Scientology is Anti-Human

[well_that_sucked]

Here is a contrary notion.

The same misunderstanding of the concepts of scientology that you use to denigrate it are what are being applied by those "scientologists"?

That people act out of human fault to the detriment of others, that they fail to understand and apply concepts in a manner that would be for the better is not proof of the fallacy of those concepts.

That I am "not compentent enough to distinguish what the philosophy implies," would seem to indicate that you have interpreted scientology in a manner contrary to its stated intent and basic goal.

If you were to "interprete" it based on what it says rather than how it has been applied, you could then distinguish between it and its followers and their actions.

It seems you chose an interpretation that fits your choice of attitude, rather than one that is workable and worthy.

How does one interpret your sociopath of a founders orders to apply Auditing Process R2-45 on sight to a published list of individuals?

A philosophy is not solely defined by its words, but by the results it achieves in the world through its application. The former is PR, the latter the truth.

The cult claims lofty goals through its publications, but its only verifiable product is insanity and inhumanity toward its members by its members.

 

[alex]

Your cult is facing immense global pressure due to organization wide abuses (that you acknowledge), and in your mind the best thing you can do to bring about change is to spew pro cult propaganda on an ex scientologist message board?

That's funny.

I personally don't find it funny at all. I am having a difficult time not being personally insulted by it. While I understand that it has nothing to do with me personally – I take my experiences in the cult of scientology very personally. I am working very hard on my recovery; it strikes me on a personal level whenever I read anything in defense of scientology.
I am simply assuming this is an indication that I have more work to do. That is fine; I never expected to recover over night. It would be nice if there was a certain level of respect when it comes to the posts on this board and the fact that people were harmed and continue to be harmed. Just slapping blinders on and picking out the bits and pieces that you like of scientology and point those points out, does not cancel the abuses or negate the harm being done.
I have asked these questions before and have gotten silence in response to these two questions when asked of alex:
1. Have you read the book Bare-Faced Messiah by Russell Miller
2. (this is personal so I will understand of you do not want to answer) What are your case and training levels?
And a new one:
3. Have you ever read the “Affirmations” written by hubbard – by his own hand?

I would really like to know alex.

I do in fact consider what I post in relation to other peoples experiences and sensibilities. It more affects in what threads I post, and to whom I reply, than my opinions though.

Yes I have read Bare face Mesiah, and for that matter ALL of the critical books except John Dunnigans. (not that I wont, just havent) The first critical book I read was Scientology-the Now Religion in the late 70's. And pretty much anything else both in print and on the web.

I have also read the Red volumes cover to cover. And probably the greenies too....And much else.

I would rather not state my case and training level.

Yes I have read Hubbards affirmations and commented on them here and years ago on ARS.

In the same sense that ignoring abuse is a blinded way to proceed, focusing solely on it is as well blindered.

imo

 

[FinallyFree]

So tell me alex, how do you trust a man who wrote this:

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them. … He's got to tell you lies in order to continue control, because the second you start telling anybody close to the truth, you start releasing him and he gets tougher and tougher to control. So, you can't control somebody without telling them a bunch of lies."

-L. Ron Hubbard, Technique 88 , "On Control and Lying"

This is the person who came up with scientology. These are his words.

 

[alex]

So tell me alex, how do you trust a man who wrote this:

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them. … He's got to tell you lies in order to continue control, because the second you start telling anybody close to the truth, you start releasing him and he gets tougher and tougher to control. So, you can't control somebody without telling them a bunch of lies."

-L. Ron Hubbard, Technique 88 , "On Control and Lying"

This is the person who came up with scientology. These are his words.

I would say that that man is warning me to think for myself and verify what I am told.

I would think that man was trying to give me the skills to avoid being controlled!

The above quote is fundamental to the understanding of scientology. If you fail to examine the data you encounter in life, you WILL suffer.

The whole notion of auditing is going back and examining the data you left uninspected!

Hubbard wasnt saying you should lie or control, but warning how to avoid it!

!!??!!

funny thing context....

 

[FinallyFree]

Here is another quote that I find slightly frightening:

"The goal of the Department [of Government Affairs] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by high level ability to control, and in its absence, by low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies."

-L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 15 August 1960, "Dept. of Govt. Affairs"

 

[alex]

Here is another quote that I find slightly frightening:

"The goal of the Department [of Government Affairs] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by high level ability to control, and in its absence, by low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies."

-L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 15 August 1960, "Dept. of Govt. Affairs"

I believe in government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Not government for its own sake, or the notions of the people hired to administer it.

The right of the church to have goals regarding government and hostile philosophies or societies is not a right to impose itself, but to have influence as a function of representation of its members.

Its power is that of its members, citizens.

I would doubt that you will find any church organization that does not have interest in influencing the government in the interests of its members.

Who is the pr agency for the catholic church in the US and what projects are they currently working on?

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Alex, in the FZ document you referenced: http://www.fzaoint.net/reformer.html


"Fair Game" is mentioned 2 times:

1 and 2 -- Mentioned twice in historical context only, but fair game -- the filthiest aspect of scientology -- nowhere is it called to be banned.


"Harassment" is mentioned 3 times:

1 -- Self servingly addresses the Free Zone's (FZ) "legal harassment by the CofS".

2 -- Says what happens if harassment isn't stopped, but nowhere actually calls to stop it. This sounds similar to the double-speak way that the fair game law was supposedly "outlawed".

3. Calls for, "less harassment" -- so on one hand "The Pilot", who authored this document, doesn't want FZ to be harassed by the cOs -- yet he believes there should be "less" overall harassment in his ideal world -- which of course would leave FZ with the discretion to harass as they see fit. I think The Pilot is a wacko, just like hubbard-ass, and miscaviage.


"Xenu" is mentioned zero (0) times:

Am I to understand that FZ still believes in the Xenu BS that hubbard-ass made up? There was no Xenu, no DC-9's, hydrogen bombs, body thetans, clusters, and none of the rest of the OT-3 BS that hubbard-ass made up. It's all BS, pure BS, hubbard-ass made it all up.


I don't know much about FZ, but from what I'm hearing, I doubt things would be any better with FZ, than filthy-scientology.

There isn't any one FZ. It's just individual practitioners, mostly. Some are somewhat organized and networked- most are not.

Some Freezoners believe in the Xenu story, some don't. And who cares? You really want to equate that with fair game, freeloader debts and all that other stuff that CofS does? Gawd! Nobody has to "ban" anything in the FZ. They just don't do those things. THAT is the "ban".

 

[FinallyFree]

Context Huh? Yeah, thaaaaat's what it is!

I would say that that man is warning me to think for myself and verify what I am told.

I would think that man was trying to give me the skills to avoid being controlled!

The above quote is fundamental to the understanding of scientology. If you fail to examine the data you encounter in life, you WILL suffer.

The whole notion of auditing is going back and examining the data you left uninspected!

Hubbard wasnt saying you should lie or control, but warning how to avoid it!

!!??!!

funny thing context....

Oh really? To warn us? From Hubbard’s “Affirmations”:

“(r) That I tell the truth and must tell the truth. That all past errors and lies are forgotten.”

“You have no urge to talk about your navy life. You do not like to talk of it. You never illustrate
your point with bogus stories. It is not necessary for you to lie to be amusing and witty.”

“Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves. Elemental spirits are your slaves.
You are power among powers, light in the darkness, beauty in all.”

“Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler.”

“No matter what lies you may tell others they have no physical effect on you of any kind. You
never injure your health by saying it is bad. You cannot lie to yourself. Disgust not sympathy is
generated in others by bad health. Injuries are not romantic. They are disgusting in you. You are
a child of God. You are perfect. Health is a passport to friends. Women are not impressed by
your injuries. Clear exuberant good health is your passport to their hearts. Adventure heroes may
sound romantic when injured but it is really a bad comment on their expertness. The truly great
adventurer is so expert he is never injured by anything. Dragging a wing is not romantic, it is
silly. You will always be in wonderful health and well-being.”

“You can tell all the romantic tales you wish. You will remember them, you do remember them.
But you know which ones were lies. You are so logical you will tell nothing which cannot be believed. But you are gallant and dashing and need tell no lies at all. You have enough real experience to make anecdotes forever. Stick to your true adventures. Tell nothing discreditable but tell them well. Or if you wish, as you will, tell adventures which happened to others. People accept them better. You can recall in detail tales of adventure from all you ever heard or read. You remember easily. You can quote for company or a book all the adventure poetry you ever read or heard. You can sing all the songs you ever heard, even once, and sing them well. You have no fear of forgetting or stumbling. You cannot forget stories, songs, tunes, skills and at will can call them consciously to mind.”

 

[FinallyFree]

COME on!

I believe in government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Not government for its own sake, or the notions of the people hired to administer it.

The right of the church to have goals regarding government and hostile philosophies or societies is not a right to impose itself, but to have influence as a function of representation of its members.

Its power is that of its members, citizens.

I would doubt that you will find any church organization that does not have interest in influencing the government in the interests of its members.

Who is the pr agency for the catholic church in the US and what projects are they currently working on?

Yeah - it's the INFLUENCE I am worried about. Again, blinders and picking portions:

"CONTROL such agencies."

-L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 15 August 1960, "Dept. of Govt. Affairs"

 

[well_that_sucked]

So tell me alex, how do you trust a man who wrote this:

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them. … He's got to tell you lies in order to continue control, because the second you start telling anybody close to the truth, you start releasing him and he gets tougher and tougher to control. So, you can't control somebody without telling them a bunch of lies."

-L. Ron Hubbard, Technique 88 , "On Control and Lying"

This is the person who came up with scientology. These are his words.

“You must be willing at all times to control each body coming into your office from the time you bring them from Reception, or if they are brought into the office by someone, right from that point until the final stages of signing the cheque, until they walk out of the door… People are crying out to be controlled.”*

*“Registration”, Hubbard Communications Policy Letter, May 3, 1961. This policy letter, although written by South African Scientologist Sue Van Niekerk, carries an endorsement from Hubbard.

In that PL are instructions on how to deal with people coming into the cult. This PL instructs people to control the public, to lie to them. To use the anti human method of deceit for profit.

Now, ot scientologists believe in body thetans, they have been "controlled" to the point that they believe they can communicate with the souls of dead aliens. That's one whopper of a lie, er I mean a lot of control.

Since to control and to lie are synonyms in scientology, lets see what the PL really meant.

You must be willing at all times to lie to each body coming into your office from the time you bring them from Reception, or if they are brought into the office by someone, right from that point until the final stages of signing the cheque, until they walk out of the door… People are crying out to be lied to.

 

[FinallyFree]

“You must be willing at all times to control each body coming into your office from the time you bring them from Reception, or if they are brought into the office by someone, right from that point until the final stages of signing the cheque, until they walk out of the door… People are crying out to be controlled.”*

*“Registration”, Hubbard Communications Policy Letter, May 3, 1961. This policy letter, although written by South African Scientologist Sue Van Niekerk, carries an endorsement from Hubbard.

In that PL are instructions on how to deal with people coming into the cult. This PL instructs people to control the public, to lie to them. To use the anti human method of deceit for profit.

Now, ot scientologists believe in body thetans, they have been "controlled" to the point that they believe they can communicate with the souls of dead aliens. That's one whopper of a lie, er I mean a lot of control.

Since to control and to lie are synonyms in scientology, lets see what the PL really meant.

You must be willing at all times to lie to each body coming into your office from the time you bring them from Reception, or if they are brought into the office by someone, right from that point until the final stages of signing the cheque, until they walk out of the door… People are crying out to be lied to.

IMO this is how the trap works. It starts with information at you can accept or partially accept. This is, you know, scn version of “job training” – which can be easier to buy into. You get worked on to agree in your own mind and this progresses on and on until you are fed bigger and bigger lies. It is done on a gradient. I also think this is why the “upper levels” remain secret. Not that your “case is ready” but that you haven’t been fed or have accepted the lies leading up to those levels. If your not buying to the lower level stuff you will NEVER buy into the whole Zenu thing. Man – if I had known that story.

 

[alex]

IMO this is how the trap works. It starts with information at you can accept or partially accept. This is, you know, scn version of “job training” – which can be easier to buy into. You get worked on to agree in your own mind and this progresses on and on until you are fed bigger and bigger lies. It is done on a gradient. I also think this is why the “upper levels” remain secret. Not that your “case is ready” but that you haven’t been fed or have accepted the lies leading up to those levels. If your not buying to the lower level stuff you will NEVER buy into the whole Zenu thing. Man – if I had known that story.

I understand you feelings and views. They do make sense.

That is why it is so important to examine everything. To keep the skeptics eye on the stuff that seems unimportant or so easy to accept.

Though notice that you used scientology concepts to express yourself, trap, case, gradient, unexamined data....if those concepts are true enough to be used to express yourself, why are they not true enough to be characterized in less negative ways?

 

[FinallyFree]

I understand you feelings and views. They do make sense.

That is why it is so important to examine everything. To keep the skeptics eye on the stuff that seems unimportant or so easy to accept.

Though notice that you used scientology concepts to express yourself, trap, case, gradient, unexamined data....

Alex, there are no real words to use in place of the made up scientology language. Nice attempt though.

 

[alex]

Alex, there are no real words to use in place of the made up scientology language. Nice attempt though.

All language is made up.

And yes it is entirely possible to eliminate the scientology words and phrases. It does require though a through understanding of the concepts.

In fact I do it frequently in some of my postings to separate the concepts from the stigma of scientology.

Look for it. It is there.

 

[FinallyFree]

All language is made up.

And yes it is entirely possible to eliminate the scientology words and phrases. It does require though a through understanding of the concepts.

In fact I do it frequently in some of my postings to separate the concepts from the stigma of scientology.

Look for it. It is there.

What "stigma"? You mean like there was never any research?:

“Penthouse: Did he write the book off the top of his head? Did he do any real research?

Hubbard: No research at all. When he has answered that question over the years, his answer has changed according to which biography he was writing. Sometimes he used to write a new biography every week. He usually said that he had put thirty years of research into the book. But no, he did not. What he did, reaily, was take bits and pieces from other people and put them together in a blender and stir them all up --and out came Dianetics! All the examples in the book --some 200 "real-life experiences" --were just the result of his obsessions with abortions and unconscious states... In fact, the vast majority of those incidents were invented off the top of his head. The rest stem from his own secret life, which was deeply involved in the occult and black-magic. That involvement goes back to when he was sixteen, living in Washington. D.C. He got hold of the book by Alistair Crowley called The Book of Law. He was very interested in several things that were the creation of what some people call the Moon Child. It was basically an attempt to create an immaculate conception --except by Satan rather than by God. Another important idea was the creation of what they call embryo implants --of getting a satanic or demonic spirit to inhabit the body of a fetus. This would come about as a result of black-magic rituals, which included the use of hypnosis, drugs, and other dangerous and destructive practices. One of the important things was to destroy the evidence if you failed at this immaculate conception. That's how my father became obsessed with abortions. I have a memory of this that goes back to when I was six years old. It is certainly a problem for my father and for Scientology that I rememoer this. It was around 1939, 1940, that I watched my father doing something to my mother. She was lying on the bed and he was sitting on her, facing her feet. He had a coat hanger in his hand. There was blood all over the place. I remember my father shouting at me. "Go back to bed!" A little while later a doctor came and took her off to the hospital. She didn't talk about it for quite a number of years. Neither did my father.”
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.
Penthouse Interview, June 1983

 

[FinallyFree]

Maybe that scientology is really Satanism? :

"Penthouse: You were sixteen years old at that time. What did you believe in?

Hubbard: I believed in Satanism. There was no other religion in the house! Scientology and black magic. What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or, at most, a few weeks. But in Scientology it's stretched out over a lifetime, and so you don't see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology --and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works. Also, you've got to realize that my father did not worship Satan. He thought he was Satan. He was one with Satan. He had a direct pipeline of communication and power with him. My father wouldn't have worshiped anything. I mean, when you think you're the most powerful being in the universe, you have no respect for anything, let alone worship."
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.
Penthouse Interview, June 1983

 

[FinallyFree]

All language is made up.

And yes it is entirely possible to eliminate the scientology words and phrases. It does require though a through understanding of the concepts.

In fact I do it frequently in some of my postings to separate the concepts from the stigma of scientology.

Look for it. It is there.

Your not trying to introvert me are you alex?

Oh darn it - another scientological word. I guess I must have a misunderstood somewhere.

 

[alex]

What "stigma"? You mean like there was never any research?:

“Penthouse: Did he write the book off the top of his head? Did he do any real research?

Hubbard: No research at all. When he has answered that question over the years, his answer has changed according to which biography he was writing. Sometimes he used to write a new biography every week. He usually said that he had put thirty years of research into the book. But no, he did not. What he did, reaily, was take bits and pieces from other people and put them together in a blender and stir them all up --and out came Dianetics! All the examples in the book --some 200 "real-life experiences" --were just the result of his obsessions with abortions and unconscious states... In fact, the vast majority of those incidents were invented off the top of his head. The rest stem from his own secret life, which was deeply involved in the occult and black-magic. That involvement goes back to when he was sixteen, living in Washington. D.C. He got hold of the book by Alistair Crowley called The Book of Law. He was very interested in several things that were the creation of what some people call the Moon Child. It was basically an attempt to create an immaculate conception --except by Satan rather than by God. Another important idea was the creation of what they call embryo implants --of getting a satanic or demonic spirit to inhabit the body of a fetus. This would come about as a result of black-magic rituals, which included the use of hypnosis, drugs, and other dangerous and destructive practices. One of the important things was to destroy the evidence if you failed at this immaculate conception. That's how my father became obsessed with abortions. I have a memory of this that goes back to when I was six years old. It is certainly a problem for my father and for Scientology that I rememoer this. It was around 1939, 1940, that I watched my father doing something to my mother. She was lying on the bed and he was sitting on her, facing her feet. He had a coat hanger in his hand. There was blood all over the place. I remember my father shouting at me. "Go back to bed!" A little while later a doctor came and took her off to the hospital. She didn't talk about it for quite a number of years. Neither did my father.”
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.
Penthouse Interview, June 1983

Nibs later recanted the above. Which time was he lying? Your choice. He had to have been at least once. He was paid for both. Perhaps both times?

 

[alex]

Your not trying to introvert me are you alex?

Oh darn it - another scientological word. I guess I must have a misunderstood somewhere.

I mean to look in my writing for my expression of scientology concepts in "plain language".

I am trying to expand you not cause you to look inward.

Im not as evil as you may think!

 

[FinallyFree]

I mean to look in my writing for my expression of scientology concepts in "plain language".

I am trying to expand you not cause you to look inward.

Im not as evil as you may think!