Scientology is NOT a scam

[Gadfly]

I know that. The unfortunate but undeniable truth is that I often managed to actually help someone using the technology I used. Even today I still am told by escapees how helpful the auditing I gave them was in their lives (the most recent occurrence of this was 3 days ago). Am I to tell them they imagined it? I tell them that it was more down to them than anything I did and that seems to suffice.

I once had this "does it actually help?" discussion with another Auditor here on ESMB. She was saying that she'd never really helped anyone and that she felt guilty about that. I invited her to ask some of her former PCs (many of whom were now out). She was humbled by their gratitude for what she'd apparently done for them.

Sometimes it helps. I believe how much it helps depends on the character of both the Auditor and the PC.

Well, I have also seen auditing help people . . . for real.

I still use contact assists.

I still do spacation drills from time to time.

I can easily see how assists can help ANY person with ANY sort of upset or loss.

I never said that it never helps, or even that some aspects of the methods cannot be truly useful.

That doesn't stop the whole enchilada from being a scam though. Now, as I see it, separate aspects can be used in a context that is not a scam.

I can easily see how people who have left the Church of Scientology could and would benefit greatly from a detailed assist program.

I am not an "it's all black" person.

It is probably never helpful to talk about this vague generality called "Scientology", not without context and qualifying terms.

When I say that Scientology is a scam, what I actually mean is that the whole package deal as presented by the Church of Scientology is setup as, designed as and functions as a SCAM.

Now, in all or at least many other contexts, there are possibilities for the scam aspect to reduce or vanish.

When talking details, one can find useful aspects that by themselves have nothing to do with the larger integrated scam. I suppose that some differentiation is necessary here.

The whole is not just the sum of its parts. It is something a bit different.

 

[Boomima]

I know that. The unfortunate but undeniable truth is that I often managed to actually help someone using the technology I used. Even today I still am told by escapees how helpful the auditing I gave them was in their lives (the most recent occurence of this was 3 days ago). Am I to tell them they imagined it? I tell them that it was more down to them than anything I did and that seems to suffice.

I once had this "does it actually help?" discussion with another Auditor here on ESMB. She was saying that she'd never really helped anyone and that she felt guilty about that. I invited her to ask some of her former PCs (many of whom were now out). She was humbled by their gratitude for what she'd apparently done for them.

Sometimes it helps. I believe how much it helps depends on the character of both the Auditor and the PC.

Given that a lot of it seems to be talking and listening, I can believe that it would help someone if the auditor had the PC's best interests at heart.

 

[He-man]

I know that. The unfortunate but undeniable truth is that I often managed to actually help someone using the technology I used. Even today I still am told by escapees how helpful the auditing I gave them was in their lives (the most recent occurence of this was 3 days ago). Am I to tell them they imagined it? I tell them that it was more down to them than anything I did and that seems to suffice.

I once had this "does it actually help?" discussion with another Auditor here on ESMB. She was saying that she'd never really helped anyone and that she felt guilty about that. I invited her to ask some of her former PCs (many of whom were now out). She was humbled by their gratitude for what she'd apparently done for them.

Sometimes it helps. I believe how much it helps depends on the character of both the Auditor and the PC.

Talking helps, to ease one burden to a listener can do wonders - But it won't make you an OT with unimaginable superpowers.
I felt great talking to my auditor with the few sessions I had, apart from getting sessionable(She was simply too cute for a teenage wonderboy)... But the two thing's doesn't rule out each other.

 

[Panda Termint]

Given that a lot of it seems to be talking and listening, I can believe that it would help someone if the auditor had the PC's best interests at heart.

Yes and most Auditors do.

 

[Panda Termint]

Talking helps, to ease one burden to a listener can do wonders - But it won't make you an OT with unimaginable superpowers.
I felt great talking to my auditor with the few sessions I had, apart from getting sessionable(She was simply too cute for a teenage wonderboy)... But the two thing's doesn't rule out each other.

Lol, I'm talking about helping people. Unimaginable superpowers is amongst the things I listed as scam.

 

[Claire Swazey]

I noticed a continuing repetition of “Scientology is a scam” content.

At first glance Scientology being a scam seemed to be correct, to a certain degree. At the very least, it was not incorrect. Obviously there are many people who didn't get what was promised although they paid money, isn't it?

I for some time thought there would not be much wrong with such a statement until I had one of my 'wait a minute' moments. I thought it through once more and then I changed my mind. Scientology is NOT a scam for the following reason.

One can get his money back after consumption of services.

This refund policy makes Scientology quite unique. I don't know of any free market entity which lets you actually consume their goods and you are allowed to claim refund afterwards if you are not happy. You could even be happy and still claim your cash back.

To make my point and because I am hungry, I will now go downtown and order a double cheese burger with fries, eat it up, perhaps leave a bit to make it more convincing, then return to the counter, complain loudly about the crap and ask for my money back! After that I might become thirsty and decide to drop into the next pub to order a pint or two. Here again I'd expect to get my money back because it might seem the beer wasn't up to my standards. After that the reminder on my phone will ring remembering me that I drop into the shop where I bought my underwear recently. Why not see the manager and request that he'd exchange the one I am wearing right now for a fresh one?

Consumers paradise? Certainly it is! But oddly enough, that's exactly what the refund policy of Scientology would allow you to do.

There might a lot be wrong with Scientology and frankly speaking, I do have my personal issues with this organization and I am out of it since long time. However scam is not one of them. I never considered Scientology to be scamming me. It seemed to me that I always had the choice.

Any ideas why people think Scientology would be a scam?

I have a question for you-- are you still with CofS?

That being said- here's why I think that it is considered to be a scam.

1) The money back guarantee you mentioned. The cult does everything it can not to honor it. The don't want to give back a/p money, let alone do a refund for services already taken. Also, you get expelled if you ask for your money back and that's after a lot of hassle. And they don't even always give the money back.

2) The cult lies about staff work. They do not honor the policies about vacation and sick pay. They threaten anyone who wants to break their staff contract with expulsion. They constantly violate their own policy- Leaving and leaves. And that's the norm- not the exception. Those situations where they do this aren't one offs.

3) The cult imprisons staff and tells them they can't leave. This has happened to many. That's not what policy says. That's not what tech says. But it's what they do and it happens to a lot of people.

Have you read Lawrence Woodcraft's account of what his family experienced? The church totally lied to them about how Scn staff work would be for families.

4) The cult sells courses and books then rereleases them and tells the people to buy them all over again. A lot of clears and OTs have been told they aren't clear after all. Oh well. They've been told that they have to redo all their training because it wasn't GAT. Not only did they do this with the basic books push but they did it with the R&D volumes. People bought them then were told that they were now rereleased and that they should get them again.

5) The cult has policies about not arranging loans and getting into credit card debt. But I've personally seen- and been a party to loan arranging. And it happened with the now infamous Raul Lopez case. They constantly hammer people about maxing out their credit cards. They break their own policies all the time. They're liars.

6) The cult has had fundraiser after fundraiser for building and operations that never came to be.

7) Tech- the claims are exaggerated. Now, I get this, to an extent. You could say, ok, this or that group wants to reach enlightenment, nirvana, whatever and YMMV, it doesn't happen right away, it's a matter of degree. That is true of Scn. Except that Scn doesn't admit it. They tell you that if you are OT such and such, that you WILL achieve a particular state. Now, some of the folks here won't see it this way- but I do think that Scn auditing does do some of what it alleges. But it's not stable, it varies wildly and widely from person to person. And that's not what Hubbard said.

Also on tech lines- Hubbard wrote in the c/s series to the effect that sec checks on OTVII would not be in line with c/s tech, right? But they do have it and they won't stop having it because it's a huge money maker for them AND a way to keep their intel and nannying in on members.

8) The cult claims that it doesn't come between people and their families. But the cult comes between people and their families.

9) coerced abortions- do I really have to explain this one?

10) How many more would you like?

 

[Gadfly]

I think that there is value in various Scientology methods, far more than most critics can accept.

And, I think that the Scientology organization is designed and modeled (by Hubbard) to be a very effective and slick scam, far more than most Scientologists can accept.

I am ducking fast!

Also though, probably the most unrecognized aspect is YOU. What YOU enter into the equation. How much YOU invest of your own life, soul and heart.

Scientology acts as a via and catalyst for some, and while they don't see it that way, and instead focus on the "thing that acts as the via" (Scientology), it is really only the person who breathes life into any venture, system, set of ideas or activity.

There is a method called Kundalini Yoga. One learns about various "energy centers", where they "are", what they represent, and so forth. One accepts and adopts a framework or model of belief. It matters little whether any of it is "real" or not. Then, a person is taught to imagine (visualize and feel) the various energy centers (chakras), and to "do various things to each (mentally using the imagination)".

Many things happen to some. It seems that what happens and how intensely is directly proportionally to how well you accept and understand the model, and how well you "do the imaginative drills". In a very real sense, for many or most self-help methods, what you get out is very much directly proportional to what you put in (of your mind, body, soul and heart). Now personally, I think (have the opinion) each of us is a creative being, and that the imagination is one small aspect of the mind that is not at all understood at this moment of human history. That Scientology addresses and deals with this portion of the mind, while never telling you that fact, is obvious (to me). I think that aspects of it work, when it does, for reasons other than Hubbard said or taught. Maybe he knew and maybe he didn't. :confused2:

Though, Hana Eltringham has said that Hubbard said, "oh, it is ALL hypnosis". And, hypnosis works directly through a part of the human imagination.

 

[Churchill]

You both make good points. But I disagree and here is why.

Everything I did in Scientology I did of my own volition.

Gadfly said, "And, each person is responsible for how they deal with the various forces and pressures "out there" (Scientology being just one of many)."

And that is my point. Call me a stoic on this one, but we were Scientology. And I am not going to say I was only following orders (by the way, it wasn't the SS who said that, they each took a personal oath to Adolph Hitler. It was the other Germans who went along used that as a defense).

I am saying that we were stupid and weak. If I had known then what I know now then I would have never gotten involved.

But that does not absolve me of the stupidity and weakness.

But it wasn't a scam. Calling it a scam is a cop out and is analogous to saying "I was only following orders."

No. I was not following orders, I was leading the charge.

I think calling it a scam is a cop-out (For you people too young to have been a hippie that means taking the easy way out).

No. No brainwashing, no scam, no just following orders.

I was once what I now detest.

The modern explanation of such things is "Well I was duped," or "I was just following orders." Cop-outs.

I was an active member of my own volition with belief in my own integrity and belief in the work-ability of Scientology.

And that is a humbling.

I am not going to fall again for the view or argument that I am special or more intelligent than and that's why now I see what is wrong with Scientology.

That is the argument I accepted for why I got into Scientology in the first place: that I am special or more intelligent than others.

We were duped because it was a scam---we were in Scientology because of the nature of our character.

The Anabaptist Jacques

The things I did, I DID. There are both mitigating and aggravating circumstances attached to these actions.

I may as well have taken a personal oath to Hubbard, and suppose, as a SO member, I did.

I re-ordered my life's priorities to the cult's. I learned how to factor out compassion, mercy, charity, as undesirable traits.

One never wanted to reward a downstat, did one?

TAJ, you are a free to disagree with me, and it's a wonderful thing, because, remember, in the cult we could only disagree to the point of its becoming natter.

In the background loomed the ethics officer, or B-1.

Was the cult ever wrong about anything? Publicly? Technical errors were repaired at the PC's expense, weren't they?

Hubbard's scam was his construct of the infallibility of the subject, and by extension, the organization.

I was NOT merely following orders.

Google "Adolf Eichmann defense" and see that you are incorrect on that point.

I cannot speak to what you did in Scn being all of your own volition. I take you at your word.

All of us are somewhere on the spectrum of sorting it all out, and I believe there's massive evidence of mind control in Scientology.

I'm just glad that you, Gadfly, and so many others have recovered and are speaking out.

 

[Claire Swazey]

Our actions and reactions in the cult were of our own volition- but maybe not...

A lot of the stuff people experience and do in CofS is of their own volition, yes. Maybe they were persuaded, maybe indoctrinated, but they decided to do those things. So when people say that- I totally get it.

But- here are things that happen that aren't voluntarily:

Inward facing spikes at Gold. That prevents people from leaving.

Coercion--
People have been told if they leave staff, they'll get expelled and if they have family in CofS- as is often the case- they won't see them again. To me, coercion isn't of one's volition. And that's happened with abortions and disconnection.

What about the coercion shown to Maria Pia Gardini? They slapped her on the face!!! PHYSICAL INTIMIDATION! Well, hard to call it voluntary if someone, you know, like beats you or hits you or threatens you.

People have written that they had to sneak away. I think Petey wrote about that. I know others have. How, then, were they (prior to their escape) staying voluntarily? If you have to escape when nobody can see you, if you have to lie or trick your way so that you can leave, then you were NOT there of your own volition.

There're other examples.

 

[Idle Morgue]

I know that. The unfortunate but undeniable truth is that I often managed to actually help someone using the technology I used. Even today I still am told by escapees how helpful the auditing I gave them was in their lives (the most recent occurence of this was 3 days ago). Am I to tell them they imagined it? I tell them that it was more down to them than anything I did and that seems to suffice.

I once had this "does it actually help?" discussion with another Auditor here on ESMB. She was saying that she'd never really helped anyone and that she felt guilty about that. I invited her to ask some of her former PCs (many of whom were now out). She was humbled by their gratitude for what she'd apparently done for them.

Sometimes it helps. I believe how much it helps depends on the character of both the Auditor and the PC.

I go to a Chiropractor with horrible back pain...can't walk well and am in constant pain. They adjust me and I feel great! Do I owe my entire bank account, my children, my IRA, my Stock Portfolio to the Chiropractor? Should I join the Chiro's team and sign a 1 billion year contract to help others get out of pain in exchange for NOTHING but knowing I helped?

NO! That would be insane. But Scientology expects this out of its members. In fact, the scale goes from "helping you" slowly to "giving everything you have to the CULT and you don't deserve to have any goals or dreams!!

I left because Scientology failed to help me with my dreams and made my life worse, not better - overall!

It was painful getting out of the mind fuck - they owe me all of my money back and everyone else too! Pay the Sea Org $20 per hour for every hour worked and make up the damage or Scientology will go to hell in a handbasket! The evil cult that takes and gives nothing in return!

Scientology scams people from normal cognitions they would have gotten studying other philosophies and religions (copied by Hubbard and made up by other's - not Hubbard, but $OLD by $ciendollartry!

That is how insane this "religion" is! The Cult expects people to give and give and give because they realized something that helped them. They give nothing back in exchange but "think" they do!

 

[Gadfly]

Re: Our actions and reactions in the cult were of our own volition- but maybe not...

A lot of the stuff people experience and do in CofS is of their own volition, yes. Maybe they were persuaded, maybe indoctrinated, but they decided to do those things. So when people say that- I totally get it.

But- here are things that happen that aren't voluntarily:

Inward facing spikes at Gold. That prevents people from leaving.

Coercion--
People have been told if they leave staff, they'll get expelled and if they have family in CofS- as is often the case- they won't see them again. To me, coercion isn't of one's volition. And that's happened with abortions and disconnection.

What about the coercion shown to Maria Pia Gardini? They slapped her on the face!!! PHYSICAL INTIMIDATION! Well, hard to call it voluntary if someone, you know, like beats you or hits you or threatens you.

People have written that they had to sneak away. I think Petey wrote about that. I know others have. How, then, were they (prior to their escape) staying voluntarily? If you have to escape when nobody can see you, if you have to lie or trick your way so that you can leave, then you were NOT there of your own volition.

There're other examples.

Most of the time it is mental and emotional coercion and intimidation.

I am not saying it is okay or right, but only that in fact, nobody is standing there with a gun physically forcing you to stay.

Many don't leave the Sea Org because they are stuck deeply in their own fundamentally self-created beliefs and ideas about Scientology. The person can be controlled with threats of disconnection, because he truly fears that he or she will lose his or her chance at Total Freedom! Many believe it so hard, that Scientology is the ONLY endeavor on Earth that can provide one's "eternity", that these people will happily report to the RPF and even "the Hole" to have a chance at "rehabilitation" and "redemption".

Hubbard knew exactly what he was doing. He explains very well how any person is trapped by his or her own agreements, postulates and considerations. And then while telling you that, while teaching you all about that, he at the same time foisted upon you an immense system of agreements, postulates and considerations rooted in the Scientology paradigm! He told you how one can be trapped by ones OWN IDEAS & BELIEFS, and Scientology even provided a way to ERASE various past agreements, postulates and considerations (through auditing). But then, he saddled each follower with an intricate and very involved system of NEW agreements, postulates and considerations.

The largest trap and coercion part of Scientology involves the person's OWN belief system. That is not said to minimize this factor in any way. It is formidable.

For example, when my daughter was trying to route out of the Sea Org at a tender age of 18, which she had been brought up in since birth, she was told over and over these things:

1. The wog world is bad, suppressive, scary and dangerous.

2. Only DBs route out of the Sea Org.

3. They constantly evaluated that she must be out-ethics, PTS or an SP to want to leave.

4. They pushed various buttons such as, "how can let us and LRH down"?

See, if she had no agreement with all of these ideas, she could have waked right out the door without a second thought. But, she had been deeply infected with these ideas her entire life! It can be so tough for the children who were brought up in the Sea Org.

My point is that the mental and emotional threats and coercion ONLY works when you AGREE with the ideas. In a very real sense, one makes his or her OWN mental prison by adopting various ideas, notions and beliefs. Also though, one can adopt uplifting and positive ideas and values, which can have a "freeing" effect.

Granted, over the years threats of physical coercion and duress have appeared more. These are not the norm, not when compared to the constant and excessive mental and emotional coercion, but the fact that all the Sea Org facilities have fences and gates to keep members INSIDE speaks volumes.

 

[Panda Termint]

I go to a Chiropractor with horrible back pain...can't walk well and am in constant pain. They adjust me and I feel great! Do I owe my entire bank account, my children, my IRA, my Stock Portfolio to the Chiropractor? Should I join the Chiro's team and sign a 1 billion year contract to help others get out of pain in exchange for NOTHING but knowing I helped?

NO! That would be insane. But Scientology expects this out of its members. In fact, the scale goes from "helping you" slowly to "giving everything you have to the CULT and you don't deserve to have any goals or dreams!!

I left because Scientology failed to help me with my dreams and made my life worse, not better - overall!

It was painful getting out of the mind fuck - they owe me all of my money back and everyone else too! Pay the Sea Org $20 per hour for every hour worked and make up the damage or Scientology will go to hell in a handbasket! The evil cult that takes and gives nothing in return!

Scientology scams people from normal cognitions they would have gotten studying other philosophies and religions (copied by Hubbard and made up by other's - not Hubbard, but $OLD by $ciendollartry!

That is how insane this "religion" is! The Cult expects people to give and give and give because they realized something that helped them. They give nothing back in exchange but "think" they do!

Apples and Oranges. Did the Chiropractor scam you after fixing your back? Is the back-fix a scam? Of course not!

I'm simply pointing out that there are good people in scientology who truly believe in what they're doing and proposing a simple reason (helping others) for why they believe this.

See post #128 http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-is-NOT-a-scam&p=861897&viewfull=1#post861897

 

[Gadfly]

Apples and Oranges. Did the Chiropractor scam you after fixing your back? Is the back-fix a scam? Of course not!

I'm simply pointing out that there are good people in scientology who truly believe in what they're doing and proposing a simple reason (helping others) for why they believe this.

See post #128 http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-is-NOT-a-scam&p=861897&viewfull=1#post861897

I am curious. Do you mean "in the Church of Scientology"?

Do you mean, "involved with some aspect of Scientology but separate from the organized Church of Scientology"?

Do you mean all of the above?

There is FAR more to the picture of Scientology though than these two factors of 1) believing in what you are doing, and 2) justifying this belief because you have the notion that you are helping others. If it were only THAT simple.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

BINGO!

Each of them are true. Two sides to the same coin.

Sorry, That is a typo on my part. I meant to say we were NOT in because it was a scam---we were in because of our character.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Who is saying that it is ONLY a "scam"? :confused2:

I have often talked about HOW it is a scam, but also how the psychology of any person relates to and influences his or her decisions and actions in relation to that scam.

Each is a specific aspect of how and why Scientology affects people. There is "it", and then there is "you". Each factors in.

I agree, anyone who BLAMES Scientology as the total cause of all their own failings is . . . failing to confront the larger picture.

I have very much, in the past, looked into what it was about myself that set me up, lured me and kept with with Scientology. I wwas able to write about the Three Scientology Beliefs, because FIRST, I saw how it operated in MYSELF.

It takes two to tango. Always. The Yin cannot be separated from the Yang. Granted, some or many of us tend to focus upon and give exaggerated attention and weight to one or the other.

It is my own character that evolves over time. That may be the ONLY thing I carry forward when I leave this physical body. Scientology is just a meaningless wrinkle in the fabric of eternity from the view of my evolving character.

I am saying it is not a scam. Don't add to that.

I am saying that I was in Scientology because of my character.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Gib]

Sorry, That is a typo on my part. I meant to say we were NOT in because it was a scam---we were in because of our character.

The Anabaptist Jacques

yah, I guess so,

but the scam

promised your character it was true.



take away the scam,

words of wisdom from LRH,

would your character follow along the path to "total freedom"?

I luv the super hero movies

Superman, Spiderman, The Hulk (he's my favorite, as the madder he gets the stronger he gets, but underneath it all he, the Hulk see's the good guy from the bad guy), Iron Man, the X-men, Riddick, etc.

and I would luv to be one of them,

but it ain't possible, nor

is "clear" or "ot" - supermen/superwomen

 

[Panda Termint]

I am curious. Do you mean "in the Church of Scientology"?

Do you mean, "involved with some aspect of Scientology but separate from the organized Church of Scientology"?

Do you mean all of the above?

There is FAR more to the picture of Scientology though than these two factors of 1) believing in what you are doing, and 2) justifying this belief because you have the notion that you are helping others. If it were only THAT simple.

I don't really understand what you're asking me here, Gadfly. My only experience with scientology is within the CofS.

I'll attempt to further clarify what I mean, though. I'm just stating a very simple thing; that there are people in the CofS who are good, well-intentioned people who sincerely believe that they are helping themselves and others through their adherence to the scientological Belief System. They have little or no understanding of the scamology aspects of that practice. When they catch glimpses of some scamology aspect they either pretend not to have noticed or begin the long journey out of scientology.

The idea (and, quite often, observation) that they can/have/will help themselves and others by applying Hubbard's Tech is one of the more powerful sticking points, IMO.

For a great many scientologists it IS that simple.

 

[Gadfly]

Sorry, That is a typo on my part. I meant to say we were NOT in because it was a scam---we were in because of our character.

The Anabaptist Jacques

That's too bad. As I see it you are focusing on only HALF of the picture. Granted, in the end your half is probably MORE important in the grand scheme of things.

Without the lures, all the promises, all the idealistic exaggerations, and all of the control mechanisms of Scientology, your "character" would have had NOTHING to "bounce off of". You (and your character) do NOT operate in a vacuum. Your character responds to various external situations, though I would say that it might be true that we attract from the Universe exactly the type of external situation that will help our unique individual character to best grow, mature and develop.

Take a simple case like a sunset. It is just a "prop", but it does have its own form, substance, behavior and so forth. You interact with it and have an experience, that while based partially in the external thing or event, is also largely based on you and depends upon WHO and WHAT "you are". Some people see nothing, and some have a near religious experience viewing the SAME sunset. There IS something else there besides you - all is not entirely subjective. And, while it may be true that one is ultimately responsible for ones own condition, again based and rooted in this thing called "character", various scenarios must exist for you to interact with.

Again, it takes two to tango. It really amazes me that you don't see that. While ones character is probably the root and key of ones Karma, if we exist along any grand extended span of time spanning this and other lifetimes, a character must and odes interact with all sorts of things, events, people and situations that ARE WHAT THEY ARE. Your character is not the SOLE factor, though yes, it is most surely a MAJOR factor. I do agree that what you attract and how you deal with these things is rooted in WHO you are at the deepest levels (as "character").

I suspect we agree more than we appear to not. And, maybe not.

"Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."

 

[Gadfly]

I don't really understand what you're asking me here, Gadfly. My only experience with scientology is within the CofS.

I'll attempt to further clarify what I mean, though. I'm just stating a very simple thing; that there are people in the CofS who are good, well-intentioned people who sincerely believe that they are helping themselves and others through their adherence to the scientological Belief System. They have little or no understanding of the scamology aspects of that practice. When they catch glimpses of some scamology aspect they either pretend not to have noticed or begin the long journey out of scientology.

The idea (and, quite often, observation) that they can/have/will help themselves and others by applying Hubbard's Tech is one of the more powerful sticking points, IMO.

For a great many scientologists it IS that simple.

I don't think it is ever that simple.

There are so many other related factors such as:

Salvaging this sector.

Handling the 4th Dynamic Engram.

Reversing the Dwindling Spiral.

Clearing the Planet.

Securing ones eternity.

Creating a Safe Environment.

And on and on for an immense long string of VERY VAGUE and INCREDIBLY INDISTINCT & UNCLEAR concepts and ideas.

There are the ideas and theories of SPs, and how the anti-social personality will naturally abhor "good and wonderful Scientology".

The list of ancillary weird notions and concepts is nearly endless, and just about EVERY Scientologist I ever knew entertained no small amount of them.

The intense indoctrination of Scientology, especially for staff and Sea Org, involves FAR more than the aim to help and a trust ion the workability of auditing.

 

[Panda Termint]

Sure, there is no shortage of weird notions. They all hinge on the Help button. That's why it's one of the most basic things to be gotten in. The 2 most VITAL "buttons" in scientology indoctrination are Help and Control. Everything else stems from that.