due to this belief and constant accusations towards Emma and others about being part of a Marty/ Mike Law cabal. Alanzo and Marty constantly compliment and reinforce each other's posts. Quite a change of heart for Alanzo. He almost seems ready to become the president of Marty's fan club. I also get the feeling, from the personal interplay in the comments, that they are probably privately communicating with each other, maybe even real buddies. (This is totally my personal opinion, I have no proof, just my hunch.) Their views and theories on Scientology seem to be folding into complete agreement with each other and seem to enjoy the interplay on the public comments with each other and tag teaming the Scientologist apologists that still post at his blog. Who the hell would have ever predicted THAT two years ago??? Amazing.
I am sure that Hubbard was trying to use some form of hypnosis for "data stripping". But no one had achieved data stripping based on hypnosis or any other techniques -- the old data stays and it affects person's thinking, that is why a lot of people went through the Scientology revolving door without staying in the cult for too long. Everything depends on the previous data; for example, people with degrees in science and engineering leave CoS after the initial brief encounter. I met only one person with BS in Mechanical Engineering who stayed in the cult for more than a decade. This was a wishful thinking on Hubbard's part; despite the rumors of being a seazoned hypnotist his knowledge of this field was very limited, that is why he came with all kinds of unworkable theories.
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Marty's latest blog post It's interesting because Marty actually list examples of Hubbard's data that he followed to the T while in the cult, and his refutation of itExcerpt: Read the entire post at his blogI also think it's interesting to note that a former top poster from here, Alanzo, is now one of the most frequent commenters at Marty's blog. The same Alanzo, who IIRC threw a fit because he thought ESMB was being infiltrated by Marty Rathbun and quit/ got himself banned due to this belief and constant accusations towards Emma and others about being part of a Marty/ Mike Law cabal. Alanzo and Marty constantly compliment and reinforce each other's posts. Quite a change of heart for Alanzo. He almost seems ready to become the president of Marty's fan club. I also get the feeling, from the personal interplay in the comments, that they are probably privately communicating with each other, maybe even real buddies. (This is totally my personal opinion, I have no proof, just my hunch.) Their views and theories on Scientology seem to be folding into complete agreement with each other and seem to enjoy the interplay on the public comments with each other and tag teaming the Scientologist apologists that still post at his blog. Who the hell would have ever predicted THAT two years ago??? Amazing.
I am sure that Hubbard was trying to use some form of hypnosis for "data stripping". But no one had achieved data stripping based on hypnosis or any other techniques -- the old data stays and it affects person's thinking, that is why a lot of people went through the Scientology revolving door without staying in the cult for too long. Everything depends on the previous data; for example, people with degrees in science and engineering leave CoS after the initial brief encounter. I met only one person with BS in Mechanical Engineering who stayed in the cult for more than a decade. This was a wishful thinking on Hubbard's part; despite the rumors of being a seazoned hypnotist his knowledge of this field was very limited, that is why he came up with all kinds of unworkable theories.
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
:clap:

Personally, I'm not cuttin' Marty, The Seer any slack whatsoever until he Publicly recants and apologizes for all the scurrilous, false and self serving stuff he wrote on his Blog about David Mayo (knowing he couldn't respond) and comes clean re Gerry Armstrong (knowing he could "moderate" out anything Gerry or others had to say). :no:

Not sure why David Mayo couldn't respond, was it a gagging clause?

But it's a point I've thought about from time to time. It;s easy enough to be angry at the corporate monster that is scientology, but suppose it's only people who are doing bad things to other people.

Personally I don't get why people follow Marty and place such high importance on his opinion. It's embarrassing at times on his blog. But he was part of the problem for so long, and while am glad he's out, I wouldn't trust much of his judgement on, well, much of anything of importance.
 

Gib

Crusader
how history repeats itself.

Mayo left, and saw the light.

cross posted from another tread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...hiona-Fox-Ness&p=967123&viewfull=1#post967123

Key phrase: "during that time period" and "change takes time"

Now we are into another time period.

Mayo was top dog tech wise back in the early 1980's.

Marty was top dog in the 2000's.

Mayo was gagged.

Marty is not gagged.

History repeats itself on people leaving the COS, but methods change on how to get others out.

Back in the 1980's and earlier there was LRH.

After that there is DM. But both are related.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I like Alanzo. He can be very insightful.

People's opinions and viewpoints change over the years. If they didn't, we exes would still be in.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
False data stripping, like ethics conditions is a method, backed by theory. It can be used to enforce Scn. It can be used for other things.

Da wonder husband is trained in it. I had him false data strip me out of an idea I'd read in a book and taken to heart.
Was fine.
 
THIS



Marty isn't the only one who so far is not 'big' enough to apologize. I hope he and Alanzo continue to grow together and get to that place . . .

Alanzo's Saving Souls with Socrates mission
is finally going to get a stat. Who knew that
it would be Marty? Unless Alanzo has already
counted Geir? We in the monkeyseats can
only watch in awe as highly intelligent decompression
happens before our very eyes.
 
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